LGBT and the US Conservative Movement

[King Arts]

Let's not get started down the transhumanist rabbit hole please, at least, not in this thread. Even hypothetical substantial and essential sex change opens up enough philosophical and moral cans of worms that it is more than enough. I for one pray we are never forced to return to the well of Patristic Theology or Thomism to work out a moral theology for AD&D's girdle of femininity.

I would argue that even attempting such a change constituted a rebellion against the created order itself, but I am a noted reactionary grognard with primitivist instincts. You'd want an opinion from someone who doesn't wish that the stories of the Papal States' banning of steam engines and street lamps were actually true rather than secularist black propaganda.

Bro, so my question is why are you playing around on computers? I mean if steam power is bad, wouldn't electrical power be also bad? I mean just because we think that the tradition of our ancestors and the old ways are best in terms of society and morality, and religion. It does not neccesarily mean that ALL new tech is bad. Though I will admit that I do prefer small farm raised food, instead of factory farming. It appeals to me to eat the same healthy food that my ancestors had. They went to the town market and bought it directly from the peasants in the countryside, it's the way humanity has always had it's domesticated food.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Bro, so my question is why are you playing around on computers? I mean if steam power is bad, wouldn't electrical power be also bad? I mean just because we think that the tradition of our ancestors and the old ways are best in terms of society and morality, and religion. It does not neccesarily mean that ALL new tech is bad. Though I will admit that I do prefer small farm raised food, instead of factory farming. It appeals to me to eat the same healthy food that my ancestors had. They went to the town market and bought it directly from the peasants in the countryside, it's the way humanity has always had it's domesticated food.

Because consistency is hard. Because living without hypocrisy is harder. Because the genie is well and truly out of the bottle and I may as well enjoy the decline. Because I make my living from the bloody things. Because instincts only take you so far. Because I know tobacco and alcohol are also bad for me and that doesn't stop me either. Take your pick.

 

[ShieldWife]

It’s very hard to detach from modern society, it takes a lot of sacrifices. I would like to do it more myself.

 

[S'task]

It was a Republican who gave China permanent MFN status.

Permanent MFN status was granted to China in 2000, signed into law by Bill Clinton. While there were Republicans who voted on it as well as sponsored and co-sponsered it, it was largely a bipartisan bill and in the time period there was sever pushback from the Conservative Republicans and Religious Right, but they were ignored in favor of the Neocons and Chamber of Commerce, who were ascendant at the time due to the those wings failure to impeach Clinton.

Now, the Republicans did have a majority in both houses at the time, and should have killed it, I'll grant, but there as not "a" Republican who granted it, a Democrat did.

 

[Captain X]

To maybe shift away from the specific issues of trans people and get discussion more focused around the ideas and legal reaction, would it be reasonable to consider SRS, crossdressing and other things trans people do to pass as their chosen gender as being broadly similar to piecing, tattoos, and other body modification?

I'd honestly compare them more to the people who want to have limbs cut off and the like. I forget the name for it, but I remember watching something on that. They literally want to have arms or legs cut off, or to be blinded, or something else disabling in order to feel "right" in their minds. Some of them will even go as far as to hurt themselves in order to force amputations, or just do it themselves.

 

[Prince Ire]

Permanent MFN status was granted to China in 2000, signed into law by Bill Clinton. While there were Republicans who voted on it as well as sponsored and co-sponsered it, it was largely a bipartisan bill and in the time period there was sever pushback from the Conservative Republicans and Religious Right, but they were ignored in favor of the Neocons and Chamber of Commerce, who were ascendant at the time due to the those wings failure to impeach Clinton.

Now, the Republicans did have a majority in both houses at the time, and should have killed it, I'll grant, but there as not "a" Republican who granted it, a Democrat did.

It should also be remembered that in the early 2000s, basically everyone of importance in the US was still operating under the wealth=democracy school of thought, which had looked at a few historical examples of democratization and came to the conclusion that as a state becomes wealthy, its citizens inevitably demanded democracy. Now, the history of China over the last twenty years has pretty obviously shown this idea to be false, but back then it was widely accepted.

 

[ParadiseLost]

Permanent MFN status was granted to China in 2000, signed into law by Bill Clinton. While there were Republicans who voted on it as well as sponsored and co-sponsered it, it was largely a bipartisan bill and in the time period there was sever pushback from the Conservative Republicans and Religious Right, but they were ignored in favor of the Neocons and Chamber of Commerce, who were ascendant at the time due to the those wings failure to impeach Clinton.

Now, the Republicans did have a majority in both houses at the time, and should have killed it, I'll grant, but there as not "a" Republican who granted it, a Democrat did.

President Grants Permanent Trade Status to China

Today the President signed a proclamation granting permanent normal trading relations status to China. This is the final step in normalizing U.S.-China trade relations and welcoming China into a global, rules-based trading system.

georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov

It was signed by George W Bush in 2001.

At the very least, he should get equal blame with Clinton.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

President Grants Permanent Trade Status to China

Today the President signed a proclamation granting permanent normal trading relations status to China. This is the final step in normalizing U.S.-China trade relations and welcoming China into a global, rules-based trading system.

georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov

It was signed by George W Bush in 2001.

At the very least, he should get equal blame with Clinton.

