Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

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ATP

Well-known member
This is really funny given the President at the time was both a member of PiS and the literal twin brother of the current leader of PiS.



Given your statements above, it seems the same Russian supporters are still in power, no?

Poor ignorant,President belonged to PIS ,and was in opposition to Donald Tusk /PO/ who was,and stil is,owned by germans.
Maybe that is why he was killed.

And no,there is no soviet supporters in Poland anymore - we have:
PIS - they were ALWAYS anti-soviets.Now,belive in dream about Holy USA.Idiots.
PO - german party,support soviets becouse germans ordered them so
Lewica - mix of old commies who serve whoever pay them and modern leftists
PSL - formally agrarian,in reality serv whoever pay better.
Konfederacja - Korwin was pro-soviet,but was kicked lately,they are both anti-soviet and anti-german now.And do not trust ukrainians and USA.
Only sensible party in Poland.Pity,that they never get power.
 

History Learner

Well-known member
Poor ignorant,President belonged to PIS ,and was in opposition to Donald Tusk /PO/ who was,and stil is,owned by germans.
Maybe that is why he was killed.

Except that's not what you originally said:

Poor naive child.There was no reconciliation,german party ruling in Poland/PO/ did what germans wanted.
They acted as german puppets,not polis politicians.

The party ruling at that time was PiS, not Tusk, as you yourself noted by saying here Tusk was in opposition and thus not President.

And no,there is no soviet supporters in Poland anymore - we have:
PIS - they were ALWAYS anti-soviets.Now,belive in dream about Holy USA.Idiots.
PO - german party,support soviets becouse germans ordered them so
Lewica - mix of old commies who serve whoever pay them and modern leftists
PSL - formally agrarian,in reality serv whoever pay better.
Konfederacja - Korwin was pro-soviet,but was kicked lately,they are both anti-soviet and anti-german now.And do not trust ukrainians and USA.
Only sensible party in Poland.Pity,that they never get power.

Is that why almost 50% of the Sejm didn't vote on the resolution declaring Russia a state sponsor of terror?
 
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Batrix2070

RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
Except that's not what you originally said:
The party ruling at that time was PiS, not Tusk, as you yourself noted by saying here Tusk was in opposition and thus not President.
Is that why almost 50% of the Sejm didn't vote on the resolution declaring Russia a state sponsor of terror?
Well "Historyczku" I will explain to you as simply as possible so that you understand how badly you have twisted what happened.

The SLD (Democratic Left Alliance), i.e. post-communists pretending to be social democrats, ruled until October 2005. As a result of being a typical left-wing bunch, they eventually aborted the 2005 elections for both president and parliament.

In both, PiS won, but was immediately followed by PO. PiS itself was and is known for its anti-Russianism. The first Western politician to arrive in Georgia during the 2008 war was PiS-appointed president Lech Kaczynski, and Kaczynski himself was a de facto foreign policy rival to the foreign minister.
PO, which was already in power at the time, less willing to go anti-Russian and spoke empty platitudes about peace talks, which was an important signal of what would happen later.

But coming back, after winning the elections, PiS had to look for a coalition partner because it did not have a direct majority. Originally, it was supposed to be PO, but PO torpedoed the plans just before election day and Tusk spoke out strongly against it.

As a result, PiS was forced to look for new coalition partners and, in practice, for two years was more preoccupied with holding on to power than with real action, while PO, together with most of the opposition, rode roughshod over the ruling party. Eventually there were early elections in 2007 in which PO went to many undignified lengths in its election propaganda. Ultimately, these elections were lost by PiS and it went into opposition with only the president.

PO quickly and effectively built a governing coalition with the PSL and then, when it won, it began the so-called "cotton-picking", i.e. the elimination of PiS from the normal political game, most simply compared to what the Democrats are trying to do with Trump and the MAGA Republicans, only more brazenly.

When the US-Russia reset happened it was PO, not PiS, that was the party acting pro-Russian, they were so pro-Russian that they agreed to an eminently unfavourable deal for Poland with Gazprom that it was only the actions of the EU that turned the issue on its head and gave Poland a much better deal.

