Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

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Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
We american's are quite tired of constantly being forced to reinforce europe over and over again. If a nuclear armed Poland means we can finally leave the people of europe to defend themselves and we can go back to using that money to fix the numerous problems at home that is a fucking win in my book.
Given how Poland had flipped from a Poliglot oligarchy bent on expansion to a dysfunctional oligarchy that makes every single one of its neighbors thirsty I think a nuclear armed Polish ethnostate will be the best outcome for all of Europe.
Not thirsty Krauts and other neighbors will dare pull stupid shit.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
France, Israel, India, Pakistan, North Korea, China, the former USSR all did not give a damn about what you think of them having nukes, why do you think Poland should?
I think that they will calm down once they have a few and this will gradually improve their relations with their bigger neighbors.

Hint: half the countries you listed were already nuclear powers on their own before the non-proliferation treaty was signed., and the other half were borderline-nuclear and again, achieved it on their own. Poland has nuclear technology because the United States *gave* them civilian nuclear technology, which puts them in an entirely different category and means there must be significant consequences if they take advantage of that to violate the NPPT.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Under the terms of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, the United States and other existing nuclear powers share civilian nuclear technology specifically to stem the proliferation of military nuclear technology. Poland and other non-nuclear powers should be stopped from developing any military nuclear capability by any means necessary.
Fucking lol, you actually think the NPT is still worth the paper it was written on.

NPT was put on life-support with what we did to Qaddafi, and it died when Russia began invading Ukraine in 2014, and the coffin was buried when Putin launched the full scale invasion last year.

Soon the developed world will consist of nations that either openly have nukes, or have nukes in the basement. NPT is dead, so it holds no argumentative weight any longer.
Are you sure Trump had to give anything? Poland has been running small reactors since the late 1950s. And still has one:
Huh, had been lead to believe all the Polish nuclear attempts had been dismantled diplomatically, or covertly, by the Soviets or the West respectively before now.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Hint: half the countries you listed were already nuclear powers on their own before the non-proliferation treaty was signed., and the other half were borderline-nuclear and again, achieved it on their own. Poland has nuclear technology because the United States *gave* them civilian nuclear technology, which puts them in an entirely different category and means there must be significant consequences if they take advantage of that to violate the NPPT.
Hint, the USA, Britain and France managed to do it with tech that is over 80 years out of date, at a time when they were pressed for resources.
Israel was also in a constant fight for its survival when it did and Korea is a hermit kingdom shithole.

A few dozen nukes with hidrogen isotope booster/stage to make them into full blown H-bombs should be fairly easy for Poland even if they do not breed the fissionable materials in a US reactor.

They could get the ore from the Czech Republic or maybe Romania.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Hint: half the countries you listed were already nuclear powers on their own before the non-proliferation treaty was signed., and the other half were borderline-nuclear and again, achieved it on their own. Poland has nuclear technology because the United States *gave* them civilian nuclear technology, which puts them in an entirely different category and means there must be significant consequences if they take advantage of that to violate the NPPT.
India, Pakistan, isreal, North Korea arnt covered by the NPT
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Id like to note that since Russia is expanding because of historical claims that Poland has a better claim to that Exclave then Russia does. As does Germany and Lithuania. Since germany surrendered that claim....
Only because the Russians gave the Third Reich the mother of all lube-free anal pounding and because Russia is a larger country than Germany in both land and population and military capabilities, including huge amounts of nukes.

Don't forget that that particular place is one of the reasons why the Germans wanted to take Poland.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Only because the Russians gave the Third Reich the mother of all lube-free anal pounding and because Russia is a larger country than Germany in both land and population and military capabilities, including huge amounts of nukes.

Don't forget that that particular place is one of the reasons why the Germans wanted to take Poland.

It would be nice for Poland to have another port would it not? After all the ocean is polands single best neighbor.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Under the terms of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, the United States and other existing nuclear powers share civilian nuclear technology specifically to stem the proliferation of military nuclear technology. Poland and other non-nuclear powers should be stopped from developing any military nuclear capability by any means necessary.
Why you want to make imperialism easier?
 

DarthOne

☦️
Yeah, I kinda doubt the Krauts will like that.
Sure, they are pussies now, but at some point they will flip out and revert to their old ways.
If you mean ‘not being self hating and self destructive and going more in line with the German Empire cultural and ethnically without going Full Retarded (aka Nazi)’ then I am all for it.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
If you mean ‘not being self hating and self destructive and going more in line with the German Empire cultural and ethnically without going Full Retarded (aka Nazi)’ then I am all for it.
I want to see the modern-day Germany dismantled and maybe something like the German Confederacy from before restored.
Preferably without the total productive capacity of the entire thing diminishing but with their ability to fuck over the entirety of Europe being diminished.
 

DarthOne

☦️
I want to see the modern-day Germany dismantled and maybe something like the German Confederacy from before restored.
Preferably without the total productive capacity of the entire thing diminishing but with their ability to fuck over the entirety of Europe being diminished.
If not them then the British. Or the French. Or the Spanish. Or the Turks. Or the Poles. Or the Russians. Or…
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
If not them then the British. Or the French. Or the Spanish. Or the Turks. Or the Poles. Or the Russians. Or…
They have the habit of doing their Drang nach Osten periodically, and they are massively sanctimonious, with their language sounding like a shredder choking on aluminum cans.

Sure, the French are chauvinistic pompous pricks, but they are:
1) Not as lemming-like and obsessive-compulsive as the Krauts.
2) Have an actually decent culture as opposed to the slop the Krauts produce.
3) Are farther away than the Krauts and can play with them and stay away from eastern Europe.

Of course, if they get too big for their breeches it will be nice to see France fragment some, too.
 
