Is China really a threat to the United States Hegemony?

[Tiamat]

I would argue there is validity to both LordSovereign and Lanmandragon's arguments. The US has capabilities that far outstrip the Chinese, but the Chinese have also been playing catchup, to an extent for the past few decades and have been modernizing. Are they at the same level peer for peer as the US? No, although they, at least on paper have a numerical advantage. Then again, it does remind me a little of the quantity vs. quality argument between the Americans and Soviets back in the bad old days. China's navy is modernizing, but they're nowhere yet near the numbers and capability of the USN though. The Chinese had six carriers planned for deployment but now are scaling that back to at least four after budget shortfalls started biting them. I don't know how that effects the other branches of the Chinese military but their generals are often deeply embedded in corruption and kickbacks, plus don't forget, those with the guns make the rules, so I don't see too much of a curtailing of funds to the Chinese military as opposed to the civilian sector.

That said, any war between the US and China is going to suck. Both countries are nuclear capable, but hard to say if it would go that far. As it's been discussed before and elsewhere, there are other ways to turn up the heat on the Chinese without going to war, their biggest achilles heel....well, again there's several...an overleveraged economy, aging populace with too many males, a glaring weakness in their energy supply, not enough arable farmland to sustain their own populace, etc. etc.....none of these are conducive to an "emerging global power".

 

[Cherico]

Id argue that Chinas biggest enemy is itself and I don't think the united states is capable of usurping that role.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Id argue that Chinas biggest enemy is itself and I don't think the united states is capable of usurping that role.

That means jack shit and you know it. You grew up just like i did underestimating an enemy as weak is how you die it's really that simple. We need to be smart about this. Going in half-cocked and unprepared is how you die.

 

[Tiamat]

Gentlemen...let's keep it civil here.

 

[Cherico]

That means jack shit and you know it. You tree up juet lije i did estimating a for even a weak for. Is how you die it's really that simple we need to he smart about this. Going in half-cocked and unprepared is how you die.

Im saying I don't think we need to actually have a war with china in order to see the country reduced in power.

There are other tools in our box we can use, Tarrifs, international pressure, trade deals, media, that kind of thing. Im not trying to insult you just remind you that because of China's many issues we can acheive the same goal with out a shooting war.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Gentlemen...let's keep it civil here.

Bro that is civil cherico and i come from a harder place then you. If I was being "uncivil" I'd gave said "bitch ass motherfucker or something". Trust me dude understands what's going on.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Im saying I don't think we need to actually have a war with china in order to see the country reduced in power.

There are other tools in our box we can use, Tarrifs, international pressure, trade deals, media, that kind of thing. Im not trying to insult you just remind you that because of China's many issues we can acheive the same goal with out a shooting war.

Ahh ok I agree but I'm running off the assumption they start shit. Not that we do very different starting places is our issue.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Im saying I don't think we need to actually have a war with china in order to see the country reduced in power.

I don't think that is enough. China must be crushed for what it's done and brute force solves very many problems.

They want to challenge the hegemony of the United States? The challenge should be accepted, and the result should be a grim reminder why none should ever issue that challenge. Military might is the final arbiter of a nation's strength; everything else is humanity just kidding itself.

 

[Lanmandragon]

I don't think that is enough. China must be crushed for what it's done and brute force solves very many problems.

They want to challenge the hegemony of the United States? The challenge should be accepted, and the result should be a grim reminder why none should ever issue that challenge. Military might is the final arbiter of a nation's strength; everything else is humanity just kidding itself.

As the Brits say "Come have a go if you think your hard enough". We just gotta be warry fear is how fights ate won. It gives you courage, strength and the willingness to kill.

 

[Cherico]

Ahh ok I agree but I'm running off the assumption they start shit. Not that we do very different starting places is our issue.

I will concede that if China does start a conflict then you have a very good point, China for all of its problems Is a very important regional power, and can do a lot of damage on the way down.

 

[Zachowon]

I think it's partly to do with that the Chinese are starting to actually believe their own press...they've put such a substantial propaganda campaign over the years, intensifying within the last few years and especially now. Much like that saying "repeat the lie enough times and you will believe it", they are starting to actually believe "China Number 1", "China will rule the world", etc. etc....

I can think of another country, hell two, back in the late 1930's that deluded themselves with the same thinking...it didn't go well for either one IIRC. Hell, Japan now is probably looking at China and going "you might want to take a lesson or two from us guys..."

