LGBT and the US Conservative Movement

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
OK, at least you recognize a lot of the stuff was literally out of his ability to do, as in, not even in the purview of the power of the President type stuff.

Well no shit:p but that's because I bothered to study how this country works and why it works, or at least worked up until the 1960s any way. It's sort of shambles now but thats still better than literally every other country on earth.

My issues with Trump was his unwillingness to take on the Bureaucracy until it was too late and his willingness to remove Bannon and oust all the people that got him there and negotiate with snakes.

I wasn't a fan of his red flag shit either but yeah no, I do have an understanding of civics :ROFLMAO:

I was simply explaining their position not mine.

Honestly though, I think they should feel less betrayed by Trump than by the Bureaucratic Establishment.

Yes, 100% in agreement with you here.

I've been saying this since I joined and I've been arguing this for a decade. The problem crippling the US are the "public servants". The unelected eggheads and activist judges.
Even had he tried to actively use the FBI to go after actual legit enemies of the United States, given how thoroughly Obama had corrupted it, they likely would never have (just look at how they continued Crossfire Hurricane), to say nothing of some of the other things that would be clearly illegal under the US' system.

Not that I'm interested in defending Obama but let's be honest S'task the FBI has been rotten to the core since it was the Bureau of investigation.

Hoover was a degenerate and a viciously cynical, power hungry jackal and the only reason why the Bureau had the reputation it had was due to the people they went after often being even worse than them.

But you don't gleefully massacre children to salvage your wounded pride or frame Cuban American exiles whose only "crime" was humiliating the Bureau.

The rot was there long before Barry, but you're right that he turned it loose and made it so much worse.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Well no shit:p but that's because I bothered to study how this country works and why it works, or at least worked up until the 1960s any way. It's sort of shambles now but thats still better than literally every other country on earth.

My issues with Trump was his unwillingness to take on the Bureaucracy until it was too late and his willingness to remove Bannon and oust all the people that got him there and negotiate with snakes.

I wasn't a fan of his red flag shit either but yeah no, I do have an understanding of civics :ROFLMAO:

I was simply explaining their position not mine.



Yes, 100% in agreement with you here.

I've been saying this since I joined and I've been arguing this for a decade. The problem crippling the US are the "public servants". The unelected eggheads and activist judges.


Not that I'm interested in defending Obama but let's be honest S'task the FBI has been rotten to the core since it was the Bureau of investigation.

Hoover was a degenerate and a viciously cynical, power hungry jackal and the only reason why the Bureau had the reputation it had was due to the people they went after often being even worse than them.

But you don't gleefully massacre children to salvage your wounded pride or frame Cuban American exiles whose only "crime" was humiliating the Bureau.

The rot was there long before Barry, but you're right that he turned it loose and made it so much worse.

you know maybe we should think about scrapping the FBI all together. It might be easier to do that then attempt to reform it.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Yes? But not because it's about being gay.

Consider the framework of Christianity, within that idea who defines Sin is not Christians or even the Church, but God.

So they would be, functionally, saying that they know better than God what is and what is not Sinful. Which well, means that they're committing one Sin, minimally Pride, but may even rise to Blasphemy in the literal definition: "the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God" or "the act of claiming the attributes of a deity" (being able to define what is and is not a sin is an attribute of a deity), to justify another Sin.

Now, to note, none of these Sins are Unforgivable or end up causing a person to lose Salvation, but they would definitely be living in continual sin. And, as I noted, this applies to ANY Sin where a person decides they know better and decide what is defined as a Sin is no longer a Sin.
The problem is that Christians can't even agree on what god does and does not consider a sin; even though they're all working from the same text, they all have vastly different interpretations on what it says, and like to pick and choose which parts they believe in. It's one of the reasons why there are so many denominations. Some would argue seeing a doctor is a sin; others, that using any technology more advanced than a horse-drawn carriage is a sin. Heck; I've read the Bible, and I recall seeing a passage that proscribed crop rotation, though I couldn't quote it to you. Then there's the prohibitions against shaving your facial hair and eating pork or crustaceans; things most Christians agree they shouldn't treat as sins, even though it's in the Bible that they are.

As for homosexuality, the only part I've been able to find that specifically denotes it as a sin is in a direct quote from Paul; so that may have just been his personal opinion. Everywhere else in the Bible, in the parts that most people quote as evidence for why homosexuality is sinful, it's specifically talking about sodomy being a sin, NOT homosexuality. In other words, the act of sticking your dick in another dude's mouth in and of itself isn't a sin, according to the Bible, but putting it in a woman's butt, is. Unless of course you take the view that any sexual act that doesn't result in pregnancy is sinful, even if you happen to be married; and that marriage can only exist between a man and a woman. Neither of which every Christian believes.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
you know maybe we should think about scrapping the FBI all together. It might be easier to do that then attempt to reform it.

