Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

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Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
What's quite interesting is that Schroder was even more of a Russian ass-kisser than Merkel was. It's as if Germany gained a grudging respect for the Russians after the latter severely mauled them during WWII or something.
Germany wanted cheap energy and access to the Russian market and mineral resources, Schroder's policies were just a continuation of a longstanding relationship.

For almost 50 years, the world's biggest natural gas exporter has been supplying Europe's biggest economy — heating homes, powering businesses, cooking food and lighting up streets.


Russia supplies gas to countries throughout the EU, and many in eastern Europe are even more dependent than Germany, which acquires roughly 50% of its gas from Russia.


But the German market has long been the jewel in the crown for the Russian gas industry. According to Russian customs data, Germany took just under 20% of all Russian gas exports in 2020, comfortably making it its biggest customer.

Pipes for gas

In 1955, West German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer visited Moscow to establish diplomatic relations between the new Federal Republic of Germany and the Soviet Union. A trade agreement followed in 1958 and by 1960, bilateral trade between the countries was booming.


In the 1960s, the astonishing wealth of Russian oil and gas resources was becoming apparent. Demand for German-made large diameter pipes soared as a mammoth energy business dawned for the Soviets.

West Germany had started providing pipes for the Druzhba pipeline ("Friendship Pipeline"), the world's longest oil pipeline linking Russia with much of eastern Europe, which eventually came into operation in 1964. However, the Kennedy administration in the US was spooked by the Soviet Union's growing energy sector and managed to push through, via NATO, an embargo on pipe exports from Germany to the Soviet Union.


However, by the end of the decade, West German Chancellor Willy Brandt's Ostpolitik policy was opening up the country's relationship with its eastern neighbors. That paved the way for a historic deal between West Germany and the Soviet Union in 1970, which saw West Germany agree to extend Transgas, an extension of the Soyuz gas pipeline, through what is now the Czech Republic into the southern German state of Bavaria.


In exchange for the gas, West Germany would supply pipes as part of a much wider arrangement known as "pipes for gas." Gas imports from the Soviet Union were paid with steel pipe exports in the other direction.


By 1973, Russian gas had begun to flow to West Germany, the same year as it began coming to East Germany, which was part of Europe's East bloc and a satellite state of the Soviet Union.


Several commentators, business leaders and academics have identified that 1970 deal as a significant fork in the road of the Cold War, as it established a mutual basis for economic cooperation between Russia and western Europe.


German imports of Soviet gas rose steadily throughout the 1970s, as various more deals were struck to increase supply. The oil crisis of the mid-1970s caused countries like Germany to further diversify towards natural gas as a source of energy, and the Soviet Union profited.

And for just as long, the USA has been trying to interfere with it.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Germany wanted cheap energy and access to the Russian market and mineral resources, Schroder's policies were just a continuation of a longstanding relationship.



And for just as long, the USA has been trying to interfere with it.

And why don't other European countries play the Russian game anywhere near as much as Germany does? France has nuclear, for instance, and Poland doesn't but still doesn't want to play the Russian game like Germany does.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
And why don't other European countries play the Russian game anywhere near as much as Germany does? France has nuclear, for instance, and Poland doesn't but still doesn't want to play the Russian game like Germany does.
You do understand the difference between baseload and the extra power you need for manufacturing, for stuff like, on, fertilizer and glass production and the like?

You also have climate differences and the fact that France had a more developed nuclear industry because of its desire to use it for military applications,too.

Also, I do not think you are any actual expert on power generation and it's industrial uses, so your comment is kinda irrelevant.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
You do understand the difference between baseload and the extra power you need for manufacturing, for stuff like, on, fertilizer and glass production and the like?

And France, Poland, et cetera are not manufacturing, fertilizer, glass, et cetera producers to anywhere near the same extent that Germany is, right?
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
And France, Poland, et cetera are not manufacturing, fertilizer, glass, et cetera producers to anywhere near the same extent that Germany is, right?
Germany has always had a much larger manufacturing industry than either, including chemical, glass and other mateieals requiring energy intensive processing or gas as a feedstock.
The geography we covered already.

And I don't know about you, but I do not fancy coal fired thermal plant smog and soot.

I do not give a ret's ass about CO2, it is the monoxide, the particulate matter and various other shit dislike.

To further my point.Also here.
 
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Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
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What's quite interesting is that Schroder was even more of a Russian ass-kisser than Merkel was. It's as if Germany gained a grudging respect for the Russians after the latter severely mauled them during WWII or something.
Because Germany really doesn't like corruption so greedy politicritters have a simple solution - outsource the corruption to a true corruption heaven, Russia!
And why don't other European countries play the Russian game anywhere near as much as Germany does? France has nuclear, for instance, and Poland doesn't but still doesn't want to play the Russian game like Germany does.
Because they don't need to hide their corruption that hard, so they don't need to hide it with "cheap" energy deals that give expensive energy, and aren't fucked by post-WW2 and unification hangups regarding Russia. Probably loads of influence agents too.
Yeah, their electricity cost before taxes is pretty much EU average, and it's made crazy high by not so average taxes on it.
 
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WolfBear

Well-known member
Because Germany really doesn't like corruption so greedy politicritters have a simple solution - outsource the corruption to a true corruption heaven, Russia!

So, corrupt German politicians simply become Russian lobbyists since they can't steal from the German people?
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Yeah, sure, sure it is.

Wanna link to something that shows your claims have actual substance behind them.

"but technology will do x,y,z..." because you wish it to doesn't quite cut it.

The quality of the deposit actually accounts for much of the price, and the Permian is prime real estate, and there are some indications that it is not as large as you might think.

Also, since it is a very labor intensive process compared to regular oil well extraction inflation and interest rates will hit it.
pretty soon the 50$ breakeven will snake up to above 60 IMHO, and because of all the green reeing against the industry investors want a nice, fat premium to fund it.


 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Kazakhstan, Greatest Country In the World. All Other Countries Run by Little Girls.



Freedom and Chocolates! It feels like only LESS THAN A YEAR AGO that Kazakhstan had a bit of a domestic hiccup going on, but that was so long ago lol.

Meanwhile in Russia...



Ya know... Nazism anywhere is a threat to Slavs everywhere. They probably should liberate Kazakhstan before it too falls under Nazism.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
If this ends with Kazakhstan and the other 'Stans finally building gas and oil pipelines to Europe through Turkey or Iran - I will laugh myself silly.
You do realize that Putin saved Takaev's ass about an year ago, right?

Also, great idea, because the large Turkish Fifth Column and the refugees he is using as leverage are not enough for Erdogan, and we should hand over control over our energy transit to him...
 
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