Until the death of President Kaczyński, he was in conflict with the government because, like PiS, he was anti-Russian and looked unfavourably on Tusk's and his party's affinity with the Russians.

And most importantly, in Poland the president is not as important as for example in France or the USA, despite a constitution that tries to make him the centre, de facto power is held by an unelected prime minister answering only to his coalition in the Sejm. That the president was from PiS is one thing, that the foreign minister was from Po is another. And they both got in each other's way, Kaczyński going against Russia, Sikorski going with Russia.

And the PO's attitude towards the ex-president is well illustrated by a malicious joke called "Kaczka* Smolensk-style" uttered by the cultural background of the ruling party.

*The name in question is Kaczynski, which can be maliciously shortened to Kaczor which means Duck.
 
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Buba

A total creep
To add to Batrix's post - Poland's Constitution is poorly written garbage, with much ambiguity in wording and phrasing. Foreign Policy is one of the more glaring examples of the text being unclear as to "who can do what".
 

ATP

Well-known member
Except that's not what you originally said:



The party ruling at that time was PiS, not Tusk, as you yourself noted by saying here Tusk was in opposition and thus not President.



Is that why almost 50% of the Sejm didn't vote on the resolution declaring Russia a state sponsor of terror?

1.You do not read my post.PIS ruled from 2005 till 2007,later was replaced by german PO.President was from PIS,but,since he do not have any power,PO was doing what germans wonted.
And,germans as soviet allies ALWAYS wanted cooperation with Moscov.

So,it was not Poland who wanted agreement with soviets,but german agents in Poland.

2.part of Sejm do not supported anti-soviet declaration,becouse they belong to german parties in Poland.
They do not have any kind of politics,they do what Berlin want.
 

planefag

A Flying Bundle of Sticks
Nice appeal to authority there but it won't hold up. They actually could and did detect, target, and hit a "supposedly" undetectable stealth aircraft after sunset when you were - according to your profile - less than two weeks old.

They only got a lock on it when it opened it's bomb-bay doors to engage, and even that required it to be less than 8 nautical miles from the engaging battery. The battery operator was notably intelligent, using the lowest frequencies his radar could generate to maximize his chances of detection and the attacking plane was the victim of piss-poor and overconfident planning by NATO; involving re-use of identical routes and stand-off jamming support that was far, far too distant (something like 150-200nm) to be in any way effective.

Nonetheless, despite NATO blowing the absolute hell out of Yugoslavia for weeks with impunity, the fact that one stealth aircraft that basically tongue-kissed a SAM battery and begged for it was shot down has resulted in furious masturbation by fucking morons for decades since. "SUPPOSEDLY UNDETECTABLE" they scream, as if anyone but the fuckwit journalists who used such phrases to begin with (for nobody in the goddamned military does) were aggrieved by the incident. Truly the American juggernaut was taught respect that day; learning that if they wished to absolutely fuckhammer someone's shit, they must be ready to pay with... TWO JETS!!1!!!

Oh, by the way? The F-117 was the product of project Have Blue. Project Tacit Blue was the progenitor of the curvilinear stealth approach used by the B-2, the F-22 and now the F-35. It's an entirely different technological approach. So just in case anyone things the F-117 incident from the 90s is relevant in any way past "play stupid games, win stupid prizes," you can stop that now. You can stop thinking that now.

Stop.
 

Tiamat

I've seen the future...
They only got a lock on it when it opened it's bomb-bay doors to engage, and even that required it to be less than 8 nautical miles from the engaging battery. The battery operator was notably intelligent, using the lowest frequencies his radar could generate to maximize his chances of detection and the attacking plane was the victim of piss-poor and overconfident planning by NATO; involving re-use of identical routes and stand-off jamming support that was far, far too distant (something like 150-200nm) to be in any way effective.

Nonetheless, despite NATO blowing the absolute hell out of Yugoslavia for weeks with impunity, the fact that one stealth aircraft that basically tongue-kissed a SAM battery and begged for it was shot down has resulted in furious masturbation by fucking morons for decades since. "SUPPOSEDLY UNDETECTABLE" they scream, as if anyone but the fuckwit journalists who used such phrases to begin with (for nobody in the goddamned military does) were aggrieved by the incident. Truly the American juggernaut was taught respect that day; learning that if they wished to absolutely fuckhammer someone's shit, they must be ready to pay with... TWO JETS!!1!!!

