Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Buba]

Does anyone know the answer to the following? Is it a translation error or a local convention of language that both Ukraine and Russia refer to the Eastern Bank as the Left Bank? On the map the East is clearly the Right Bank.

In Polish same. Left and right bank is not related with east or west. It follows the convention that you name river bank by their position to the viewer who has their back to the river's source.
So, for a N-S flowing river the eastern bank is right, but for a S-N one - it is left.
And e.g. Belgrade is on the right bank.

 

[Bacle]

The Ukraine does have a path to victory now.

But it is not nice, basically it all involves Crimea. They have to bomb the bridges leading there and destroy the outside power and water including a major sluse gate. Then that pensular has to feed themselves just on what they grow there which they cant do with the water that's just with in the area.

Then you let the ethnic russians there die in an Ethopian level famine, the bad live aid one. That might do enough damage to break the russian will to fight that might kill enough russians to do it but it is going to be absolutely brutal.

This is behind the times.

Ukrainian forces already did an amphibious landing on the Kinburn Spit, which is part of the Dnieper estuary and part of Crimea, so they now have a foot hold on Crimea that bypasses Kherson, and allows them to start pushing into Crimea without slogging through Kherson first.

And they are doing so under their own (UKR) artillery cover.

 

[Buba]

Kinburn Spit, which is part of the Dnieper estuary and part of Crimea

You failed your geography test.

1 - the Kinburn Spit is but a small part of the Kinburn Peninsula, not that important
2 - the Kinburn Peninsula is a long way from Crimea

You probably have been misled by Evul! and St00pid! journos.

 

[Bacle]

You failed your geography test.

1 - the Kinburn Spit is but a small part of the Kinburn Peninsula, not that important
2 - the Kinburn Peninsula is a long way from Crimea

You probably have been misled by Evul! and St00pid! journos.

It is on the east bank of the Dnieper, and provides an effective back door to Crimea that bypasses Kherson.

It's farther west than the main part of Crimea, could be considered part of it, though maybe calling it part of the Kherson region might be more accurate.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Ukrainian forces already did an amphibious landing on the Kinburn Spit, which is part of the Dnieper estuary and part of Crimea, so they now have a foot hold on Crimea that bypasses Kherson, and allows them to start pushing into Crimea without slogging through Kherson first.

Ukrainian soldiers can only pray their commanders are not as retarded as you. Pushing into Crimea out of Kinburn Spit?! It's a narrow, sandy penisula with little to no cower, they would get fucking massacred, for the same reason the Russians are not defending the area. This is a mere decoy operation, with added PR value, they hope to lure Russian forces into penisula so they can hammer them with artillery and drones, it's unlikely Ukrainian troops remained in that exposed are longer than necessary, the landing operation was costly enough, sustaining it would be even worse.

If the Ukrainians will try to move towards Crimea it will be via offensive from Zaporožje to Melitopol, in that area they can manoeuvre, while landing across Dneper robs them of that option. Thus any strikes across Dneper will not be the main effort but deception strikes to support the offensives elsewhere or forlorn hope PR operations.

Also for your information, Ukrainians already hold Kherson, so they really don't need to slog through it.

 

[Buba]

Ukrainian soldiers can only pray their commanders are not as retarded as you.

I suspect that @Bacle "doesn't do maps".

Although technically possible, pontoon bridges downriver from Chersoń are not viable (too long and/or marshland).
Any push towards Crimea across the lowermost Dnepr has to be made between Kherson and Nova Kahovka, as it cannot be supplied if made above or below those two points.
An attack from Zaporozhye towards any of the following - Melitpol, Taganrog or Mariupol - might be logistically preferable, I don't know enough to judge.

 

[Bacle]

I suspect that @Bacle "doesn't do maps".

Although technically possible, pontoon bridges downriver from Chersoń are not viable (too long and/or marshland).
Any push towards Crimea across the lowermost Dnepr has to be made between Kherson and Nova Kahovka, as it cannot be supplied if made above or below those two points.
An attack from Zaporozhye towards any of the following - Melitpol, Taganrog or Mariupol - might be logistically preferable, I don't know enough to judge.

I can into maps, and the Ukrainians do have enough amphib vehicles to supply the operation, particularly now that they've captured a couple small harbors on the spit.

