Nord Stream 1 and 2 Attacked

[Marduk]

Because in spite of all of my misgivings, and my attempts to educate on the context behind this conflict, all I ask for is some sort of accountability; some oversight regarding the money and equipment my country sends to Ukraine. Not even necessarily to ensure that we don't send them too much, but that as little of it as possible is wasted, or diverted by those looking to enrich themselves. But you; you can't abide that sort of caution, not even to the smallest degree. You want America to throw any and all caution to the wind in propping up your own country's interests in the region; which I wouldn't even begrudge you for, if you weren't so thoroughly dishonest about your true intentions.

FFS, this stubborn, long lasting use of the whole "but no oversight" talking point means you either are writing about something you have no idea about and no interest in getting one, yet you do it, or are playing some stupid game. I don't know where exactly you got the idea that there isn't any oversight regarding the aid and nothing is stopping Ukraine from selling off newest western toys to Africa or ME, but i do know who exactly puts a lot of effort into the spread of such ideas and for what purpose.

You don't give a crap about Ukraine; you just want to see Russia bleed.

Interesting point, what the hell do you think Ukraine wants now?
Do you think Ukraine, and especially its soldiers who currently fight, want nothing more but for the western aid to be paused until enough bureaucracy is applied to it to make fence sitters who whine about "NATO encroachment on Russia" satisfied enough to put away their anxieties? Do you really think they want that?

 

[ATP]

Regardless of who actually did it, and why; I wonder if any apologies are going to be made to the people who even so much as suggested that it might not have been Russia, and got raked over the coals for it?

Of course.It would happen when STARS WOULD BE RIGHT.Cthultu would raise and made apology to them.

 

[Grimalkin]

FFS, this stubborn, long lasting use of the whole "but no oversight" talking point means you either are writing about something you have no idea about and no interest in getting one, yet you do it, or are playing some stupid game. I don't know where exactly you got the idea that there isn't any oversight regarding the aid and nothing is stopping Ukraine from selling off newest western toys to Africa or ME, but i do know who exactly puts a lot of effort into the spread of such ideas and for what purpose.

No it just means that he has a somewhat realistic view of the American war industry and Ukraine in general, because they fucking are selling their newest toys to Africa and the Middle East. What the fuck did you think an institutionally corrupt post-soviet nation was going to with all those weapons?

It's that Santa Claus mentality rearing its ugly little head again, how often do you have to be reminded that the Tooth Fairy doesn't fucking exist?

Interesting point, what the hell do you think Ukraine wants now?
Do you think Ukraine, and especially its soldiers who currently fight, want nothing more but for the western aid to be paused until enough bureaucracy is applied to it to make fence sitters who whine about "NATO encroachment on Russia" satisfied enough to put away their anxieties? Do you really think they want that?

I think they want permission from the West to make peace, rather than having the treaty negotiations shot down by western muppets like Boris Johnson. Not that I actually give a shit, as far as I'm concerned Ukraine is in the same category as Palestine, and they deserve everything that's happening to them.

 

[Marduk]

No it just means that he has a somewhat realistic view of the American war industry and Ukraine in general, because they fucking are selling their newest toys to Africa and the Middle East. What the fuck did you think an institutionally corrupt post-soviet nation was going to with all those weapons?

It's that Santa Claus mentality rearing its ugly little head again, how often do you have to be reminded that the Tooth Fairy doesn't fucking exist?

Only in Russian propaganda, they had a few crude tries facilitated with captured infantry weapons but stopped when no one important fell for it, only some retards on the internet.
You don't see Stugnas or Starstreaks showing up in Africa, that's a fact.
If they are selling something off, it's less necessary and more deniable shit, ideally battlefield captures, so if it pops up in the news they can blame Russians easily as the serial numbers would track to them.

I think they want permission from the West to make peace, rather than having the treaty negotiations shot down by western muppets like Boris Johnson. Not that I actually give a shit, as far as I'm concerned Ukraine is in the same category as Palestine, and they deserve everything that's happening to them.

