Is China really a threat to the United States Hegemony?

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
Fair enough but if they are "tired". Thrn maybe they shouldn't have wasted thier strength. America is awesome Europe is a joke sucks for them.
No, if you want to blame someone for screwing Europe over, better blame the British, well the long stretches of leadership worshiping the 'Europe must stay divided at all costs' geopolitical goal for so long... the British entry to WW1 is almost entirely due to Germany basically kicking out Britain in the 'powerful nations club' in terms of economic and scientific capability. A similar situation was happening in the US, oddly enough, and the only reason why the US didn't outstrip Britain in military capability is because of Congress.
 

Lanmandragon

Well-known member
No, if you want to blame someone for screwing Europe over, better blame the British, well the long stretches of leadership worshiping the 'Europe must stay divided at all costs' geopolitical goal for so long... the British entry to WW1 is almost entirely due to Germany basically kicking out Britain in the 'powerful nations club' in terms of economic and scientific capability. A similar situation was happening in the US, oddly enough, and the only reason why the US didn't outstrip Britain in military capability is because of Congress.
So the Euros then? The Brits are Euros no matter how much thru scream no. Hell dude if we weren't they wouldn't be trying to copy us. Unless you wanna pretend the "EU" isn't an attempt to copy us.
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
So the Euros then? The Brits are Euros no matter how much thru scream no. Hell dude if we weren't they wouldn't be trying to copy us. Unless you wanna pretend the "EU" isn't an attempt to copy us.
At this point, we'll have to cut the Brits from the Euro tag. The Brits had the chance when the 20th rolled around but, well, as they say, people don't like being obsolete.
 

Airedale260

Well-known member
The Europe talk is derailing the conversation, I think. While there's plenty of stuff to complain with Europe, the topic is China and the threat it poses to the United States.

Middle Kingdom? Did they expect their European Conquerors to rule from China instead of their homelands?

Isn’t the concept of the “Middle Kingdom” also something in which it’s not exactly defined by geographt alone

Whatever it may have been originally, today's meaning is that China is above everyone else, because they believe that's how it always was and how it always should be, etc. I've heard it referred to as the "Middle Kingdom Complex" and it seems apt, given China's attitude towards the rest of the world, including the U.S.

Except that they really aren't and that if they push too hard, they will get blowback. The disaster they've inflicted on the rest of the world isn't cause for outright war, but it's still got a lot of countries up in arms, and when the global economy takes the hit, they're going to end up getting blasted far worse than the U.S. (which still has a large internal market and several more attractive options).
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
Is it a threat? Id say yes. China is certainly large enough and has enough resources to be a threat.

However, so is Iran: its just that Irans path to do so is very small, and the scale they could break the hegemony is relatively narrow (our ability to operate freely in the middle east gets limited).

So, I would say "yes", but its partly dependent on how much power you think they have to weild before you think our hedimony has been curtailed, and how probable the event has to be.

Theres a world of difference between, say, if we want to topple Iran or Venezuela and China saying no is a de facto veto, vs the US being subservient to China run institutions (think 90s russia) and a china occupied China run puppet state.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
No, if you want to blame someone for screwing Europe over, better blame the British, well the long stretches of leadership worshiping the 'Europe must stay divided at all costs' geopolitical goal for so long... the British entry to WW1 is almost entirely due to Germany basically kicking out Britain in the 'powerful nations club' in terms of economic and scientific capability. A similar situation was happening in the US, oddly enough, and the only reason why the US didn't outstrip Britain in military capability is because of Congress.

Britain was still very much the financial centre of the world and the German defeat in WW1 shows how limited "economic and scientific capability" alone is an arbiter of victory or defeat in war. Britain was still the stronger power, capable of using its money to, following the exact same strategy as it had since the 17th century, fund the weaker side of a continental war, reinforcing it with a small army, and providing the fiscal support to tilt the balance so that they won.
 

Lanmandragon

Well-known member
Britain was still very much the financial centre of the world and the German defeat in WW1 shows how limited "economic and scientific capability" alone is an arbiter of victory or defeat in war. Britain was still the stronger power, capable of using its money to, following the exact same strategy as it had since the 17th century, fund the weaker side of a continental war, reinforcing it with a small army, and providing the fiscal support to tilt the balance so that they won.
Didn't we start bankrolling the war in 15 because the Brits we're broke?
 

