Nord Stream 1 and 2 Attacked

[mrttao]

Use your head. That pipeline was a source of both foreign revenue and diplomatic/economic leverage for the Russians. What would they gain by blowing it up?
That pipeline was source of gas cheaper than they could get elsewhere for the Germans. What would they gain from blowing it up?

But for the Americans? Specifically, for the sociopathic globalists of the Biden administration?
By blowing up the pipeline, they deprive Russia of that income and leverage. They also harm the economy of Germany, thereby weakening the whole EU relative to the USA. And they want the EU to be politically and economically subordinate to the USA.

Don't blow smoke about some mystery Russian faction that you have no other evidence of.

Biden literally said he will destroy it in a video interview.

Regardless of who actually did it, and why; I wonder if any apologies are going to be made to the people who even so much as suggested that it might not have been Russia, and got raked over the coals for it?

So far zero apologies. both in the media at large, and in this forum in specific.

 

[Blasterbot]

why would they apologize. the only reason people went against the narrative was because they were Vatniks. being right or wrong was never what the issue was. going against the narrative means you are siding with the "orcs". people would have to be retarded to think Russia would blow that shit. that is their bread and butter.

 

[Scottty]

Biden literally said he will destroy it in a video interview.

Is that still available online, or has it already been memory-holed?

 

[mrttao]

Is that still available online, or has it already been memory-holed?

Here is a copy



Promises kept.

IIRC there was a short followup where a reporter asked him "how you would do it? you don't have the authority to do this as it belongs to germany"
and replied something to the extent of "don't worry, we will get it done".

 

[PsihoKekec]

I wonder if any apologies are going to be made to the people who even so much as suggested that it might not have been Russia, and got raked over the coals for it?

Only a vatnik would believe that this was not done by Russia and such people are not worthy of any kind of apology, eternal scorn by the self-proclaimed moral betters is the only thing they will ever get.

Biden literally said he will destroy it in a video interview.

And they only put out the cover story of ''rogue Ukrainian elite agent team'' after Seymour Hersh wrote how US did it, proving him right in the process.

 

[Terthna]

Here is a copy



Promises kept.

IIRC there was a short followup where a reporter asked him "how you would do it? you don't have the authority to do this as it belongs to germany"
and replied something to the extent of "don't worry, we will get it done".

If you'll forgive me for playing devil's advocate, Biden says a lot of things most sane people would disregard as the ramblings of a senile old man completely disconnected from reality; so I'm not sure him saying we'd blow it up is really proof of anything by itself.

 

[Marduk]

Use your head. That pipeline was a source of both foreign revenue and diplomatic/economic leverage for the Russians. What would they gain by blowing it up?
That pipeline was source of gas cheaper than they could get elsewhere for the Germans. What would they gain from blowing it up?

Russian internal politics be crazy. People can get assassinated over shady income streams, nevermind war politics and attempts to interfere in them on account of some oligarch's sweet deal.
Blowing shit up is absolutely within the realm of possibility there.
And that's just one option.
And what's most suspicious, they didn't blow up all the lines.

Single line of Nord Stream 2 can still export gas, analysts say

Russia could export gas to Europe through one of the idle Nord Stream 2 pipelines that was the only of Nord Stream's four lines still capable of working following , analysts said on Wednesday.

www.reuters.com

Definitely looks like a warning to someone, but one meant not to go too far, that is if that was intended.
If it was USA motivated by really cutting the gas line, there's no fucking reason for them to leave one going, of all potential culprits they have the resources to make absolutely sure.
If it was Ukraine, then one could at least use the limitations of a barely possible, covert, small scale operation with limited and deniable resources to excuse missing one line because charges failed or something.

But for the Americans? Specifically, for the sociopathic globalists of the Biden administration?
By blowing up the pipeline, they deprive Russia of that income and leverage. They also harm the economy of Germany, thereby weakening the whole EU relative to the USA. And they want the EU to be politically and economically subordinate to the USA.

Sorry, i live too close to Russia to consider complaining about "sociopathic globalists" in USA but ignore "we have globalism at home" in form of Russian imperial ambitions.
I'm also not a EU patriot, i don't know where you got that idea, perhaps the same bullshit sources that absolutely do want to incite conflict between EU supporters and USA for Russia's benefit mostly, so here you have the trail of where that line came from and who wants it spread over the internet where you probably read it. Considering what EU wants to do with its strength to its members, it would be good for them for it to be weaker.
But hey, those arguments work better when thrown at actual leftist-technocrat EU federalists who want to make the whole EU live exactly the way they want and then get into an ego contest with American globalists for hegemony because they think they know better how everyone should live than those too, you should try it with those.

Don't blow smoke about some mystery Russian faction that you have no other evidence of.

We have no other evidence that Russia is a country united in own national interests either, yet your exclusion of it from list of potential culprits demands exactly that.