Most of the original G men were people Hoover fucked. He basically used the Bureau both as a massive blackmail gathering operation to advance an agenda and to buy the silence of his fuckboys with a job.

Lecherous old reprobate that he was.

So yeah shut it down, or castrate it And leave it as a gigantic criminal and forensic database but that's about it.

Any more power and you go back to the catamite machine that thinks gassing a room full of children and ordering agents into a burning building to head tap the survivors is a gold way to redeem yourself in the public eye.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
The problem is that Christians can't even agree on what god does and does not consider a sin; even though they're all working from the same text, they all have vastly different interpretations on what it says, and like to pick and choose which parts they believe in. It's one of the reasons why there are so many denominations. Some would argue seeing a doctor is a sin; others, that using any technology more advanced than a horse-drawn carriage is a sin. Heck; I've read the Bible, and I recall seeing a passage that proscribed crop rotation, though I couldn't quote it to you. Then there's the prohibitions against shaving your facial hair and eating pork or crustaceans; things most Christians agree they shouldn't treat as sins, even though it's in the Bible that they are.

As for homosexuality, the only part I've been able to find that specifically denotes it as a sin is in a direct quote from Paul; so that may have just been his personal opinion. Everywhere else in the Bible, in the parts that most people quote as evidence for why homosexuality is sinful, it's specifically talking about sodomy being a sin, NOT homosexuality. In other words, the act of sticking your dick in another dude's mouth in and of itself isn't a sin, according to the Bible, but putting it in a woman's butt, is. Unless of course you take the view that any sexual act that doesn't result in pregnancy is sinful, even if you happen to be married; and that marriage can only exist between a man and a woman. Neither of which every Christian believes.
You hit on a good point 'Christian Conservatives' like to...leave out of the arguments related to the Bible, and sin, and that is the fact there are so many versions, so many different offshoots, and so many blatant contridictions in the text that.

Look, historical fan fiction is a nice way to put it.

There was probably a guy named Abraham who...I'm not really sure how much has been independently verified by other historical sources to have been actually done by him, rather than attributed to him.

The Flood myth was probably a twisted telephone game retelling of the opening on the Aegen Sea into the Black Sea in pre-history, mixed with both Nile and Tirgris/Euphrates flooding events.

I think the Sodom and Gamorrah story was a parable crafted from a survivor's story about a meteor airburst over part of the Dead Sea area where some trade hubs were, that happened to have all the normal debauchery towns like that had in that time. They've found trinitite samples in the area, and the only way to make that mineral is with either meteor hits or nuke groundbursts, and there's no abnormal rads in that area.

The Plagues of Egypt were likely the result of a series of volcanic eruptions in the Med and Cameroon fucking with the weather, spewing invisible clouds of poison gas close to the ground in some areas, and causing a cascade of environmental disruptions.

The whole 'wonder the desert for 40 years thing' after they found that town, and decided not to attack, and was probably the Hebrews just building up forces to make the attack work, as it could give them another 2 generations of bodies to field while they kept an eye on the target.

There probably was a Jewish dude named Jesus who lived around 1AD, who lived in what is now Israel and Egypt, who ended up with a following when he started cleaning house at the Temple, who defied the Romans as a messianic figure leading a local rebellion, and got crucified for it. His followers survived and rallied in his name, working underground to keep the group alive and recruit new members, till Justinian made it state religion after winning a battle after he supposedly prayed to a cross shaped image in the sky. Then it kinda snowballed from there, with early sects that were 'heretical' to mainline dogma/political desires splitting off and infighting occurring for a while.

That doesn't even count the whole 'stealing pagan symbols and rituals to gain converts' bit that many Christian sect have done, the Christians who decided that the Bible said it was ok to enslave their fellow man, just because he had a different skin color.

All of this feeds into why we must have secular laws, and not let any religion dictate public policy. Because no religion has a monopoly on historical truth, moral superiority, ethical behavior, holiness, or righteousness.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
I'm sorry to inform you that trans people are not a "new thing" and in fact considerably predate the Western gay rights movement.

As much as Shadow annoys me at times He/she/Zer is correct on this issue, trans people have bee a thing for a good chunk of recorded features with India having a trans caste that is centuries old, and with some trans people becoming successful madams in the old west.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
I'm sorry to inform you that trans people are not a "new thing" and in fact considerably predate the Western gay rights movement.

Yeah sure...lets just lump all those cultural and religious and ceremonial rolls together to fit a narrative that caters to one of the most violently unstable and pedophilia proned elements of an incredibly unstable bloque of ultra minorities...