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member

With control freak tendencies like this they'll never succeed in their aspirations.

I think China is ultimately doomed to implode due to the inability of the central government to take a "lighter touch" approach. This is a problem that has dogged the Chinese for millennia and will continue to do so. However, I have a feeling that when this "dynasty" falls, China will be diminished significantly as many of the country's long suffering minorities might take their chance and break away. I mean, what possible reason would the Tibetans or Uighurs have to stay tied to an oppressive government that is collapsing?
 

Cherico

Well-known member
I think China is ultimately doomed to implode due to the inability of the central government to take a "lighter touch" approach. This is a problem that has dogged the Chinese for millennia and will continue to do so. However, I have a feeling that when this "dynasty" falls, China will be diminished significantly as many of the country's long suffering minorities might take their chance and break away. I mean, what possible reason would the Tibetans or Uighurs have to stay tied to an oppressive government that is collapsing?

I think their doomed because their the single most over leveraged country in human history in both real and relative terms. Seriously china has been handing out intrest free loans to any company willing to employ people for more then 30 years now. The amount of bad debt they have floating around their system is worse then subprime.

Its only a matter of time until that bubble blows and when it does that entire country is fucked great depression sytle at minimum.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag

With control freak tendencies like this they'll never succeed in their aspirations.

Military force, Hostaged Populations and brainwashed or bribed traitors amongst the population

The CCP won’t go gently, but so can be said for those minorities
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
According to this article
It says COVID is knocking on the door of the US Hegemony and that China may replace the position as the Hegemon of the world.

How true is this?
Still changposting sport? Diddnt we do this already?

China has done nothing but shit itself in every armed conflict it's been in for five hundred years.

When US forces have engaged chinese forces (and they have), they've routinely bagged ten, twenty, even as high as forty to one casualties.

China is fundamentally unable to survive a single week of logistics bombing, which would leave the entire country eating each other, exactly like what happens every time someone hits china, including china. A single day of successful conventional bombing against china would do irreparable harm to their economy.

China's military is full of clowns who say shit like "america will give up if they take casualties" and "body armor makes soldiers weaker", and their navy is pitiful next to ours.

The Chinese economy has three feet in the grave and one foot on a banana peel, and has been teetering on that precipice for some time now. Their housing market is ready for a crash to make ours look like a hiccup, they've been sacrificing lucrative international business opportunities that they cant make up for on their own in the name of national pride, chasing out foreign born businessmen despite having an economy that is virtually built on foreign business.



Oh, and anyone who believes China's official numbers of Kung Flu deaths are even in the correct order of magnitude really needs to mail me 100 dollars, after all, you'll believe just about anything.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Still changposting sport? Diddnt we do this already?

China has done nothing but shit itself in every armed conflict it's been in for five hundred years.

When US forces have engaged chinese forces (and they have), they've routinely bagged ten, twenty, even as high as forty to one casualties.

China is fundamentally unable to survive a single week of logistics bombing, which would leave the entire country eating each other, exactly like what happens every time someone hits china, including china. A single day of successful conventional bombing against china would do irreparable harm to their economy.

China's military is full of clowns who say shit like "america will give up if they take casualties" and "body armor makes soldiers weaker", and their navy is pitiful next to ours.

The Chinese economy has three feet in the grave and one foot on a banana peel, and has been teetering on that precipice for some time now. Their housing market is ready for a crash to make ours look like a hiccup, they've been sacrificing lucrative international business opportunities that they cant make up for on their own in the name of national pride, chasing out foreign born businessmen despite having an economy that is virtually built on foreign business.



Oh, and anyone who believes China's official numbers of Kung Flu deaths are even in the correct order of magnitude really needs to mail me 100 dollars, after all, you'll believe just about anything.
Oh, Thier military is actually not the "Body armor makes soldiers weaker" That is North Korea. We have seen training especially with their Amphibious forces and they have armor on.
They also have the SAM capabilities to take out any and all of our aircraft. Are their crews good enough with the radars? *shrugs* but they do. You can See what they have (somewhat, who owns what can be classified so I use the WEG.) They have some of the best ADA from Russia. Which are multiuse going by WEG.
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
I think China is ultimately doomed to implode due to the inability of the central government to take a "lighter touch" approach. This is a problem that has dogged the Chinese for millennia and will continue to do so. However, I have a feeling that when this "dynasty" falls, China will be diminished significantly as many of the country's long suffering minorities might take their chance and break away. I mean, what possible reason would the Tibetans or Uighurs have to stay tied to an oppressive government that is collapsing?

