Important Going Forward

[Bear Ribs]

Here's the link to The Sietch Discord. Hopefully I have it right, I don't know a lot about it.

Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.

discord.gg

 

[Dragonofchaos]

I came upon this site looking for things to read, stayed for the politics as I started siding with the right. Its been an interesting experience for me.

 

[ShieldWife]

Ultimently I am glad that Zoe took this journey with us, we had all been through a lot of pain and fuckery. In a normal world none of us would be in this situation.

But we do not live in that normal world, we live in a world were left wing political violence has been normalized, where the proscription lists of the left have been put in place to ruin peoples careers for about 4 years now, and where mass censorship is a thing. A world where places of worship are forcibly closed but strip clubs are kept open because their 'essential'.

Zoe was brave to walk with us for as long as she could and I commend her bravery, but there comes a point where sadly she cant walk with us any more. I under stand why, like I said we live in pretty dark times. I honestly wish her the best in her personal life and in new ventures, and wish that the world was not an insane clusterfuck.

Unfortuantly it is.

I agree with this very much. We can’t expect anybody to jeopardize their livelihood. Though, America as it has existed is slipping away from us. In a very real sense, all of us face that same risk for our various forms of political activism. Not just because what we say is illegal, it very seldom is, but because far too many people with power in our society would have our beliefs become de facto (if not de jure) illegal.

How many of us would want our employers knowing that we advocate conservative politics? How many conservative Americans, in fact, would be alright with their employer knowing something as innocent as the fact that they voted for Trump? Not many in my experience.

Personally, I can confess that my own activism has been curtailed by fear of doxxing, especially as some of my activities became more widely visible. Not for myself, but for my family who might be in danger from it.

It is a serious problem that most of us face to varying degrees and it will certainly get worse with recent leftist victories and as they become more bold about tightening the screws on dissent.

So I can’t blame anybody for having that fear, but we also can’t let such fear paralyze us. The less our site’s owner is vulnerable to such dangers, the better. The left has become so powerful and radical that they have pathologized any kind of dissent - people who don’t have faith in their propaganda are crazed conspiracy theorists, people who don’t devoutly accept their moral pronouncements are evil bigots who are literally on the same level as the SS rounding up people to bring to the concentration camps. Any meaningful dissent will be called radicalism, racism, reactionary, fanatical, treasonous, bigoted, conspiratorial, sexist, and probably a bunch of other intersectional buzz words to describe heretics.

If the things we say on this forum don’t get called those things, then our words and discussion will be hollow, they will be empty false opposition to the tyrannical forces working to destroy everything good about western civilization.

Where was I going with this? I forget. Oh yeah, we shouldn’t blame someone who is scared of real world consequences, but we all face those threats to varying degrees and we’re going to have to face worse if we’re going to win and we’re also going to face worse if we lose.

 

[Navarro]

Can we split off a user-only Original Fiction section for "first rights" purposes?

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Can we split off a user-only Original Fiction section for "first rights" purposes?

Would the site own said Original Fiction or would the writer in theory be able to still sell it on Amazon or somewhere else?

 

[LordSunhawk]

I have unlocked and reopened the Politics subforum (it should be active at this time)

However, I have locked the current election threads and would ask members to please refrain (for the moment) from creating new ones as I intend to create a dedicated subforum for the 2020 election with heightened moderation to keep things on an even keel.

Please remember to follow civility rules, and all other forum rules.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

There is a The Sietch Discord but it sees very little use. I think I'm the only one to post there since November.

There is an official TS discord, exactly four people have access to it and it isn't used for anything because we could never get it to integrate with the forum correctly. Beyond that, no official TS discord exists. So whatever discord you are on is entirely unofficial and lacking in staff sanction or support.

 

[The Original Sixth]

The wider issue was that the election thread itself was becoming a cesspool of trolling, counter-trolling, users calling to ignore other users based on their political affiliation (even when they gave reasoned arguments), other users gloating and baiting. The quality of the discussion went to shit, almost meme-level posts.

The solution is not to lock it, but a tighter moderation. In practice the elections thread had been locked, reopened, relocked, again reopened ad nauseum, with nothing but a warning each time, barely even threadbans. Then, suddenly, the hammer came down and the entire subforum was locked, including threads that have nothing to do with the 2020 election (why can I no longer discuss Iran?) which is insane.

