Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

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If people wanna throw the "Warcrime" label around let's try and stick with situations where there might actually be proof of anything happening. For example:



We aren't sure yet of the claims of civilians, Ukraine claims they are pulling bodies but little proof so far. Though at least we know the theater was actually bombed so that is something.
 
Bacle said:
Because a lot of the electorate are fucking ignorant sheeple who have no real knowledge of history and what caused WW1 to become more than an isolated spat in the Balkan's and still buy a lot of Cold War propaganda as the unvarnished truth.

And I do remember how much you Euro's and your allies in DC complained and dragged your feet on actually spending 2% of your GDP's on NATO (Poland at least was actually paying it's share, so kodus for that).

This is also why I'm fine with most European nations getting their own nukes; you won't need to depend on the US nuclear umbrella if you have nukes of your own.
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And best thing is, Ukraine actually had nukes... and then gave them up for a piece of paper.
 
Sobek said:
Super sus that the russians did this and the the middle of the smartphone era in the most well recorded war ever we have yet to see any proof other than a claim on the embassy twitter of this warcrime. You would think Ukranian authorities would be all over it and taking precautions to register and investigate so they can use it against Russia.

Face it, this has a 90% chance of being a completely fabrication or massive exaggeration.
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You also have Russian propaganda channels claiming the building, as recognizable in photos, was an Azov HQ.
 
Aldarion said:
And best thing is, Ukraine actually had nukes... and then gave them up for a piece of paper.
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To be fair the Nukes were Moscow's, only stored on the Ukrainian SSR. They had no launch codes or even the keys to the storage bunkers. Still they should have held onto the nukes a bit longer, get a stronger deal.

Marduk said:
You also have Russian propaganda channels claiming the building, as recognizable in photos, was an Azov HQ.
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True, but unlike the civilian massacre claim here we at least know a building was bombed. We now have to find out who is right.

My money is a inconvenient truth for both sides, Azov Battalion entering a building that had civilians and the Russians bombing it without doing a proper checking.
 
Sobek said:
To be fair the Nukes were Moscow's, only stored on the Ukrainian SSR. They had no launch codes or even the keys to the storage bunkers. Still they should have held onto the nukes a bit longer, get a stronger deal.



True, but unlike the civilian massacre claim here we at least know a building was bombed. We now have to find out who is right.

My money is a inconvenient truth for both sides, Azov Battalion entering a building that had civilians and the Russians bombing it without doing a proper checking.
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They bavnt been checking buildings anymore.
They have given up being kind to civies.
They have begun the killing of everyone
 
Sobek said:
If people wanna throw the "Warcrime" label around let's try and stick with situations where there might actually be proof of anything happening. For example:



We aren't sure yet of the claims of civilians, Ukraine claims they are pulling bodies but little proof so far. Though at least we know the theater was actually bombed so that is something.
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Problem is, it's hard to see who did what in the fog of war.

Did the Russians hit the theater by accident during a military operation? Did the Ukrainians hit it and now they're blaming it on the Russians to both avoid repercussions and to use as political ammunition? Or are the Ukrainians lying about the whole thing, because we've caught them lying before and Zelensky is a desperate man?
 
TheRejectionist said:
Considering that the country in question has started multiple wars on monetary pretenses or false ones, and the fact that is headed by a potato head, not to mention that lied about Syria as well, I am a little doubtful.
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I've repeatedly been skeptical of things the DC establishment and Western media have said, and gotten a ton of shit for it, all because I am not hating on Russia vigorously enough or pointing out things that make Ukraine less than innocent angles.

Yet, you do not see me calling anything that paint's Russia in a bad light a 'false flag'.

Maybe that should clue you in on why I came down on you for trying to imply this was a false flag, without evidence.
 
Bacle said:
Maybe that should clue you in on why I came down on you for trying to imply this was a false flag, without evidence.
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It's a fair criticism on your part. I actually appreciate this and the replies I have been getting from you @Battlegrinder @Captain X @Battlegrinder because even though we are on opposite sides, here we have actual discussion. Fiery but peaceful, unlike say, alternatehistory.com.

Or the BLM protests.
 
Bacle said:
I've repeatedly been skeptical of things the DC establishment and Western media have said, and gotten a ton of shit for it, all because I am not hating on Russia vigorously enough or pointing out things that make Ukraine less than innocent angles.

Yet, you do not see me calling anything that paint's Russia in a bad light a 'false flag'.

Maybe that should clue you in on why I came down on you for trying to imply this was a false flag, without evidence.
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I'd still like more than just the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv's word that it happened though. Preferably an independent source unaffiliated with any government.
 
Terthna said:
I'd still like more than just the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv's word that it happened though. Preferably an independent source unaffiliated with any government.
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That simply isn't going to happen right now. Right now, what NATO and various NGOs, MNCs, and Networks are concerned about right now isn't the truth of the matter, but where you stand. And right now, they need people to stand with them against Russia. So the truth will be casually set aside for their sake.

I think that is a mistake, because I don't think Ukraine is a country worth going to so much trouble for. Ukraine is one of the most corrupt states in the world, only a few points in corruption levels behind Russia itself. This isn't the people of Ukraine fighting for freedom or democracy or their sovereignty. They're ruled by a bunch of corrupt oligarchs who rig the rules as badly as Putin does in Russia. Right now, they're fighting to be ruled by the oligarchs who use Zelensky as a meat puppet or Putin's iron fist. And instead of doing it with minimal casualties, the West has instead shifted it to maximum casualties for both sides.

That's the only difference. The names of which Oligarchs run Ukrainian lives. And the fact that now it's done on the ruined bodies of thousands of Russians and Ukrainians.

Ukrainian oligarch - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

This is who Ukrainian men are dying for.

This is why retarded Redditors got their shit blown out by Russian cruise missiles.
 
TheRejectionist said:
It's a fair criticism on your part. I actually appreciate this and the replies I have been getting from you @Battlegrinder @Captain X @Battlegrinder because even though we are on opposite sides, here we have actual discussion. Fiery but peaceful, unlike say, alternatehistory.com.

Or the BLM protests.
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Since you tagged me, I'd not that regardless of if this actually happened or was just a rumor or was a real incident that got distorted in the fog of war, it wasn't a false flag. The goal of such an operation would be, presumably, to get the west involved and get them to provide additional support, either material (like those Polish MiGs the Ukrainians wanted) or as an active co-beligerant. And "but the Russians shot some people" won't do that, we're talking about an war of conquest launched without provocation (no, Ukraine maybe joining NATO at some unspecified future point is not provocation), that has absolutely caught a bunch of civilians in the crossfire already, and the West is staying out of it. It's unreasonable for Ukraine to believe that we'd change our minds if a few more civilians died.
 
Not sure if this goes here or the economic thread of the Ukraine-Russia war but:
SAUDIS PREPARE TO BACK THE PETROYUAN - #NEWWORLDNEXTWEEK
 
Looks like Bosnia is the next domino to fall... I mean... as soon as Ukraine falls or whatever.

Fox News said:
"If (Bosnia and Herzegovina) decides to be a member of any alliance, that is an internal matter. Our response is a different matter. Ukraine’s example shows what we expect. Should there be any threat, we will respond."
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Oooo spooky and ambiguous.

www.foxnews.com

Russia threatens Bosnia and Herzegovina over NATO membership

A Russian ambassador said Bosnia and Herzegovina could face the same military aggression unleashed on Ukraine if the country joins NATO.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
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