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Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
Anyways, back to our regular programming:

Thanks for the little investigative exercise, it was easy - of course by regular programming you meant certified Russia shilling, and i was not disappointed.
The "Conflicts Forum" founded by Crooke 2004,[6] has been a consistent advocate for the protection of the Assad regime in Syria, [12][13] in spite of the extensively documented war-crimes and other atrocities it committed against the Syrian population. These include the use of poison gas to kill civilians, which was verified by the United Nations.[14] Thus, Aisling Byrne, a projects coordinator for the "Conflicts Forum", has dismissed documentation of systematic torture used by the Assad regime as 'a deliberate and calculated campaign to bring down the Assad government'.[15] This advocacy of the Assad regime, has led to criticism by Syrian human rights activists, who describe the Conflicts Forum as being "beyond redemption because they have knowingly chosen to adopt a stance that is at variance with the truth.".[16]

Crooke makes frequent appearances on Hezbollah affiliated Al Mayadeen television network. In one such appearance, Crooke vocally defended the policies of Russian president Vladimir Putin vis a vis the Ukraine, and accused NATO of desiring to escalate the conflict.[17]

His book Resistance: The Essence of the Islamist Revolution,[6] provides background on what he calls the "Islamist Revolution" in the Middle East, helping to offer strategic insights into the origins and logic of Islamist groups which have adopted military resistance as a tactic, including Hamas and Hezbollah.[citation needed]
Ex-diplomat who went into the business of shilling those who wouldn't be shilled for free or in more respectable and expensive manners. Mostly Hezbollah (he lives in Lebanon) but guess Putin and Assad got his shilling as a tie-in bonus with their Iran alliances.
He also writes a lot for a site that actually got itself sanctioned by USA for being a SVR psyop.
The US treasury has imposed sanctions on the three outlets identified by the UK authorities. It has also taken action against at least nine others, five of which have been targeted with sanctions since the Ukraine invasion. One of the websites sanctioned by the US is the Strategic Culture Foundation, which describes itself as a "platform for extensive analysis on Eurasian and global affairs".

The website has cited Russian claims of a "covert project" to turn Ukraine into a nuclear power. One of its authors also claimed the novichok poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury in March 2018 was likely to be a British "false flag" operation to "incriminate, demonise and delegitimise Russia".

The US treasury describes the website as an online journal registered in Russia which is directed by the country's foreign intelligence service. It states: "It publishes conspiracy theorists, giving them a broader platform to spread disinformation, while trying to obscure the Russian origin of the journal so that readers may be more likely to trust the sourcing."
 

DarthOne

☦️
Thanks for the little investigative exercise, it was easy - of course by regular programming you meant certified Russia shilling, and i was not disappointed.

Ex-diplomat who went into the business of shilling those who wouldn't be shilled for free or in more respectable and expensive manners. Mostly Hezbollah (he lives in Lebanon) but guess Putin and Assad got his shilling as a tie-in bonus with their Iran alliances.
He also writes a lot for a site that actually got itself sanctioned by USA for being a SVR psyop.
Yes, because the US government has never, ever lied about stuff or used it’s authority to stifle inconvenient truths that run counter to the narrative it wishes to push.

Nope.

Not once.
 
That's not a professional diagnosis, but the sheer level of warped perspective he demonstrates is pretty clear.

Like you. I think you're wrong about almost everything on politics, but you have some semblance of internal consistency to your thought, and are capable of recognizing something is literally physically true.

Terthna, I disagree with about what happened in Ukraine in 2014, and he is more distrustful of the Ukrainian government than I am, but he still recognizes the war is a horrible thing, and Russia has committed atrocities during it.

But History Learner?

He will reference one image on Twitter from a year or two ago that claims Ukraine was producing millions of artillery shells for Russia, and claim it's definitive proof that Russian military industrial capacity utterly overwhelms not just Ukraine's, but also the West's.

Yes, that's right, he will quote that Ukrainian industry that used to supply the Russians, is proof that current Russian industrial capacity outstrips Ukrainian capacity.

He is a very clear case of the thought process where once he's made up his mind, all data, information, references, sources, etc, will be interpreted in as warped a way as necessary to support that conclusion. If a source supports his conclusion, it's good. If it doesn't, it's bad. If it says things that partially support and partially oppose it, then it's a definitive trustworthy source in one part, and utterly untrustworthy deceit in the other.

Further, he kept coming back and humiliating himself with shit arguments month after month after month, and treating past rounds of argument about Ukraine that he'd lost like arguments he'd won. When people pointed out he was full of shit, he'd bring up the exact same articles and talking points he had before, and people would point out that even his own sources contradicted his points a lot of the time, and he'd just ignore that.

It's fairly clear that at some point Agent23 just is trying to amuse himself by poking others. Some people, like me, have a harder time letting go of arguments on the internet than we should. Some people, like Marduk, are just implacable and will hammer you with the same points and arguments over and over again because they don't know any other way to be.

But History Learner, his behavior was pathological. To the level where I'm genuinely worried about his mental health, and suspect he has a serious habit of sabotaging his own IRL relationships, and his periodically returning to this forum in spates of activity is related to him burning out his IRL relationships for a while.

It's hard enough to deal with someone who absolutely refuses to admit they're wrong. People who will actively warp their perception of reality to service their wrong conclusions, who will unflinchingly step further and further into self-delusion every time evidence piles up that they're wrong?

They aren't just hard to deal with, they're outright dangerous. And usually come to tragic ends, often total social isolation and living in a proverbial basement as they concoct more and more elaborate conspiracy theories rather than admit they were ever wrong about anything.


I'm curious...what's your opinion on my sanity level?
 
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