Why weren't the offending users threadbanned for a week, even 2 or 3 weeks? Why not clean up the tainted threads? It can't be a manpower issue, this forum is small and there are plenty of moderators.

I genuinely want to hear your reasoning behind a subforum lock @The Original Sixth

Essentially, there was just no real productive discussion on the election going forward. And there probably won't be for the next few weeks.

 

[Cherico]

I think what we need is a post limit before you can post in politcal chat.

It would weed out most of the trolls.

 

[GoldRanger]

Essentially, there was just no real productive discussion on the election going forward. And there probably won't be for the next few weeks.

I don't think that such drastic measures should be taken on a "probably".

And if there's no productive discussion you surgically eliminate the troublemakers, not nuke the entire thing.

 

[ShieldWife]

I must admit, I’m still a bit perplexed over claims from people here that the Sietch is some kind of hive of scum and villainy. I’ve seen a rude exchange here or there or maybe a few overly edgy posts, but I haven’t really seen the big problem here with trolls, incivility, horrible tirades, or the like. Are trouble makers really such a problem that we need measures more draconian than a few warnings or tread bans?

 

[Rocinante]

I don't think that such drastic measures should be taken on a "probably".

And if there's no productive discussion you surgically eliminate the troublemakers, not nuke the entire thing.

Well my question is: why does it have to be 'productive' in the first place?

If the user base is happy sharing Tweets and YouTube videos....what's the problem with that? Why MUST it be "productive?"

 

[GoldRanger]

Well my question is: why does it have to be 'productive' in the first place?

If the user base is happy sharing Tweets and YouTube videos....what's the problem with that? Why MUST it be "productive?"

Maybe we need separate subforums for "productive discussions" and "everything goes". That way everybody gets what they want.

 

[Rocinante]

Maybe we need separate subforums for "productive discussions" and "everything goes". That way everybody gets what they want.

Yeah. I kind of liked the more freestyle posting here.

It's more casual. Not everything has to be a super serious discussion ALL THE TIME. If some users just want to vent or drop a tweet, I don't see the big deal.

It made me like this place better than our sister sites.

Perhaps that's something out new owner should consider. Part of the appeal of this place is the more relaxed atmosphere around what you're allowed to post and how "serious" the discussion needs to be.

 

[GoldRanger]

Yeah. I kind of liked the more freestyle posting here.

It's more casual. Not everything has to be a super serious discussion ALL THE TIME. If some users just want to vent or drop a tweet, I don't see the big deal.

It made me like this place better than our sister sites.

Perhaps that's something out new owner should consider. Part of the appeal of this place is the more relaxed atmosphere around what you're allowed to post and how "serious" the discussion needs to be.

That's a good point, and I agree with it. But the problem starts when some of the users start calling for everyone to ignore other users because they're saying something they don't like. The line has to be drawn somewhere (I don't think any of us will enjoy a completely "line-less" environment), and toxic behavior like that and similar sounds like a good place to start.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

At the risk of getting banned, I'm just going to address the elephant in the room and say that frankly both in terms of the state of the West and the state of the internet in general, we are in a cold war Mexican standoff, if peace and civility was ever an option when it comes to politics, I'm 99% sure that time passed a long time ago. I mean just on this site alone how many different political factions are here? At this point I don't see what debating will really do at this point. Considering the lines are pretty much already drawn.

That being said, considering that the biggest majority here seem to think the primary purpose of this site is for the politics, my opinion is at best overruled. I just don't think anyone should be surprised when there are times when things get verbally ugly.

 

[LTR]

Would the site own said Original Fiction or would the writer in theory be able to still sell it on Amazon or somewhere else?

The issue with 'First Rights' as is my understanding is that if your writing a creative work and publishing (posting) it on any forum, not just The Sietch, is that publishers will tend to be cold on said work since they technically don't have 'First Rights' on publishing the work. It's already out there and available on the internet presumably as opposed to 'The Sietch' having ownership of whatever you post on our website. That's why you are reminded if you post something original on our forum, you could be losing 'first rights' for publishing that work later on. It has nothing to do with The Sietch itself but the fact your posting it here first which may hamper your chances or opportunities at publishing the material later with an actual publisher (though you can still presumably self publish).