Oh, by the way? The F-117 was the product of project Have Blue. Project Tacit Blue was the progenitor of the curvilinear stealth approach used by the B-2, the F-22 and now the F-35. It's an entirely different technological approach. So just in case anyone things the F-117 incident from the 90s is relevant in any way past "play stupid games, win stupid prizes," you can stop that now. You can stop thinking that now.

Stop.


And just to add to that: Got to tool around one of the F-117's up close during the whole Yugoslavia debacle, won't say where. I will say this aircraft was actually OLD when I was in by that time, but by no means less effective. Only that by this time, the USAF already had new toys with more sophisticated follow-up tech, the B-2 and F-22 starting to come into play.

So yeah, congrats Serbia, on shooting down ONE F-16 and ONE F-117 during that whole conflict.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
They only got a lock on it when it opened it's bomb-bay doors to engage, and even that required it to be less than 8 nautical miles from the engaging battery. The battery operator was notably intelligent, using the lowest frequencies his radar could generate to maximize his chances of detection and the attacking plane was the victim of piss-poor and overconfident planning by NATO; involving re-use of identical routes and stand-off jamming support that was far, far too distant (something like 150-200nm) to be in any way effective.

Nonetheless, despite NATO blowing the absolute hell out of Yugoslavia for weeks with impunity, the fact that one stealth aircraft that basically tongue-kissed a SAM battery and begged for it was shot down has resulted in furious masturbation by fucking morons for decades since. "SUPPOSEDLY UNDETECTABLE" they scream, as if anyone but the fuckwit journalists who used such phrases to begin with (for nobody in the goddamned military does) were aggrieved by the incident. Truly the American juggernaut was taught respect that day; learning that if they wished to absolutely fuckhammer someone's shit, they must be ready to pay with... TWO JETS!!1!!!

Oh, by the way? The F-117 was the product of project Have Blue. Project Tacit Blue was the progenitor of the curvilinear stealth approach used by the B-2, the F-22 and now the F-35. It's an entirely different technological approach. So just in case anyone things the F-117 incident from the 90s is relevant in any way past "play stupid games, win stupid prizes," you can stop that now. You can stop thinking that now.

Stop.
They still got lucky on the 117. Like legit luck and complacency
 

History Learner

Well-known member
Until the death of President Kaczyński, he was in conflict with the government because, like PiS, he was anti-Russian and looked unfavourably on Tusk's and his party's affinity with the Russians.

To cut through the entire post and get to the heart of the matter: Kaczyński was so Anti Russian that he died in Smolensk going to an event with the Russian government to jointly commemorate Katyn.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
To cut through the entire post and get to the heart of the matter: Kaczyński was so Anti Russian that he died in Smolensk going to an event with the Russian government to jointly commemorate Katyn.
Are you really this dull or are you just pretending to grind an axe?
Where else are they supposed to commemorate Katyn? In Warsaw? Kraków maybe?
Does USA move the D-Day commemoration to Florida instead of Normandy every time it has a spat with France?
Well i guess by your logic Israel really loves Poland and Germany like no one else, look at all the commemorations they send officials there, no matter what party is the government.
This is how much of an inconvenient story Soviet, and now Russian historical politics consider the remembrance of it.
 

History Learner

Well-known member
1.You do not read my post.PIS ruled from 2005 till 2007,later was replaced by german PO.President was from PIS,but,since he do not have any power,PO was doing what germans wonted.
And,germans as soviet allies ALWAYS wanted cooperation with Moscov.

So why did the President go to Russia then? He was from PiS.

So,it was not Poland who wanted agreement with soviets,but german agents in Poland.

So why is PiS still in the European Union and accepting European Union funds then, eh?

2.part of Sejm do not supported anti-soviet declaration,becouse they belong to german parties in Poland.
They do not have any kind of politics,they do what Berlin want.