"negotiations"
If they went through, Ukraine would have had a worse problem than with continuing the war, and would have missed out on Kherson.
Hot take, Russia is harder to deal with for Ukraine in negotiations and cloak and dagger shit than on the battlefield. On battlefield, it's all about weapons, soldiers, technology.
But in negotiations and shady business, half the western politicians suddenly turn into wet noodles that play for the other team. This is why Ukraine wants to push the damage to Russian armed forces, war weariness and public opinion as much as possible. Ukraine after the war cannot afford to maintain the readiness needed to live with a damocles sword of "Russian invasion redo any moment now) indefinitely. They can have peace only when Russia is sure to give them at minimum 10 years of guaranteed break, if not lay off the ambition to expand there long term. Current estimate is 5-6 years.

 

[Grimalkin]

Only in Russian propaganda, they had a few crude tries facilitated with captured infantry weapons but stopped when no one important fell for it, only some retards on the internet.
You don't see Stugnas or Starstreaks showing up in Africa, that's a fact.
If they are selling something off, it's less necessary and more deniable shit, ideally battlefield captures, so if it pops up in the news they can blame Russians easily as the serial numbers would track to them.

Yes it's mostly just Hamas, if Ukraine and Russia have one thing in common it's their support for Hamas.

"negotiations"
If they went through, Ukraine would have had a worse problem than with continuing the war, and would have missed out on Kherson.
Hot take, Russia is harder to deal with for Ukraine in negotiations and cloak and dagger shit than on the battlefield. On battlefield, it's all about weapons, soldiers, technology.
But in negotiations and shady business, half the western politicians suddenly turn into wet noodles that play for the other team. This is why Ukraine wants to push the damage to Russian armed forces, war weariness and public opinion as much as possible. Ukraine after the war cannot afford to maintain the readiness needed to live with a damocles sword of "Russian invasion redo any moment now) indefinitely. They can have peace only when Russia is sure to give them at minimum 10 years of guaranteed break, if not lay off the ambition to expand there long term. Current estimate is 5-6 years.

Hot take, the peace agreement that Russia offered was always meant to be turned down so that Russia could say to it's own citizens that they offered peace and Ukraine refused. The fact that they were turned down just played into their hands.

Another hot take, Russia never meant for this to be a short invasion where they'd take over Kiev in less than a week. They always meant for this to be a meatgrinder and they're currently getting everything they ever wanted from this war.

The Wagner Group has been defanged, a lot of the minority groups recruited into the army have been cut in half, and if you look at military officer casualties you'd probably find that most of the people killed were the people Putin's administration wanted dead. And the male Ukrainian population has been severely depopulated and will soon leave a vacuum that's to be filled by other ethnic groups in a balkanization effort by Russia to leave a fractured buffer state between them and the rest of Europe.

As for your current estimate, you seem to be either incapable of pattern recognition or perhaps you're too young to remember the western backed wars that took place the last 60 years.

It's a simple fucking rule, if the war is going somewhat good then you're not losing, if the war is going too fucking good then they're lying and you're losing disastrously.

 

[Marduk]

Yes it's mostly just Hamas, if Ukraine and Russia have one thing in common it's their support for Hamas.

Where the fuck do you get Ukraine supporting Hamas, did you fall for that FSB psyop?

Hot take, the peace agreement that Russia offered was always meant to be turned down so that Russia could say to it's own citizens that they offered peace and Ukraine refused. The fact that they were turned down just played into their hands.

Another hot take, Russia never meant for this to be a short invasion where they'd take over Kiev in less than a week. They always meant for this to be a meatgrinder and they're currently getting everything they ever wanted from this war.

Pointless. They could have had a meatgrinder anywhere else if they wanted one.

The Wagner Group has been defanged, a lot of the minority groups recruited into the army have been cut in half, and if you look at military officer casualties you'd probably find that most of the people killed were the people Putin's administration wanted dead. And the male Ukrainian population has been severely depopulated and will soon leave a vacuum that's to be filled by other ethnic groups in a balkanization effort by Russia to leave a fractured buffer state between them and the rest of Europe.

As above. Ukraine's demographics are as fucked as those of ethnic Russians anyway, depopulaated, LMAO, lay off the vatnik copium that they lost millions or something, it rots your brain. Both sides will run out of hardware and specialists way before they run out of manpower, it would take over a decade for that to happen even at current rates, anyone who can run the basic numbers knows it, anyone who doesn't, protip, they are liars or too stupid to talk to about this stuff. Also who the hell do you think will move to war torn Ukraine anyway, certainly not Europe's diverse social welfare hunters, if they wanted to live in a poor country they would have stayed home.

