Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Bacle]

Really, what's your solution? Nuclear war? Yeah, shockingly enough I'd much prefer talking to nuclear war.

Also the "Oooh, something possibly horrific is gonna happen, let's decide to use this to arbitrarily attack my political enemy" is expectedly awful as well, even ignoring that your objection doesn't even work.

For everyone else, if this doesn't result in World War III, it's a great time to note who simps for nuclear annihilation and who doesn't.

No, there are other options, but they are in the hands of the Russian people; the madness can only stop from within Russia itself.

Because everything going on now is the fault of Putin deciding he could not allow Ukraine to undercut Russian gas sales or allow Ukraine to chart it's own course away from him and to the West.

I made that jibe at the Libs because this sort of thing shows exactly why the NAP does not work on an international scale, and until the Lib party grocks that, they will keep operating with their metaphorical/political heads in the sand.

You want to avoid nuclear war, then stop appeasing Russia, and stop acting like the Bear get's a veto on other nation's sovereignty.

Where the fuck are you getting that info? Your imagination is not a valid answer.
Here's a serious media report, google translate it if you want.

Eksplozja w suszarni zbóż w Przewodowie. Nie żyją 2 osoby

Eksplozja w suszarni zbóż w Przewodowie na Lubelszczyźnie. Zginęły dwie osoby.

www.rmf24.pl

"Explosion in grain dryer. It happened when a tractor with corn was entering the building's (weighting) scales. Firemen are still working. Causes of explosion are being investigated".

Yes, because Moldova's electric network was buying some power from Ukraine, and guess what happened there.

Look, from what I can see your gov, other govs, the Russian stock market and populace, and a lot of others are taking this seriously, even if you are not.

People are understandably scared of what it could mean for this to be Russian munitions, aimed at Ukraine, and either missing or hitting Poland, or being intercepted and the debris hitting.

 

[King Arts]

Fuck! I just woke up. This is what I get for going on a pub crawl. Grad missiles in Poland! ARTICLE FIVE! Fuck. Well, Territorial Defense rejected me for my flat feet. I guess I'm getting my go bag. Good thing I have cousins in Switzerland. Good Luck Amigoes!

Worst birthday ever!

Weren't you one of the people cheering for war with Russia, or at least more involvement with Ukraine?

 

[Abhorsen]

No, there are other options, but they are in the hands of the Russian people; the madness can only stop from within Russia itself.

Stop simping for nukes, simp.

Because everything going on now is the fault of Putin deciding he could not allow Ukraine to undercut Russian gas sales or allow Ukraine to chart it's own course away from him and to the West.

"WAHHH!!! Everything's Putins fault and we are completely blameless."

I made that jibe at the Libs because this sort of thing shows exactly why the NAP does not work on an international scale, and until the Lib party grocks that, they will keep operating with their metaphorical/political heads in the sand.

Please, keep showing off your ignorance to the world. You don't understand how the NAP works, don't realize that the reason why we are here is in large part because America kept pushing Russia's buttons, something that wouldn't have happened had we stuck to the NAP. You don't even know how to spell grok, for Christ's sake, so stop pretending you grok anything. But please, keep ranting to everyone about how much you want nuclear war, and how it's not your fault.

You want to avoid nuclear war, then stop appeasing Russia, and acting like the Bear get's a veto on other nation's sovereignty.

"If you don't want a war with Russia, stop advocating for peace with Russia" The dumbassery never ends with simps.

 

[Marduk]

Look, from what I can see your gov, other govs, the Russian stock market and populace, and a lot of others are taking this seriously, even if you are not.

People are understandably scared of what it could mean for this to be Russian munitions, aimed at Ukraine, and either missing or hitting Poland, or being intercepted and the debris hitting.

Witness the power of a fully armed and operational rumor mill!

 

[ATP]

Stop simping for nukes, simp.


"WAHHH!!! Everything's Putins fault and we are completely blameless."