I mean, you can't have the Uighurs leave if there are no Uighurs. This kind of heavy handed action has been wildly successful in the past. France for example has to a large degree kept itself together despite many revolutions because they were very successful at eliminating local cultures and forcing them into a unified French culture. The US also applied some pretty heavy handed tactics in the 1900s-1940s to force all the various European ethnicity integrated into American culture. Especially the Germans. And of course, well, the Indians.

Just because something isn't nice doesn't mean its not effective.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
Is it a threat? Id say yes. China is certainly large enough and has enough resources to be a threat.

However, so is Iran: its just that Irans path to do so is very small, and the scale they could break the hegemony is relatively narrow (our ability to operate freely in the middle east gets limited).

So, I would say "yes", but its partly dependent on how much power you think they have to weild before you think our hedimony has been curtailed, and how probable the event has to be.

Theres a world of difference between, say, if we want to topple Iran or Venezuela and China saying no is a de facto veto, vs the US being subservient to China run institutions (think 90s russia) and a china occupied China run puppet state.
China has one big problem that is gonna bite them in the ass. They have a Food Production Problem. Due to the Commie tendency to not value the environment. They have poisoned a lot of their farmland. It was one of the reasons they pushed into Africa. They needed Africa as a farming colony for China proper. But after treating the various African peoples like slaves and blaming them for the Wuhan Flu. They have been effectively kicked out of those countries. Now they are trying to use Central and South America as a back up but with not as much success. They are in a time crunch that we will see pretty soon. You can't be a Hegemon if you are starving.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
China has one big problem that is gonna bite them in the ass. They have a Food Production Problem. Due to the Commie tendency to not value the environment. They have poisoned a lot of their farmland. It was one of the reasons they pushed into Africa. They needed Africa as a farming colony for China proper. But after treating the various African peoples like slaves and blaming them for the Wuhan Flu. They have been effectively kicked out of those countries. Now they are trying to use Central and South America as a back up but with not as much success. They are in a time crunch that we will see pretty soon. You can't be a Hegemon if you are starving.

There is one giant problem with using Central and south america as a back up.

As much as Latin american countries bitch about us and complain about us, they know for an absolute fact that we will interviene on their side if a power outside the americas decides to fuck with them. This has been true for well over a century now and just because we have left most of the rest of the world it doesnt mean we wont blow our shit if some one fucks around our back yard.
 

Free-Stater 101

Freedom Means Freedom!!!
Nuke Mod
Moderator
Staff Member
The threat of China doesn't come from their military, at least in regards to U.S. their growing soft power amongst the third world is what challenges us. If they keep growing their economic/industrial leverages against ours which is declining and making friend's abroad while using that influence to push these countries away we will be in for a big, long term problem.
 
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JagerIV

Well-known member
There is one giant problem with using Central and south america as a back up.

As much as Latin american countries bitch about us and complain about us, they know for an absolute fact that we will interviene on their side if a power outside the americas decides to fuck with them. This has been true for well over a century now and just because we have left most of the rest of the world it doesnt mean we wont blow our shit if some one fucks around our back yard.

I mean, if the Chinese plans go to, well, plan the Latin American Countries will be demanding they intervene against the US. It seems a bit strange to see Latin America as a land of US friendly nations. When in the Cold war it represented trival commitments of resources for the USSR to stir shit up, and cost us fairly significant resources to keep things steady.

Plus, well, Cuba exists. The ability to fuck around in our backyard and get away with it is fairly well established. Are we going to invade Venesuala if they let the chinese set up a base? What if the chinese "merely" buy up a whole lot of property and politicians?
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Their military had veterans from their civil war and have conducted some engagements where their best was with India and the Korean war but they haven't done much to test out their military to my knowledge and India while they're mired in problems just like China is demonstrating better performance than the last time they fought each other.
 
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