LGBT and the US Conservative Movement

[Bear Ribs]

I'm just putting a stop to this right now, because I am not interested in delving any further into a religious argument; and I'm fairly certain such would be drastically off topic for the thread. Suffice to say, the idea that there's some sort of unified "religious right" is a myth.

AS you wish. It would probably reduce the chance for such a delve in the future if you don't start with slandering a minority group via "They're misinterpreting scripture" and accusing said groups of hypocrisy when you're using false information.

As far as unified religious right, there's disagreement to be sure but one can find a fairly unified framework that a supermajority of Christians agree with. Generally just about all of them are against Adultery, Murder, Stealing, Bowing Down to Statues of Baal, etc. Once you get into fine details you'll find disagreement of course, virtually every Christian believes in baptism but there will be disagreement over whether baptism requires full-body immersion, f'rex.

 

[Terthna]

I guess the last two thousand years of societies being built around churches, with state churches, many of which persist to this day just didn’t exist. I mean for fucks sake, secularism has the problem you ascribe to Christianity 10 freaking fold, because at least with Christianity you tie it to an existing moral framework, an existing set of texts and beliefs that cannot be changed very easily that have a stronger reinforcement than “I like this and I don’t like that.” With secularism and democracy you can get absolutely anything and everything if you just get enough people to want something or like something, and there’s vastly less to even bind anyone within society together.

Your problem, is that you think everyone having their own system of beliefs is a problem; meanwhile I accept it as an unchangeable fact inherent to human existence. Even if you try to force your set of texts and beliefs onto people who reject them, all that will result from that folly is death and destruction.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Admittedly, I got a bit sidetracked into criticizing Jehovah's Witnesses; but if you're going to pull the whole "only Christians can truly understand Christianity" malarkey, I'd like to first point out that I went to church and Sunday School as a kid, and I've actually read your holy book (though not in many years). Which, honestly? Is more than I can say of most "orthodox believers".

Even the devil and protestants can quote scripture for their own ends. So what?

What is the point of pointing out disagreements between sects if not to argue that the universal agreement until the most recent literally just now, on matters of the morals surrounding the sacrament of marriage and the ban on sodomy, repeated by Our Lord and his Apostles, can just be set aside, just because 'some guy can build a sophistic argument based on a private interpretation of the scriptures that Jesus was gay, or trans, or gay trans, relying on the invalidation of the regulations of temple purity required to make sacrifices in offering for sin, which have been replaced by Christ's own sacrifice?'

 

[FriedCFour]

Your problem, is that you think everyone having their own system of beliefs is a problem; meanwhile I accept it as an unchangeable fact inherent to human existence. Even if you try to force your set of texts and beliefs onto people who reject them, all that will result from that folly is death and destruction.

I think it’s a problem when you try and force people with no commonality and no binding ideas really to try and live with one another and have a functional society. It’s fine if those radically different ideas and goals exist in a separate nation, not when it’s most of your neighbors. Both of these can be true lol, and nice job glossing over the fact you claimed you can’t have a Christian faith that dominates society when that’s most of fucking western history lol.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

So you'd be happier with a theocracy run by Jehovah's Witnesses then?

Better than the current theocracy of de facto Satanists and de jure materialists.

 

[Terthna]

AS you wish. It would probably reduce the chance for such a delve in the future if you don't start with slandering a minority group via "They're misinterpreting scripture" and accusing said groups of hypocrisy when you're using false information.

I asked you to drop it, and you take it as an opportunity to try and get the last word in; attacking my character in the process. I think we're done in general with each other now.

 

[Bacle]

Your problem, is that you think everyone having their own system of beliefs is a problem; meanwhile I accept it as an unchangeable fact inherent to human existence. Even if you try to force your set of texts and beliefs onto people who reject them, all that will result from that folly is death and destruction.

There's a reason I used to refer to the American Right as the American Taliban, before Trump came along, and Fried is like a walking, talking advert for for why those reasons are not just 'liberal lies'.