As for Wagner, they got what fangs they had because of the war in the first place.

As for your current estimate, you seem to be either incapable of pattern recognition or perhaps you're too young to remember the western backed wars that took place the last 60 years.

Don't give me the lefty "muh forever wars" mythology, it's retarded and merely referring to it makes me think less of you.

It's a simple fucking rule, if the war is going somewhat good then you're not losing, if the war is going too fucking good then they're lying and you're losing disastrously.

Nice take for edgy teenagers, real politics are more complicated.

 

[Grimalkin]

Where the fuck do you get Ukraine supporting Hamas, did you fall for that FSB psyop?

Well it's mostly Ukraine top officials selling weapons to Iran, which then sells or gives those weapons to Hamas.

Pointless. They could have had a meatgrinder anywhere else if they wanted one.

Again, that's a fucking idiotic take that can be dispelled by simply looking at a map. They want a meatgrinder in Ukraine to cripple them for the next several generations.

As above. Ukraine's demographics are as fucked as those of ethnic Russians anyway, depopulaated, LMAO, lay off the vatnik copium that they lost millions or something, it rots your brain. Both sides will run out of hardware and specialists way before they run out of manpower, it would take over a decade for that to happen even at current rates, anyone who can run the basic numbers knows it, anyone who doesn't, protip, they are liars or too stupid to talk to about this stuff. Also who the hell do you think will move to war torn Ukraine anyway, certainly not Europe's diverse social welfare hunters, if they wanted to live in a poor country they would have stayed home.

Ukraine has some of the best farmland in the fucking world, finding people of diverse ethnicities that want to move there isn't exactly going to be fucking hard. And your entire presumption that this is going to take over decade is based on your governments propaganda about the casualty numbers, which they've lied about since fucking Vietnam.

Russia is just dumping its expired military stock and their belligerent minorities, as well as the Wagner Group which was essentially just a powerful independent military group.

As for Wagner, they got what fangs they had because of the war in the first place.

No, they were getting too fucking strong which is why Putin sent them there to bleed them. It's not exactly a new phenomenon for dictators to be wary of overly strong mercenary forces within their country.

Don't give me the lefty "muh forever wars" mythology, it's retarded and merely referring to it makes me think less of you.

Lefty my ass, you're just a populist little shit with the long-term memory of a goldfish.

Nice take for edgy teenagers, real politics are more complicated.

No they really fucking aren't, they're generally not complicated at all. People that try to complicate this shit are usually either trying to lie to you or themselves.

 

[Marduk]

Well it's mostly Ukraine top officials selling weapons to Iran, which then sells or gives those weapons to Hamas.

Bull fucking shit. Ukraine has beef with Iran over the Russia support, out of all countries, it would not be them.

Again, that's a fucking idiotic take that can be dispelled by simply looking at a map. They want a meatgrinder in Ukraine to cripple them for the next several generations.

WTF do they care about crippling Ukraine? Also Ukraine is less crippled militarily than it was in 2014, all thanks to Russia making itself a very obvious enemy, which Ukraine didn't have before, so it could have an underfunded half functional military.

Ukraine has some of the best farmland in the fucking world, finding people of diverse ethnicities that want to move there isn't exactly going to be fucking hard. And your entire presumption that this is going to take over decade is based on your governments propaganda about the casualty numbers, which they've lied about since fucking Vietnam.

Yes it is. Look at profit margins and salaries in agriculture in a second world country. Ukraine competes at farming cheap staples in bulk, which the good farmland allows by needing less of expensive chems, and being cheaper source than anyone else for third world, the owners may be kinda rich, though not that rich by western elite standards, but the workers, LMAO, what idiot you got that idea from.
It's not the work "doctors and engineers" came for, they could be poor while doing manual labor back home too, they don't need to do it in a foreign country with new language and alien culture.
And no, i don't care about vatnik fantasy casualty numbers, even if the West massages numbers, if you believe what Kremlin says, there's no hope for you.

Russia is just dumping its expired military stock and their belligerent minorities, as well as the Wagner Group which was essentially just a powerful independent military group.