It wasn't part of the Sejm; almost as many as failed to show up as actually voted for it. Likewise, you seem to have forgot your initial argument:

There is no soviet supporting parties in Poland now - old polish commies serve whoever pay better/not putin anymore/ and Konfederacja get rid of Korwin and is anti-soviet now,too.

So which was is it? You said there are no "Soviet" supporting parties in Poland but now say almost half of the Sejm belong to such parties. Please make up your mind as to what your argument is and please be consistent in application of it.
 

History Learner

Well-known member
Are you really this dull or are you just pretending to grind an axe?
Where else are they supposed to commemorate Katyn? In Warsaw? Kraków maybe?
Does USA move the D-Day commemoration to Florida instead of Normandy every time it has a spat with France?
Well i guess by your logic Israel really loves Poland and Germany like no one else, look at all the commemorations they send officials there, no matter what party is the government.
This is how much of an inconvenient story Soviet, and now Russian historical politics consider the remembrance of it.

You can commemorate Katyn without doing it jointly with Putin in an official ceremony that was wildly billed as being a symbol of reconciliation and friendship between Poland and Russia.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
You don't, if you're actually Anti-Putin/Russian. Weird they never had to commemorate Katyn at the site of Katyn before or since.
But it's not weird that as usual you say shit without knowing shit.
Polish President Lech Kaczynski (AFP) September 16, 2007 -- Polish President Lech Kaczynski on September 17 will visit the Katyn forest in Russia, the site of a World War II-era massacre of Polish officers by Soviet forces.
Monday saw the Presidents of Poland and Russia take part in the commemoration ceremonies held in connection with the anniversary of the massacre of Polish officers by the NKVD in Katyń. The two Presidents laid wreaths in the Polish and in the Russian sections of the cemetery.


Bronisław Komorowski and Dmitry Medvedev also laid wreaths at the Smoleńsk airport at the birch tree into which a piece of the Tu-154M plane crashed on 10th April 2010. Before that, the two Presidents met at the Smoleńsk library and discussed matters such as the monument commemorating the victims of the crash, which is to be erected in Smoleńsk.
Sorry, no access. And it's "an overview of public debates" about the possibility, lol.
 
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History Learner

Well-known member
But it's not weird that as usual you say shit without knowing shit.



Sorry, no access. And it's "an overview of public debates" about the possibility, lol.

Notice the date is 2007, i.e. when the reconciliation effort started.

 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
You don't, if you're actually Anti-Putin/Russian. Weird they never had to commemorate Katyn at the site of Katyn before or since.
You said it never happened before or after. I've proven it did. Also this article is from 2010. Go perform a physiologically impossible act of self abuse.
No one gives a shit about your fictional reconciliation (or again your reading comprehension has failed and turned "sought to improve relations" into an implied success, in fact the same article states it wasn't one in the next paragraph) if you keep believing in it, i'm just writing this for the benefit of other users who may not recognize your axe grinding bullshit.
 
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History Learner

Well-known member
You said it never happened before or after. I've proven it did. Also this article is from 2010. Go perform a physiologically impossible act of self abuse.
No one gives a shit about your fictional reconciliation and if you keep believing in it, i'm just writing this for the benefit of other users who may not recognize your axe grinding bullshit.

Before or after the reconciliation attempt, yes, hence why in the second part of the post I linked to an article on the reconciliation debates in Polish society at the time that lasted for years. As I've said before multiple times, for someone that continues to harp on that I don't matter or whatever, it's remarkable how much you seem to seek engagement and thus validation from me.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
Before or after the reconciliation attempt, yes, hence why in the second part of the post I linked to an article on the reconciliation debates in Polish society at the time that lasted for years. As I've said before multiple times, for someone that continues to harp on that I don't matter or whatever, it's remarkable how much you seem to seek engagement and thus validation from me.
"it was debated" =/= "it happened".
 

History Learner

Well-known member
"it was debated" =/= "it happened".

You've literally demonstrated they were doing joint meetings together, as have I. By what metrics would you like to see? The joint German-Polish-Russian group that allowed Kalingrad residents to enter the EU visa free? The deepening trade relations at the time? Etc.
 
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