In regards to 'owning' content, as you can see from our TOS:

1. Content Ownership. The Sietch is a content creation and social media platform. You retain sole ownership of every text post, image post, video, audio file, creative work, and commentary which you post to The Sietch. You permanently retain life-long sole ownership regardless of posting these materials on The Sietch or elsewhere. You also grant a permanent, non-exclusive, irrevocable, transferable, royalty-free license for The Sietch and Belter Alliance Media LLC to use your content as defined above. This grant is automatic upon using The Sietch.

This is standard for forums so that Users can't show up out of the blue and demand the staff remove all of their content for them, spam us with takedown demands or threaten to sue us at their beck and whim and other annoying BS.

So long story short, yes you can publish (or self publish on Amazon and/or elsewhere) your works even if you post it on The Sietch first.

 

[Jormungandr]

At the risk of getting banned, I'm just going to address the elephant in the room and say that frankly both in terms of the state of the West and the state of the internet in general, we are in a cold war Mexican standoff, if peace and civility was ever an option when it comes to politics, I'm 99% sure that time passed a long time ago. I mean just on this site alone how many different political factions are here? At this point I don't see what debating will really do at this point. Considering the lines are pretty much already drawn.

That being said, considering that the biggest majority here seem to think the primary purpose of this site is for the politics, my opinion is at best overruled. I just don't think anyone should be surprised when there are times when things get verbally ugly.

It's not just (presumably by your post) America that has fractured online and offline -- in the UK, we're at each other's throats due to the Pandemic's handling (Johnson and the rest of the MPs are lucky they're not being lynched by the UK population and strung up by a lamp-post), Sturgeon being so mentally deficient that even her fellow Scots think she's fucking nuttier than Nutella, and Brexit's overall bungling and the EU's desperation. In Australia and New Zealand, the Left is pretty much in control of their governments -- the idiot Aussie PM actually walked into their parliament wearing a burka to show "solidarity", for fuck's sake.

Let's not even mention the batshit insanity going on in Europe and Sweden (amusingly enough, Swedish men are looking at more feminine Asian women now, which is pissing off the Swedish women because, shocker, men aren't into masculine, batshit crazy feminists with blue hair!).

Western civilization has let the rot set in so much that the foundation itself is eroding -- no, I'm not talking about religion being a cure-all like I've seen many tout, but common sense and decency has been thrown out the window for zealotry and bigotry in most things, for most things.

"No, I'm not interested in dating a woman that has been sleeping around with a new guy/girl every two or three days since her teens. Yes, if you can call that "slut-shaming", then I am slut-shaming her. No, I don't have some odd, pathological urge to look for virgins-until-married women or "good, Christian women", just one that isn't a whore that sells for free and possesses common sense."

"I'm pro-choice to an extent--"
"BABY-KILLER! MURDERER!"
"Ah, so you're fine with women sleeping around constantly and being "in tune" with their liberated sexuality. Good choice, friend! Let the tits flow free!"
"Um..."

"You can't criticize X, Y, or Z because that'd mean you're an ist, a phobe, or am ism!"
"Uh, you do realize the Black, Muslim dude shot that cop in the face, right? And that White, Christian dude beat that lesbian sister of his to death? They both committed terrible crimes as people, not because they're X, Y, or Z."
"RACIST! SEXIST! RELIGIONPHOBE!"
[the above is especially ironic given the Left's general attitude towards religion that isn't Islam/useful cat's paws]

"I'm actually Center-Right--"
"Lies! There is no Center! If you're further Right than us Leftards, you're a Nazi. And it's perfectly fine to destroy the lives of Nazis as they're social cancer. Sieg Heil, Comrade!"
"...You do know how hypocritical you all sound now, right?"

In America at least, it's getting to the point where a Second Civil War may need to happen to literally save Western civilization as a whole by giving these nuts a well-deserved boot to the head, and we're already starting to see signs of it -- balkanization of States and individual settlements, Left and Right-aligned mobs and organizations actively attacking one another, et cetera.

The next ten, maybe twenty years are going to be "make or break", I feel.

 

[Airedale260]

Did you even read the announcement post from The_Comet_King?

This wasn't a temporary shut down for the cooling of heads; this was a permanent shut down, because they felt that "the stability of the Constitution of the United States, and the Republic it so enshrines" was being threatened by what was being said.