His type won't stop with same-sex marriage, and they won't stop at US borders either. If the paleo-cons get power, prepare for literal American Crusades against heretics and non-believers, once they are done 'purifying' things at home.

 

[Terthna]

There's a reason I used to refer to the American Right as the American Taliban, before Trump came along, and Fried is like a walking, talking advert for for why those reasons are not just 'liberal lies'.

His type won't stop with same-sex marriage, and they won't stop at US borders either. If the paleo-cons get power, prepare for literal American Crusades against heretics and non-believers, once they are done 'purifying' things at home.

Honestly, this thread is just reminding me of why I despise organized religion in general. Every argument, no matter how small, is like pulling teeth, and you're always the bad guy. It's like modern politics in many ways.

 

[FriedCFour]

There's a reason I used to refer to the American Right as the American Taliban, before Trump came along, and Fried is like a walking, talking advert for for why those reasons are not just 'liberal lies'.

His type won't stop with same-sex marriage, and they won't stop at US borders either. If the paleo-cons get power, prepare for literal American Crusades against heretics and non-believers, once they are done 'purifying' things at home.

You came to the fucking right because of a guy who pushed for reforms and politics that stem from Paleoconservatism dummy. Pretty much everything Trump has is in the paleocon agenda and has been since at least the 80s. You like and support like 90% of the reforms to the right that they have a legacy of fighting for that goes back 70 years. And then you jump on board, you interact a little bit with me, and you decide they are like the anti-Christ even though they paved the way for the politics that you support and you think they need to be exiled and removed over a slight difference. You’re so pathetic that I live so rent free in your head you feel the need to talk shit about me over, and over, and over again even as you refuse to engage while I have tried civility with you. But you spaz out like a leftist over a difference of belief and take it as a personal attack on you. You’re doing this pathetic, womanly game of talking bad about a person knowing that they’ll over hear you while you refuse to even talk to them because you are such a coward that you just want them to go away. And it’s not even in person. You can’t handle my presence on a dumb Internet forum.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

You came to the fucking right because of a guy who pushed for reforms and politics that stem from Paleoconservatism retard. Pretty much everything Trump has is in the paleocon agenda and has been since at least the 80s.

Not that I remember seeing the orangeman ever giving credit where it was due to Buchannan for keeping the torch of pre William F Buckley reactionary America First conservatism alive.

 

[FriedCFour]

Not that I remember seeing the orangeman ever giving credit where it was due to Buchannan for keeping the torch of pre William F Buckley reactionary America First conservatism alive.

There wasn’t a ton of interaction from what I can see beyond some retweet’s, though Pat Buchanan gave his full endorsement very early and seems to have been an ardent supporter the whole way.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

There wasn’t a ton of interaction from what I can see beyond some retweet’s, though Pat Buchanan gave his full endorsement very early and seems to have been an ardent supporter the whole way.

Right, but it was all one way and that loyalty was never rewarded. After his surrender and cowardly turning on his own supporters in the groyper putsch, I have no time for the man, only the message.

While as a Monarchist I generally approve the instinct to bring politics back to loyalty to persons, I ken that any Lord worthy of Followers must give loyalty as well as receive.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Even then I don’t really want a state church per se, just a return to it having a dominant social role and not Hollywood and corporate materialism and celebrities and all this other trash that creates all the things you dislike and directly erodes the liberty you want.

You ask for Galadriel, but you'll get Sauron.

 

[FriedCFour]

You ask for Galadriel, but you get Sauron, every time.

Not really not. I think Feudalism wasn’t very bad to be quite honest, neither were most nations with state churches. It’s ran through most of western civilization and most of it was quite good, and not at all in spite of it. And doesn’t that just as much apply to yourself? Think that you can dissolve the things that bind us and we will just emerge better from it?

 

[strunkenwhite]

Not really not. I think Feudalism wasn’t very bad to be quite honest, neither were most nations with state churches. It’s ran through most of western civilization and most of it was quite good, and not at all in spite of it. And doesn’t that just as much apply to yourself? Think that you can dissolve the things that bind us and we will just emerge better from it?