That's totally an honest and legitimate and not racist thing to do.

As much as Shadow annoys me at times He/she/Zer is correct on this issue, trans people have bee a thing for a good chunk of recorded features with India having a trans caste that is centuries old, and with some trans people becoming successful madams in the old west.

Fuck preferred pronouns
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Yeah sure...lets just lump all those cultural and religious and ceremonial rolls together to fit a narrative that caters to one of the most violently unstable and pedophilia proned elements of an incredibly unstable bloque of ultra minorities...

That's totally an honest and legitimate and not racist thing to do.

The very fact that trans people exist throughout history and across a diverse array of cultures is exactly what demonstrates that no, it's not something recently made up by Western "ultra minorities".

Also, if you're going to claim that trans people are "violently unstable" and "pedophilia prone", it behooves you to present actual evidence.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
The very fact that trans people exist throughout history and across a diverse array of cultures is exactly what demonstrates that no, it's not something recently made up by Western "ultra minorities".[]

Yes severe neurological defects have existed since before we even evolved into homosapiens,...bastardizing Egyptian Culture to say they glorified Troons and the other nonsense done to support the modern ritualized genital mutilation movement is nothing but a perverse absurdity and a violent attack on ancient cultures.


Also, if you're going to claim that trans people are "violently unstable" and "pedophilia prone", it behooves you to present actual evidence.

Last time I did so, the same former mods that protected you and gave you special treatment hit me with a bullshit three week ban.

But you knew that already since you were likely in on it....Since one or two of them are still here, I'll take that as an attempt to bait on your part.
 
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Cherico

Well-known member
Yeah sure...lets just lump all those cultural and religious and ceremonial rolls together to fit a narrative that caters to one of the most violently unstable and pedophilia proned elements of an incredibly unstable bloque of ultra minorities...

That's totally an honest and legitimate and not racist thing to do.



Fuck preferred pronouns

going to be honest living in cali is freaking hard theres like over 20 god damned pronouns and they just keep growing and it seems like their all demanded by the same 500 or so people.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Ah yes YouTube atheism just what we needed. It’s one thing to ask for and debate where it says in a religious book something is restricted or banned. It’s another thing entirely to be that intentional offensive.
It's not 'Youtube' atheism, it's taking a look at biblical events from a non-Biblical view point, correlating Biblical events with other historical records, the geologic record, and with the evidence that exists beyond Christian scripture.

It may offend you to have your holy book disected critically, but that also shows the weakness in dogmatic religious thinking, and why it cannot be allowed to dictate laws to a secular society.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
going to be honest living in cali is freaking hard theres like over 20 god damned pronouns and they just keep growing and it seems like their all demanded by the same 500 or so people.

The same sheltered, well off, protected mini elites who earn six figures and get in trouble for being caught grooming kids periodically.

California is a feudal society run by monsters.
 

Wargamer08

Well-known member
It's not 'Youtube' atheism, it's taking a look at biblical events from a non-Biblical view point, correlating Biblical events with other historical records, the geologic record, and with the evidence that exists beyond Christian scripture.

It may offend you to have your holy book disected critically, but that also shows the weakness in dogmatic religious thinking, and why it cannot be allowed to dictate laws to a secular society.
My dude, I'm not religious. I haven't stepped foot in a church in over a decade, two if you discount Christmas and funerals. I can however see youTube Atheism from a long way off. It's that same condescending, reductionist, massive over simplification masquerading as insight. Your position is that of outrage that people don't just give up their silly sky god and adopt your brand of hip secular religion.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
My dude, I'm not religious. I haven't stepped foot in a church in over a decade, two if you discount Christmas and funerals. I can however see youTube Atheism from a long way off. It's that same condescending, reductionist, massive over simplification masquerading as insight. Your position is that of outrage that people don't just give up their silly sky god and adopt your brand of hip secular religion.
I'm spiritual, but not religious, and am showing why any religion cannot be the basis for a secular nation.

Everything I talked about is something with scientific evidence to back it up.

Your reaction to me even mentioning those possibilities/looking at Biblical events from a non-religious perspective shows why religion cannot be allowed to be the arbiter of secular law in a secular nation.

Because faith and dogma have a hard time dealing with changing times and facts that don't fit their historical narrative.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
That is a lie.

They dont get in trouble for that anymore.

I was gonna object but then I remembered Biden HHS pick wants to mandate sex change operations for 9 year olds and strap ons for toddlers and wants to bureaucrats to be able to use wellness checks to imprison anyone who objects in mental hospitals.

Soooooo...Yeah, we are literally looking at state mandated grooming and genital mutilation and the mass drugging of children.
 

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