Please, keep showing off your ignorance to the world. You don't understand how the NAP works, don't realize that the reason why we are here is in large part because America kept pushing Russia's buttons, something that wouldn't have happened had we stuck to the NAP. You don't even know how to spell grok, for Christ's sake, so stop pretending you grok anything. But please, keep ranting to everyone about how much you want nuclear war, and how it's not your fault.


"If you don't want a war with Russia, stop advocating for peace with Russia" The dumbassery never ends with simps.

1.?
2.Moscov started war,so it is only their fault.
3.USA gave Moscov Ukraine for support against China in 2021.They do not need fight for it.
Then,KGBstan started war when USA refused send tanks,planes,long range AA missiles - and still manage to lost.
And KGB WOULD NEVER START NUCLEAR WAR - becouse they are psychopats,and creatures like them NEVER risk their own life.
4.What Russia? soviets killed it.And yes,to have peace with Moscov you must beat them first.They do not understandt other methods.

 

[AmosTrask]

"If you don't want a war with Russia, stop advocating for peace with Russia" The dumbassery never ends with simps.

He means that to Russian/Soviet style strongman dictators appeasement is seen as effeminate weakness. He means that to stop Russia you need a show of strength, machismo that they can point to with their people or they will be killed and another strongman will take control vowing to kill the Western (slur against weak/homosexual/pushover bottom person)!

Reality doesn't care about personal opinions. Megalomaniacs have well documented psychological profiles.

 

[Zachowon]

That is a false flag by reporting. You say potato I say potato.

The initial post even says that it looks like one of the types of missiles that "get lost". My guess is either Ukrainian or Russian soldiers fired on planes, missiles flew and tried to hit but failed, then kept going till they lost power and coming down the machine spirit tried to fulfil it's mission by targetting the nearest hot spot it found in a grain silo.

Honestly sounds probable based of my knowledge of these things

 

[DarthOne]

He means that to Russian/Soviet style strongman dictators appeasement is seen as effeminate weakness. He means that to stop Russia you need a show of strength, machismo that they can point to with their people or they will be killed and another strongman will take control vowing to kill the Western (slur against weak/homosexual/pushover bottom person)!

Reality doesn't care about personal opinions. Megalomaniacs have well documented psychological profiles.

Funny how every time the establishment wants a conflict, the opposition suddenly becomes a ‘strongman dictator’ or the like that ‘cannot be negotiated with’. Even if they’ve done just that before now.

 

[Abhorsen]

He means that to Russian/Soviet style strongman dictators appeasement is seen as effeminate weakness. He means that to stop Russia you need a show of strength, machismo that they can point to with their people or they will be killed and another strongman will take control vowing to kill the Western (slur against weak/homosexual/pushover bottom person)!

Reality doesn't care about personal opinions. Megalomaniacs have well documented psychological profiles.

What does the NAP have to do with appeasement? Seriously, there's nothing wrong with drawing a clear line in the sand, and sticking to it, ignoring other things as not-my-problem. Ukraine? Not the US's problem (or shouldn't be, more accurately). We decided to basically attack a Russian core interest by interfering there, (offering NATO, etc). Not doing that in the first place wouldn't be appeasement, it would be have instead stopped this from being a problem at all.

"Oh, no, Russia invaded Georgia, who gives a shit" worked perfectly fine. No US allies were harmed at all. The same would happen if we hadn't made overtures to Ukraine about joining NATO, etc.

Now because people didn't stick to NAP, and we kept poking the Bear, we have a pissed off Russia that maybe accidentally hit an ally, and thus another possible Cuban Missile Crisis on our hands (not that bad, but still).

So it would have been nice to have been following the NAP. But maybe, one might argue, that now that we are here, the NAP means we have to appease. But then that person would reveal themselves to not understand what the NAP actually means. It's the Non-Aggression Principle. It literally says "if you want, go fuck up the person who aggressed against you." So no, it's perfectly viable to follow the NAP (as in regards to states' Collective NAP, which is still not how really how the NAP works) here while launching off nukes if it's determined to be on purpose.