Why Putin would want to blow up Nord Stream 2, and the advantages it gives him

The Russian leader has a record of weaponising fuel supplies and believes his people can endure economic pain longer than western Europe

www.telegraph.co.uk

And they only put out the cover story of ''rogue Ukrainian elite agent team'' after Seymour Hersh wrote how US did it, proving him right in the process.

Love it how some "right wingers" are willing to take big name leftist journo scum at their word, but only when they join in on simping for Putin-senpai.

 

[mrttao]

Why Putin would want to blow up Nord Stream 2, and the advantages it gives him

The Russian leader has a record of weaponising fuel supplies and believes his people can endure economic pain longer than western Europe

www.telegraph.co.uk

I love how you are still doubling down on the "Russia did it" conspiracy theory.

 

[Marduk]

I love how you are still doubling down on the "Russia did it" conspiracy theory.

No i'm not. As i said, i don't know, and you people who say "i know it USA did it!" know even less, you just repeat shit that fits your pre-assumed agenda conveniently and don't give a damn about anything else. Whoever did it, knew that the list of potential suspects is long and will be hard to file down to one.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Love it how some "right wingers" are willing to take big name leftist journo scum at their word, but only when they join in on simping for Putin-senpai.

Wasn't taking him at his word, until SD proved him right by launching a half-assed ''Ukrainian rogue agents did it'' cover story. But then such nuances are lost on the likes of you, so soy harder, maybe State Depertment will notice your incessant shilling and reward you with a headpat.

 

[Marduk]

Wasn't taking him at his word, until SD proved him right by launching a half-assed ''Ukrainian rogue agents did it'' cover story.

Yeah, SD, because Germany and other countries have no journo shits making clickbait, only SD can post dumb clickbait stories into the ether... Get real, we both know that with a little conspirationist bullshitry you can support any narrative in any situation, but you should know that this won't convince anyone with even half a functional brain to your pet theory.

But then such nuances are lost on the likes of you, so soy harder, maybe State Depertment will notice your incessant shilling and reward you with a headpat.

"nuances"
LMAO. You want to talk nuances?

 

[LordsFire]

Use your head. That pipeline was a source of both foreign revenue and diplomatic/economic leverage for the Russians. What would they gain by blowing it up?

1. Removal of internal political pressure to end the war so that the money from Germany can keep flowing in.
2. Justification for doubling-down on the war.
3. Sending a *message* to the Germans about the cost of disobeying Russia.

That pipeline was source of gas cheaper than they could get elsewhere for the Germans. What would they gain from blowing it up?

1. It was utterly politically unacceptable to not oppose Russia, and largely still is in Germany. This removed a financial incentive to backslide on what was not politically acceptable.
2. Sending a *message* to the Russians about how far you're willing to go if they refuse to play by the rules.


There are a lot of potential motives for a lot of different national actors, and actors within nations who want to give support or deal damage to any given political cause.


We've had a fair number of 'Ah, this means that X definitely did it' 'reveals' over the last year. At this point, I don't know if I'll trust any 'reveal' until after the war is over, and the political furor has died down enough that the consequences of the truth are no longer dangerous enough to keep everyone from obscuring the truth.


I still hold to the position of 'Literally anyone with any interest in the war or the pipeline could have done it.'

 

[Husky_Khan]

Unironically asking for apologies for disagreeing on an internet forum is extremely hilarious. Imagine feeling so aggrieved that your asking for emotional recompensation months later.

 

[Terthna]

Unironically asking for apologies for disagreeing on an internet forum is extremely hilarious. Imagine feeling so aggrieved that your asking for emotional recompensation months later.

A disagreement is one thing, but you can't deny that the conversation around the subject of Ukraine has been incredibly heated; to the point where things have frequently devolved into personal attacks. I mean, not more than a few posts above yours, Marduk is accusing anyone who thinks this story about Ukranians being behind the blowing up of the Nord Stream pipeline might be true of "simping for Putin-senpai". That goes well beyond the threshold of something appropriate for a mere disagreement, and approaches the point of becoming outright slander in the name of trying to discredit those who disagree with you; which is perfectly reasonable to expect an apology for, especially when the evidence is on your side.

 

[Captain X]

I'm still remembering in the lead-up how many of the cheerleaders for Russia/Putin insisted that Russia wasn't going to attack Ukraine right up to the moment that they did.

 

[DarthOne]

I'm still remembering in the lead-up how many of the cheerleaders for Russia/Putin insisted that Russia wasn't going to attack Ukraine right up to the moment that they did.

To be fair pretty much no one actually expected Russia to do that if memory serves.

 

[Terthna]

I'm still remembering in the lead-up how many of the cheerleaders for Russia/Putin insisted that Russia wasn't going to attack Ukraine right up to the moment that they did.

To be fair, it hasn't exactly turned out all that well for Russia; and expecting people to act in their own self-interest rationally is a common mistake.