The United States, on its own, would swat China like a gnat. The American soldier is the roman legionary of today whilst the Chinese soldier is some poor conscript who does not want to be there. His equipment, training and leadership are also inferior. Chinese tanks are not the match of M1 Abrams; Chinese jets are not the match of F-22s or F-35s; and as for their navy, that is just a laughable comparison. They would have to use human wave tactics on, which honestly would likely overwhelm the Americans due to the sheer multitude of Chinese soldiers trying to surrender to them.

A part of me wonders whether military action is necessary. China, this tedious country with delusions of grandeur, should be put in its place. Besides, making an example of the People's Republic will remind the world who is in charge here. Washington D.C is the 21st century Rome, and any who break her peace must pay the price.

They are increasing the size of thier military as fast as they can so they can at least in thier eyes be a threat to the US in a military capacity.

Sure they can't actually win but if Houston or Chicago go up un nuclear fire that's not good. I'm not saying we shouldn't fight but we have to be aware if the enemy's capabilities. Because if I've learned one thing being a gansta. It's underestimating your enemy means you die damn near every time. Fear is a good thing as long as it's controlled fear.

That is one reason we may not go to war

 

[Lanmandragon]

I will concede that if China does start a conflict then you have a very good point, China for all of its problems Is a very important regional power, and can do a lot of damage on the way down.

Fair enough shits complex this is exactly like taking drug territory though. It's just happening at a higher level. Shits still just being a gansta though you know this just like I do bro.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

Id argue that Chinas biggest enemy is itself and I don't think the united states is capable of usurping that role.

To be fair barring Japan from 1894 to 1945 and the Mongol Empire China has always been it's own worst enemy

 

[Arch Dornan]

To be fair barring Japan from 1894 to 1945 and the Mongol Empire China has always been it's own worst enemy

If some Chinese got radicalised differently, would they reconsider one China citing ancient Chinese colonialism and start warring states 2 electric boogaloo?

 

[CarlManvers2019]

If some Chinese got radicalised differently, would they reconsider one China citing ancient Chinese colonialism and start warring states 2 electric boogaloo?

Ancient Chinese Colonialism? I dunno about you, but there’s less rights to those lands without say, the Chinese Royal Family from those times

Then again, I think Party Members can more-or-less be even more along the lines of feudal nobility than any capitalist leadership

 

[Arch Dornan]

Ancient Chinese Colonialism? I dunno about you, but there’s less rights to those lands without say, the Chinese Royal Family from those times

Then again, I think Party Members can more-or-less be even more along the lines of feudal nobility than any capitalist leadership

Stranger things have happened with opportunities to try it out.

 

[Arch Dornan]

In the event of a war India will join in. They're in the mood for saber rattling recently that injured soldiers on both sides.

 

[Aaron Fox]

The thing is that you have to look at things through China's historical perspective. Despite everything the CCP has done to crush the old ways, it is still a part of the Chinese identity. One of those 'old ways' is the Mandate of Heaven, and that caused far more problems than it solved in the historical sense.

The Mandate of Heaven can be summed up rather easily: a dynasty is only a dynasty at the heaven's behest, if you piss off heaven then the dynasty will fall. Given the historical record, this is a problem and the CCP knows it. As such, they are making it look like everything's fine and try to preempt as many problems as possible, especially the traditional 'dynasty has lost heaven's mandate' problems like pandemics.

Given that what the Europeans put China through has left the worst sort of scar imaginable (to put it into perspective, it would be like France completely demolished the Holy Roman Empire and ensured that no unifying force of the various German states comes along for about half a century at least, all the while killing anyone that 'didn't get with the program' as it were), a conflict is inevitable because they will never be subservient to another power because the last time was extremely horrifying. China has been working towards getting a freedom of action against the United States, although Russia has been an unwitting supporter in this case with it's current leadership's almost laser-focus on upending the 'everyone is forced to do world trade at effectively gunpoint' policy that the US has been enforcing for better part of a century now.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Given that what the Europeans put China through

What about China's neighbour who conquered them in the past?

Going to be honest what Europeans did to them was nothing compared to what the Manchus did before their oriental neighbour in the land of the rising sun came to prove them wrong.

 

[Aaron Fox]

What about China's neighbour who conquered them in the past?

Going to be honest what Europeans did to them was nothing compared to what the Manchus did before their oriental neighbour in the land of the rising sun came to prove them wrong.

They didn't do anything like what the Europeans had done. In the Manchus, Japanese, Jurchen, and Mongols would rather simply take over as ruler. The Europeans on the other hand practically dismantled China piece by piece.