LMAO. Look at the ages of the weapons being lost and at the obituaries of the actually valuable dead officers. Wagner got powerful to begin with because they got the armories opened to them... when they joined the Ukraine war, tanks, artillery, heavy weapons, all the good shit, in addition to massive recruitment fund for both volunteers and convict access. Before that they were glorified Blackwater in Syria and had no major force in Russia.

No, they were getting too fucking strong which is why Putin sent them there to bleed them. It's not exactly a new phenomenon for dictators to be wary of overly strong mercenary forces within their country.

Thanks for demonstrating again that you don't know what you are talking about and just say whatever fits your favorite conspiracy logic. More numbers, less crazy theories.
5k is not overly strong by the standards of any major country. 50k is getting spicy. And that happened only during the war, as first they got their core expanded with veterans thanks to big funding injection, and when that ran out, they got granted access to prisons, where they got their main expansion from.

Lefty my ass, you're just a populist little shit with the long-term memory of a goldfish.

Memory of a goldfish would be an upgrade for you because most of the stuff you remember is bullshit like the stuff you are throwing at me right here, so if you remembered that you know jack shit, that would be a step towards wisdom.

No they really fucking aren't, they're generally not complicated at all. People that try to complicate this shit are usually either trying to lie to you or themselves.

Cool story dude.

 

[Zachowon]

Hey remember when Wagner attacked a US oil platform in Syria.

Yeah....

 

[mrttao]

US oil platform in Syria.

...
> Shut down USA oil production
> Send your soldiers to steal the oil of other countries instead
> Launder the profits through private companies owned by oligarch buddies

Remember, looting is illegal according to modern international law...
Except when the oligarchs order the military to do it for them. then it is perfectly legal and good.

 

[Zachowon]

I am not here to argue for US actions in Syria.
Just what Wagner tried

 

[Scottty]

I think they want permission from the West to make peace, rather than having the treaty negotiations shot down by western muppets like Boris Johnson.

That did happen.

Not that I actually give a shit, as far as I'm concerned Ukraine is in the same category as Palestine, and they deserve everything that's happening to them.

I would have liked your post, were it not for this last bit.

 

[Grimalkin]

I would have liked your post, were it not for this last bit.

Well then I suppose it's good that I don't really give a shit whether you like my post or not. I'm not pro-america or pro-russia, I'm just anti-moron. And that's what Ukraine and Palestine have in common, they're both muppet states that are incapable of looking after their own self interest.

 

[Scottty]

Well then I suppose it's good that I don't really give a shit whether you like my post or not. I'm not pro-america or pro-russia, I'm just anti-moron. And that's what Ukraine and Palestine have in common, they're both muppet states that are incapable of looking after their own self interest.

The Ukrainian people did not choose their current government. It was imposed on them from outside, by means of a "color revolution". That is why the Donbas region seceded, and why Russia got pulled into it due something they seem to believe to be their duty: protecting Russian minorities left behind after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

As to "Palestine", I think you are conflating the Gaza Strip with the West Bank. Those two regions are not actually ruled by the same group of people.

 

[Marduk]

The Ukrainian people did not choose their current government. It was imposed on them from outside, by means of a "color revolution". That is why the Donbas region seceded, and why Russia got pulled into it due something they seem to believe to be their duty: protecting Russian minorities left behind after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

As to "Palestine", I think you are conflating the Gaza Strip with the West Bank. Those two regions are not actually ruled by the same group of people.

It's ridiculous that you can be so sure that Ukrainians totally didn't want their current government, no matter what polls, next elections, or even the tribute in blood they pay fighting Russia rather than scurrying away shows, but at the same time be convinced that the Donbass rebellion, oh that was totally organic, ignore the publicly identified "former" FSB officers hanging around if from earliest days.
And of course the first thing they did since the war began is to order the local recruited grunts to storm Ukrainian positions with insufficient support to kill off the "uncertain element" mostly consisting of various troublemakers that the Russian state doesn't feel like taking with itself into the future, and then drafted all local men to do the same with them, such protection, much care. That's more in line with the character of Russian government, not noble "protection of own minority", LMAO, they don't even care about own citizens more than they need to keep them from rebelling, nevermind some people over the border.