Both parties do what the banksters tell them to do, it's that simple.

 

[King Arts]

Both parties do what the banksters tell them to do, it's that simple.

To a degree yes everyone has to be mindful of money but it seems like the guys in control of Twitter and Facebook don’t censor Chinese leaders like they do Trymp and republicans. Makes it seem like the CPC knows how to control billionaires and threaten to take away their fortunes if they try and harm the nation.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Case and point: Jedi is an officially recognized religion in Australia, and there in nothing in US law that says a 'religion' has to come from one of the common holy books of the world.

Theoretically (assuming you do not run into copyright issues) you could make a 'religion' out of any piece of writing or cinema, as long as the devotees are serious enough in their desire.

So if Christians want to strip away the 'don't favor any religion' part of the Constitution, they best be prepared for the can of worms that will be unleashed when other religions want in on the action.

Cult of the God Emperor of Mankind, Sith churchs, worship of the number 42, Haruhism, and/or the Ferengi Rules of Accusition (among many, many examples) are all fair game for making laws if 'religious' reasoning and religious groups start to be able to self-justify enforcing their beliefs as laws in the US.

To a degree yes everyone has to be mindful of money but it seems like the guys in control of Twitter and Facebook don’t censor Chinese leaders like they do Trymp and republicans. Makes it seem like the CPC knows how to control billionaires and threaten to take away their fortunes if they try and harm the nation.

What I don't get is that what is so special about Chinese money? Last I checked it did not have that much buying power.

 

[Doomsought]

What I don't get is that what is so special about Chinese money? Last I checked it did not have that much buying power.

It is backed up by manufacturing capacity, something that has been leaking out of the US for decades.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

To a degree yes everyone has to be mindful of money but it seems like the guys in control of Twitter and Facebook don’t censor Chinese leaders like they do Trymp and republicans. Makes it seem like the CPC knows how to control billionaires and threaten to take away their fortunes if they try and harm the nation.

'Our' Elites have visions of dollar signs in their eyes, which makes them easy for Chinese Elites to play, as Chinese Elites are actually Chinese in a way that 'American' Elites stopped being a long time ago. China is walking a path between not quite agreeing to next host the money-parasites after they abandon New York, like they once abandoned London, but not quite giving a hard no either. This gives them room to maneuver between the Scylla of fully committing to the Mercury of the Money Power and the Charybdis Salt of Russia's Force Power.

 

[ShieldWife]

Both parties do what the banksters tell them to do, it's that simple.

To a degree yes everyone has to be mindful of money but it seems like the guys in control of Twitter and Facebook don’t censor Chinese leaders like they do Trymp and republicans. Makes it seem like the CPC knows how to control billionaires and threaten to take away their fortunes if they try and harm the nation.

Both parties do obey the banksters. China has known this for a while and have been using some of the wealth they’ve gained by making all of our junk to buy into the system that controls America.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Both parties do obey the banksters. China has known this for a while and have been using some of the wealth they’ve gained by making all of our junk to buy into the system that controls America.

This where things get a little tricky, because the Chinese are not themselves Modernist Monetarists, therefore they don't identify 'money' itself as 'wealth', reserving that designation for productive capital, tools that make more tools, fields growing rice, roads, buildings, that sort of thing. Therefore they are happy to gain tokens of wealth exchange with which to use to purchase fuel oil, hard currency, machine tools, and yes, bonds and equities in foreign markets along with the real-politic influence those securities convey. And they get all this by manufacturing real things and employing their masses of low skilled workers who then build expertise.

Literally Win-Win.

 

[Abhorsen]

This is a reminder that this is a thread is about LGBTs and the US Conservative movement, not about banking or China.

 

[King Arts]

What I don't get is that what is so special about Chinese money? Last I checked it did not have that much buying power.

They are the largest nation on earth by population they have a stupidly high amount of people like almost half of all human population is Chinese that’s a lot of buying power. Anyway enough with China crap.

The problem with lgbt progressive ideology is that it really is feels before reels. It’s not just men in dresses who think they are women it’s people making up new genders to be special.

 

[Captain X]

One of the reasons I've been butting heads with them for a very long time is that I have always advocated against feeling one needs to stick to gender stereotypes and norms, but these people love their stereotypes so much that they will invent entirely new "genders" to fit whatever random stereotype they want to define themselves by. Crazy.

 

[FriedCFour]

One of the reasons I've been butting heads with them for a very long time is that I have always advocated against feeling one needs to stick to gender stereotypes and norms, but these people love their stereotypes so much that they will invent entirely new "genders" to fit whatever random stereotype they want to define themselves by. Crazy.

Shouldn’t society have ideals to strive for though? Value some roles over others, value some decisions over others, encourage some behavior and discourage others? And if not, how is it possible to have a vacuum of nothing?

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Shouldn’t society have ideals to strive for though? Value some roles over others, value some decisions over others, encourage some behavior and discourage others? And if not, how is it possible to have a vacuum of nothing?

By definition a 'society' is a community of persons ordered to achieve some common end. By that alone a society without preference is impossible. But that's the entire thrust of 'liberalism' as such, the acidic dissolution of 'society' as such into a mass of 'individuals'.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Relevant to the topic in so far as why the right should be accommodating to the L the B and G but militantly oppose the T everywhere at every facet and level of society.