Ukraine's arty already has the range to cover that area, so Ukraine can support troops on the spit without needing the arty to be on the spit.

 

[DarthOne]

Also, they are somehow trying to grab war out of the jaws of peace by blaming Russia even if it's a Ukrainian missile.

Considering that the Ukrainian missile was something fired as an intercept for incoming Russian munitions, this is still on Russia.

If Russia was not continuing this invasion and air raids/strikes on Ukraine, none of this would be happening.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Ukraine's arty already has the range to cover that area

And so does the Russian artillery. With no significant cover, any significant force here will get slaughtered, that's why Russians are not defending the area and that's why Ukrainians only planted the flag, took videos and left.

 

[AmosTrask]

In Polish same. Left and right bank is not related with east or west. It follows the convention that you name river bank by their position to the viewer who has their back to the river's source.
So, for a N-S flowing river the eastern bank is right, but for a S-N one - it is left.
And e.g. Belgrade is on the right bank.

Huh. I never noticed that. I've lived and worked here decades and never knew that convention. So its more Stage Left than normal Left then.

 

[bintananth]

Huh. I never noticed that. I've lived and worked here decades and never knew that convention. So its more Stage Left than normal Left then.

That's the same convention as in English ... just phrased differently.

In English it's based on the direction of the river's flow when you're looking downstream.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Huh. I never noticed that. I've lived and worked here decades and never knew that convention. So its more Stage Left than normal Left then.

Yup, just look in the direction the river flows, then Left, then Right. That's all you need to know!

....and you know what they say, right?

Knowing is half the battle! YO JOE!!!!

 

[AmosTrask]

Possible first Iran Revolutionary Guard casualties. Ukrainian suicide drones bombed the airbase the IRG are stationed at in Crimea to train the Russians in using the various drones they sold to Russia.

An amusing piece. Belarusian Border Services minister lodged a complaint with the UN against Ukraine. Ukraine has fully mined the entire border, destroyed all bridges and have erected walls and defenses similar to the South Korean fortified border with North Korea. All roads have been made impassable.

 

[King Arts]

Actually humanity will survive.

Russia's nuclear weapon stock pile is roughly estimated to be 5,977 weapons. If Russia uses said weapons they have to split its useage among all of the Nato countries, Japan, south Korea and China.

In the case of america our sats will see it coming our hackers will have warning and those weapons have to travel over longer distances to get to us and we have been working on anti balistic missles for over 40 years now. On top of that these are for the most part older weapons. And the old soviet stock piles had accuracy problems when they were brand new.

Then you get into matinace and you wonder just how many of them actually work and how much of the critical parts were sold off by troops who didn't get their pay checks or how much matinance wasn't done because it was pricy or because of laziness. Its actually a open question if the Russian stock pile works at fucking all.

Even if the matiance was done there is going to be a failure rate because their old soviet tech even before interceptors get involved. Which means the Russians have to use multiple nukes for the same target.

In response to the use of nuclear weapons even a failed one the british, French and american's use their weapons on Russia when China recovers they use theirs as well.

In short humanity survives civilization survives but Russia ceises to exist as a country and their land gets seized by their enemies any surviving russians are treated as subhumans.

What if Russia sees this and decides to not spread out its nukes for two reasons one they want someone else to be on the same level as them and two they don’t want to have everyone else have a personal hatred of them. So they decide to launch all nukes at only one target either the UK or America or whoever they think hates them the most. Then while they may be occupied afterwards they wouldn’t be genocide or treated as subhumans and slaves.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Belarusian Border Services minister lodged a complaint with the UN against Ukraine. Ukraine has fully mined the entire border, destroyed all bridges and have erected walls and defenses similar to the South Korean fortified border with North Korea. All roads have been made impassable.

Hmmm...Russian patsy/country that helped supply the invasion of Ukraine and assisted in said invasion is angry that they can't easily access Ukraine...awwww...shucks.

 

[Marduk]

What if Russia sees this and decides to not spread out its nukes for two reasons one they want someone else to be on the same level as them and two they don’t want to have everyone else have a personal hatred of them. So they decide to launch all nukes at only one target either the UK or America or whoever they think hates them the most. Then while they may be occupied afterwards they wouldn’t be genocide or treated as subhumans and slaves.