If you want to go all the way and follow the real, individualized NAP, an NAP compliant way to do war is ID the guy who declared it, and the people who helped with that, and assassinate him or them. For example, Trump's bombing of Qasem Soleimani was right in line with the NAP.

But also just because an option is inline with the NAP doesn't mean it is smart, it just makes it not necessarily immoral. A usual result for this (if russia actually sent the missile) would be demanding reparations for the injured party in case of an accident, allowing heads to cool down.

 

[Zachowon]

Poland cares about Ukraine because it's thoer border. The Baltics care because they hate Russia.
All it takes is one NATO member to care

 

[Zachowon]

 

[Bacle]

This tracks with the interception theory; Ru was likely trying to hit something close to the Polish border with Ukraine, and Ukraine attempted to intercept in, and debris from both came down in Poland. due to proximity to the border.

I've heard elsewhere one of the cross border power connections between Poland and Ukraine are in the area, and Russia is likely trying to sever that and was intercepted.

 

[AmosTrask]

Funny how every time the establishment wants a conflict, the opposition suddenly becomes a ‘strongman dictator’ or the like that ‘cannot be negotiated with’. Even if they’ve done just that before now.

Putin is the literal definition of a Slavic strongman. He acts out every single point in the playbook. Every God damn propaganda op he has he's the tallest in the shot, has his shirt off, has his muscles flexed, has a weapon in hand, is pretending at "manual labour" or a combination.

I find you ignoring Putin's public and private personality willfully blind. And amusing. I find most things such.

 

[Bassoe]

This tracks with the interception theory;

That or a Ukrainian attempt at a false flag to get NATO to directly help them.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

So say WW3 breaks out, what are the odds that everyone dies as a result of nuclear attack?

 

[Bassoe]

So say WW3 breaks out, what are the odds that everyone dies as a result of nuclear attack?

Everyone posting here yes, the guys responsible have bunkers paid for with our taxes.

 

[Cherico]

So say WW3 breaks out, what are the odds that everyone dies as a result of nuclear attack?

Actually humanity will survive.

Russia's nuclear weapon stock pile is roughly estimated to be 5,977 weapons. If Russia uses said weapons they have to split its useage among all of the Nato countries, Japan, south Korea and China.

In the case of america our sats will see it coming our hackers will have warning and those weapons have to travel over longer distances to get to us and we have been working on anti balistic missles for over 40 years now. On top of that these are for the most part older weapons. And the old soviet stock piles had accuracy problems when they were brand new.

Then you get into matinace and you wonder just how many of them actually work and how much of the critical parts were sold off by troops who didn't get their pay checks or how much matinance wasn't done because it was pricy or because of laziness. Its actually a open question if the Russian stock pile works at fucking all.

Even if the matiance was done there is going to be a failure rate because their old soviet tech even before interceptors get involved. Which means the Russians have to use multiple nukes for the same target.

In response to the use of nuclear weapons even a failed one the british, French and american's use their weapons on Russia when China recovers they use theirs as well.

In short humanity survives civilization survives but Russia ceises to exist as a country and their land gets seized by their enemies any surviving russians are treated as subhumans.

 

[lloyd007]

That or a Ukrainian attempt at a false flag to get NATO to directly help them.

Ukraine doesn't need and wouldn't want to reconfigure its S-300's to a surface to surface role when they have HIMARS and they need those S-300's to defend against Russian macross missile massacre. That the incident happened during the largest Russian missile attack to date which targeted structures on the border of Ukraine and Poland.

 

[mrttao]

The Russians don't see Poland or NATO as 'neutral'; they already see the fight in Ukraine as a 'war against NATO'.

since when is NATO neutral?

At this point you can either chose to cry or laugh or rage at ridiculous shit happening, but not gonna stop happening.

I am alternating between the two

Really, what's your solution? Nuclear war? Yeah, shockingly enough I'd much prefer talking to nuclear war.

Yea, he is among several people in this thread who are utterly convinced that "we will win a nuclear war" and are pushing hard for it

 

[Bacle]

As I guessed, it was an interception of a Russian missile that ended with debris inside Poland, unfortunately killing 2 Polish farmers.