Well, if I thought religion was the only valid source of morality I'm sure I would be more sympathetic to that view than I am. Also, I think there's plenty that still binds the citizens of this country together without religion. (Not that most of us are actually without religion.)

But hell, you think the industrial revolution was a mistake, don't you?

 

[FriedCFour]

Well, if I thought religion was the only valid source of morality I'm sure I would be more sympathetic to that view than I am. Also, I think there's plenty that still binds the citizens of this country together without religion. (Not that most of us are actually without religion.)

I think we have really nothing that binds us nationally except for fear of the federal government. We don’t share any kind of values with one another anymore and we are playing a zero sum game against each other.

But hell, you think the industrial revolution was a mistake, don't you?

Industrial revolution and its consequences are a disaster for the human race. But meme aside, I’m not certain how much lays on the industrial revolution itself, and there are certainly things that aren’t bad that have come out of it.

 

[LindyAF]

There's a reason I used to refer to the American Right as the American Taliban, before Trump came along, and Fried is like a walking, talking advert for for why those reasons are not just 'liberal lies'.

His type won't stop with same-sex marriage, and they won't stop at US borders either. If the paleo-cons get power, prepare for literal American Crusades against heretics and non-believers, once they are done 'purifying' things at home.

Damn... that's pretty based.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

.

As far as unified religious right, there's disagreement to be sure but one can find a fairly unified framework that a supermajority of Christians agree with. Generally just about all of them are against Adultery, Murder, Stealing, Bowing Down to Statues of Baal, etc. Once you get into fine details you'll find disagreement of course, virtually every Christian believes in baptism but there will be disagreement over whether baptism requires full-body immersion, f'rex.

The biggest obstacle to a unified religious right faction at present. Seems to be that the biggest surge in new recruits are either former neopagans turned militantly catholic or Eastern Orthodox or are hardcore catholic immigrants who are also either Mediterranean supremacists or Celtic supremacist

IE they view WASPS as subhuman for having nordic/Germanic blood and as apostates for being protestants


@Guy of Z can go into better detail since he has engaged almost all of their so called thought leaders in debates and is hated by Goypers more than I am.

But yeah that's honestly what's keeping them from unifying and shifting the social norms on their own. The fact that it's a brawl between evangelicals and these other two groups who also fight amongst themselves.

These guys by and large also want to outright criminalize being LGBT which is very different from "we just don't want you marrying or adopting"

Damn... that's pretty based.

Bacle and Comet King represent yesterday's right wing. The self hating clowns who lose gracefully and bend over for the left and attack their own base.

@Guy of Z @sir_fire and some of you new guys represent its future. @FriedCFour What it may become.

And I'm the shifty spic in the shadows offering you that crew of ringers you may need just in case shit gets heavy


Don't worry Bscle, the religious right won't take over.

Guys like me will.

And we promise to leave the gays alone.

We will be too busy punishing all the centrists and appeasers, rinoz and neocon filth to care about gays.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Seems to be that the biggest surge in new recruits are either former neopagans turned militantly catholic or Eastern Orthodox or are hardcore catholic immigrants who are also either Mediterranean supremacists or Celtic supremacist

IE they view WASPS as subhuman for having nordic/Germanic blood and as apostates for being protestants

To be fair, the Greeks and the Latins spend at least just as much time, if not more by far, sniping at each other for 1054, the IV Crusade, Slaughter of the Latins, Council of Florence, 'created grace', hesychasm and the essence-energy distinction and other inside baseball things as they do dumping on the Anglo-Norman heretics.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

To be fair, the Greeks and the Latins spend at least just as much time, if not more by far, sniping at each other for 1054, the IV Crusade, Slaughter of the Latins, Council of Florence, 'created grace', hesychasm and the essence-energy distinction and other inside baseball things as they do dumping on the Anglo-Norman heretics.

Of course. I wasn't saying those two groups were a unified group or that they only fight amongst themselves because their newest converts are kind of a larp.

Just that, the particular contingent now has some infighting issues that are semi born from cluelessness