Ironically that's why they are picking fights with the West, not China. The West has its own cultural and ideological principles preventing it from doing so. China, not so much.
If they were fine with just being occupied, they could skip the whole part where they get nuked and volunteer into that right away. Though if they launch at America there won't be much left to occupy anyway. So it's a solution to a nonexistent problem.
Whoever in the West they launch at, the amount of people who do have a real personal hatred of them (as opposed to current mostly imagined cases) will multiply either way though.

 

[Cherico]

What if Russia sees this and decides to not spread out its nukes for two reasons one they want someone else to be on the same level as them and two they don’t want to have everyone else have a personal hatred of them. So they decide to launch all nukes at only one target either the UK or America or whoever they think hates them the most. Then while they may be occupied afterwards they wouldn’t be genocide or treated as subhumans and slaves.

You still have interceptions issues matiance issues and the fact that the other side will see it coming. Russia ceises to exist after they launch

 

[LordsFire]

What if Russia sees this and decides to not spread out its nukes for two reasons one they want someone else to be on the same level as them and two they don’t want to have everyone else have a personal hatred of them. So they decide to launch all nukes at only one target either the UK or America or whoever they think hates them the most. Then while they may be occupied afterwards they wouldn’t be genocide or treated as subhumans and slaves.

If Russia launches on any NATO nation, all of NATO replies. There's no winning for Russia in that situation.

If Russia launches on a non-NATO nation (like Ukraine), well, there's no precedent, no pre-set policy, but it's not something that can be ignored either, so exactly what happens, nobody will know until the moment of crisis comes.

 

[King Arts]

You still have interceptions issues matiance issues and the fact that the other side will see it coming. Russia ceises to exist after they launch

Isn’t that gambling quite a lot that they let their nuke arsenal degrade the only thing that can guarantee your independence. The most important part of national defense, the guarantee you will never be invaded or occupied.

If Russia launches on any NATO nation, all of NATO replies. There's no winning for Russia in that situation.

If Russia launches on a non-NATO nation (like Ukraine), well, there's no precedent, no pre-set policy, but it's not something that can be ignored either, so exactly what happens, nobody will know until the moment of crisis comes.

I get that, what I’m talking about is the after the nukes fly. There will probably be survivors. But if your nation is not badly damaged you won’t have a desire to genocide the survivors. For example let’s say tomorrow China decides to go and nuke Russia to capture Siberia and all the resources also because it used to be Chinese. But let’s say Cherico was wrong and Russia did have working effective nukes. They respond against China and both Russia/KGBstan and the chi come are wiped out. The rest of the world is left untouched. Now what would you support the west to do? I think at that time we would come in providing humanitarian relief, as well as choosing a faction to prop up as the new government of China and Russia, we’d also collect any remaining warheads. Obviously we would be very influential like how Japan after WW2. But I don’t think we’d decide it’s best to try and wipe out every village and kill everyone in that region who is not reduced to a hunter gathering. But if Russia launched a few hundred warheads at America I think it would e very different.

 

[Marduk]

I get that, what I’m talking about is the after the nukes fly. There will probably be survivors. But if your nation is not badly damaged you won’t have a desire to genocide the survivors. For example let’s say tomorrow China decides to go and nuke Russia to capture Siberia and all the resources also because it used to be Chinese. But let’s say Cherico was wrong and Russia did have working effective nukes. They respond against China and both Russia/KGBstan and the chi come are wiped out. The rest of the world is left untouched. Now what would you support the west to do? I think at that time we would come in providing humanitarian relief, as well as choosing a faction to prop up as the new government of China and Russia, we’d also collect any remaining warheads. Obviously we would be very influential like how Japan after WW2. But I don’t think we’d decide it’s best to try and wipe out every village and kill everyone in that region who is not reduced to a hunter gathering. But if Russia launched a few hundred warheads at America I think it would e very different.

You are mixing up different parts of the story. The West as things stand has no political will to genocide anyone. If that wasn't the case, there would have been much less Afghans in the world right now. Obviously the West will be much angrier at Russia for nuking the West than it would be for nuking China, news at eleven. Regardless of how thoroughly it nukes China.
On the other hand if Russia fights a nuclear war against the West and loses the ability to do so again in the process, wouldn't put it above China to take the opportunity to turn Russians into Uyghurs 2.0 over the next century.
If the nuclear war is against China though and China still has the ability to try that afterwards, then it absolutely will.