The only reason Donbass seceded is that a bunch of veteren intelligence operatives infiltrated there and recruited some local criminals and simps eager to raise hell for fun and profit as grunts.
Fuck, one of the officers organizing this operation even already gave interview in a newspaper about it, but guess those are not read by the same people who read their propaganda in variation targeted to westerners.

Girkin says he and his special ops team started conflict in Donbas

Igor Girkin, the one-time “defense minister” of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, has said that he and his squad of Russian special services soldiers started the war in east Ukraine.

www.unian.info

 

[Zachowon]

The joke about Russian little green men is not far from the truth.
Cause it is the truth.
The Russians has a bunch of soldiers "vacationing" in Ukraine in 2014

 

[The Whispering Monk]

That is why the Donbas region seceded, and why Russia got pulled into it due something they seem to believe to be their duty: protecting Russian minorities left behind after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

@Marduk already ninja's most of what I was going to say.

I'll just add this: If you think Russia was acting in some sort of heroic effort to protect its once-and-future-citizens...I've got some lovely land to sell you. Hit me up at bestafricanprince@thisissoreal.af

 

[Grimalkin]

The Ukrainian people did not choose their current government. It was imposed on them from outside, by means of a "color revolution". That is why the Donbas region seceded, and why Russia got pulled into it due something they seem to believe to be their duty: protecting Russian minorities left behind after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

As to "Palestine", I think you are conflating the Gaza Strip with the West Bank. Those two regions are not actually ruled by the same group of people.

But the Ukrainian people did choose their government, either by actively participating in the revolution or by passively participating in the revolution by not stopping it. I don't believe in this age-old obfuscation of guilt where we categorise people as innocent just because they didn't personally choose their own government, or because they didn't personally participate in atrocities.

If a society commits a crime or commits suicide, then all the members of that society are responsible to varying degrees, whether it's a dictatorship, or a democracy, or even a monarchy.

It's ridiculous that you can be so sure that Ukrainians totally didn't want their current government, no matter what polls, next elections, or even the tribute in blood they pay fighting Russia rather than scurrying away shows, but at the same time be convinced that the Donbass rebellion, oh that was totally organic, ignore the publicly identified "former" FSB officers hanging around if from earliest days.
And of course the first thing they did since the war began is to order the local recruited grunts to storm Ukrainian positions with insufficient support to kill off the "uncertain element" mostly consisting of various troublemakers that the Russian state doesn't feel like taking with itself into the future, and then drafted all local men to do the same with them, such protection, much care. That's more in line with the character of Russian government, not noble "protection of own minority", LMAO, they don't even care about own citizens more than they need to keep them from rebelling, nevermind some people over the border.

Well I agree that if the Ukrainians really didn't want it then they should have overthrown it. But this notion that the polls or elections are actually legitimate in Ukraine, well there's the small problem that we literally have Victoria Nuland on tape deciding who the next President was going to be.

As for the actual motivation for this, honestly it's the same as back in the Georgian War, in fact this entire war is just a fucking replay of the Russo-Georgian war on a bigger scale. Which is why I don't pity the Ukranians, because what was going to happen to them was fucking obvious.

 

[Marduk]

Well I agree that if the Ukrainians really didn't want it then they should have overthrown it. But this notion that the polls or elections are actually legitimate in Ukraine, well there's the small problem that we literally have Victoria Nuland on tape deciding who the next President was going to be.

No, that's not exactly what was on that tape.
Quote it for me. I will not take journo tricks from you, better journos than you try all the time.

As for the actual motivation for this, honestly it's the same as back in the Georgian War, in fact this entire war is just a fucking replay of the Russo-Georgian war on a bigger scale. Which is why I don't pity the Ukranians, because what was going to happen to them was fucking obvious.

Cool story bro. But... apples to oranges. For one Ukraine is a country over an order of magnitude larger than Georgia, both in size and population, so there are bound to be differences, which is why Russia still didn't "obviously win" like you put it, even though in Georgia it didn't take years, not a week even.

 

[AmosTrask]

Ukraine is in the same category as Palestine, and they deserve everything that's happening to them

That right there. You're now in the same category as Daesh and Marcos Sr. In my book. I wish you all the misfortune and wroth possible to suffer. Fucking Communist Bandit!