 

[Husky_Khan]

A disagreement is one thing, but you can't deny that the conversation around the subject of Ukraine has been incredibly heated; to the point where things have frequently devolved into personal attacks. I mean, not more than a few posts above yours, Marduk is accusing anyone who thinks this story about Ukranians being behind the blowing up of the Nord Stream pipeline might be true of "simping for Putin-senpai". That goes well beyond the threshold of something appropriate for a mere disagreement, and approaches the point of becoming outright slander in the name of trying to discredit those who disagree with you; which is perfectly reasonable to expect an apology for, especially when the evidence is on your side.

Indeed. I remember to the lead up of the conflict the many people who said Russia would never invade Ukraine and posting memes and insulting people over it and yet when it occurred I never thought "Oh golly gee! I deserve an apology because you were wrong. Imma gonna post about it after taking my pants off."

If people want to masturbate to themselves they should hit the gym if looking at a mirror isn't working.

Because again asking for apologies for just an argument on the internet months ago is funny/sad IMHO.

 

[Marduk]

A disagreement is one thing, but you can't deny that the conversation around the subject of Ukraine has been incredibly heated; to the point where things have frequently devolved into personal attacks. I mean, not more than a few posts above yours, Marduk is accusing anyone who thinks this story about Ukranians being behind the blowing up of the Nord Stream pipeline might be true of "simping for Putin-senpai".

No, i'm accusing everyone yelling that they just know USA blew up NS because reasons (insert a bunch of half assed conspirationist logic jumps) of "simping for Putin-senpai".
In fact on this very page on the thread i outright said that the Ukraine variant is more plausible than accusing USA of it, so do you even read my posts before whining about them?
And if you look at the activity of those specific posters in Ukraine and Russia related threads, you will see that they do absolutely nothing to invalidate that theory.

That goes well beyond the threshold of something appropriate for a mere disagreement, and approaches the point of becoming outright slander in the name of trying to discredit those who disagree with you; which is perfectly reasonable to expect an apology for,

Can the supposedly victimized people raise their hands and make a good argument that they are very much against Russian geopolitical victories in Europe based on their past posting as opposed to being sympathetic towards that prospect?

especially when the evidence is on your side.

What fucking evidence? Challenge me.

 

[Bacle]

Use your head. That pipeline was a source of both foreign revenue and diplomatic/economic leverage for the Russians. What would they gain by blowing it up?
That pipeline was source of gas cheaper than they could get elsewhere for the Germans. What would they gain from blowing it up?

But for the Americans? Specifically, for the sociopathic globalists of the Biden administration?
By blowing up the pipeline, they deprive Russia of that income and leverage. They also harm the economy of Germany, thereby weakening the whole EU relative to the USA. And they want the EU to be politically and economically subordinate to the USA.

Don't blow smoke about some mystery Russian faction that you have no other evidence of.

Well, the 'energy reproachment' faction in Russia and Germany had been making noises about keeping Europe as an energy customer before then.

After that, well, they couldn't make the money selling gas to Europe anymore the easy way they had been before, with only 1 of 4 pipes able to function (and that's what the media doesn't say, that one pipe is still running).

So the pro-invasion faction in Russia got handed a win in keeping any energy deal from disrupting the genocide they wanted to under take.

Regardless of who actually did it, and why; I wonder if any apologies are going to be made to the people who even so much as suggested that it might not have been Russia, and got raked over the coals for it?

A disagreement is one thing, but you can't deny that the conversation around the subject of Ukraine has been incredibly heated; to the point where things have frequently devolved into personal attacks. I mean, not more than a few posts above yours, Marduk is accusing anyone who thinks this story about Ukranians being behind the blowing up of the Nord Stream pipeline might be true of "simping for Putin-senpai". That goes well beyond the threshold of something appropriate for a mere disagreement, and approaches the point of becoming outright slander in the name of trying to discredit those who disagree with you; which is perfectly reasonable to expect an apology for, especially when the evidence is on your side.

There is still the Russian ship that was over the pipeline area before the blasts.

The tiff over it inside Ukraine itself is the first thing that I saw which actually made me think anyone in Ukraine had ordered or done anything related to it.

I mean different factions in Ukraine, Russia, the US, and NATO in general who stood to benefit from those pipes being blown and that connection to the European markets/western money cut. Only people who didn't benefit were some western friendly oligarchs in Russia and some Russian-friendly German businessmen who still wanted to trade with the Bear.

I now think it may be a case of that one Polandball meme where multiple countries put bombs on the pipes for different reasons.

What I'd be really interested to learn is where the 1 surviving pipe leads to and who is buying that gas.

Credit to @Marduk for laying that all out.

I'm still remembering in the lead-up how many of the cheerleaders for Russia/Putin insisted that Russia wasn't going to attack Ukraine right up to the moment that they did.

To be fair pretty much no one actually expected Russia to do that if memory serves.

To be fair, it hasn't exactly turned out all that well for Russia; and expecting people to act in their own self-interest rationally is a common mistake.

We have to give credit to @Zachowon for calling it for over a month before hand.

Even I didn't think it was really happening till that bridge suddenly went up on the Belarusian side of the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone and the 1st Guards Tank Army showed up in Belgorod at about the same time.