I believe Zoe also mentioned that this was meant to kill the forum by driving away the posters. How much it was about that, and how much it was really about the Stability of the Constitution isn't clear.

To circle back to this briefly, my guess is that one or more people on here have security clearances that could be threatened. Since one of the areas reviewed is associations, namely whether an applicant/holder is or ever has been a member of an organization dedicated to the use of force to overthrow the U.S. government, or engaged in activities intended to deprive people of their constitutional rights or discourage them from exercising such rights.

And yes, advocating for secession falls under this. As does advocating for positions that would violate the U.S. constitution in a substantial manner. While it may be nothing more than really idiotic spleen venting, I can see why there would be a decision to just lock it down outright and upset forum members rather than have to deal with the shitstorm permitting it to continue would cause, and having to explain why it was allowed to federal background investigators, or, worse, federal law enforcement officials.

The only Discord that connects to The Sietch that I know of is the Battletech game I am part of that LordSunhawk is the GM of.

Ooh. Is this something people can apply to join in the future?

I must admit, I’m still a bit perplexed over claims from people here that the Sietch is some kind of hive of scum and villainy. I’ve seen a rude exchange here or there or maybe a few overly edgy posts, but I haven’t really seen the big problem here with trolls, incivility, horrible tirades, or the like. Are trouble makers really such a problem that we need measures more draconian than a few warnings or tread bans?

Put it this way, the election thread and election fraud thread wound up becoming so toxic that they’d probably qualify as Superfund sites. Not to mention the discourse was at QAnon/4chan levels of ‘quality.’ And it was starting to spill over into other threads.

 

[GoldRanger]

It's not just (presumably by your post) America that has fractured online and offline -- in the UK, we're at each other's throats due to the Pandemic's handling (Johnson and the rest of the MPs are lucky they're not being lynched by the UK population and strung up by a lamp-post), Sturgeon being so mentally deficient that even her fellow Scots think she's fucking nuttier than Nutella, and Brexit's overall bungling and the EU's desperation. In Australia and New Zealand, the Left is pretty much in control of their governments -- the idiot Aussie PM actually walked into their parliament wearing a burka to show "solidarity", for fuck's sake.

Let's not even mention the batshit insanity going on in Europe and Sweden (amusingly enough, Swedish men are looking at more feminine Asian women now, which is pissing off the Swedish women because, shocker, men aren't into masculine, batshit crazy feminists with blue hair!).

Western civilization has let the rot set in so much that the foundation itself is eroding -- no, I'm not talking about religion being a cure-all like I've seen many tout, but common sense and decency has been thrown out the window for zealotry and bigotry in most things, for most things.

"No, I'm not interested in dating a woman that has been sleeping around with a new guy/girl every two or three days since her teens. Yes, if you can call that "slut-shaming", then I am slut-shaming her. No, I don't have some odd, pathological urge to look for virgins-until-married women or "good, Christian women", just one that isn't a whore that sells for free and possesses common sense."

"I'm pro-choice to an extent--"
"BABY-KILLER! MURDERER!"
"Ah, so you're fine with women sleeping around constantly and being "in tune" with their liberated sexuality. Good choice, friend! Let the tits flow free!"
"Um..."

"You can't criticize X, Y, or Z because that'd mean you're an ist, a phobe, or am ism!"
"Uh, you do realize the Black, Muslim dude shot that cop in the face, right? And that White, Christian dude beat that lesbian sister of his to death? They both committed terrible crimes as people, not because they're X, Y, or Z."
"RACIST! SEXIST! RELIGIONPHOBE!"
[the above is especially ironic given the Left's general attitude towards religion that isn't Islam/useful cat's paws]

"I'm actually Center-Right--"
"Lies! There is no Center! If you're further Right than us Leftards, you're a Nazi. And it's perfectly fine to destroy the lives of Nazis as they're social cancer. Sieg Heil, Comrade!"
"...You do know how hypocritical you all sound now, right?"

In America at least, it's getting to the point where a Second Civil War may need to happen to literally save Western civilization as a whole by giving these nuts a well-deserved boot to the head, and we're already starting to see signs of it -- balkanization of States and individual settlements, Left and Right-aligned mobs and organizations actively attacking one another, et cetera.

The next ten, maybe twenty years are going to be "make or break", I feel.

Not the thread for this.