Important Going Forward

[LordSunhawk]

As I promised in my introduction, I would like to throw out a few topics on which I am hoping to get feedback from the community.

First. I am considering implementing an ombudsman position from amongst the userbase, a small rotating group of 3 or 4 members who would have direct input to staff and leadership in regards to forum affairs. This would not be a staff position, nor any sort of political LARP sort of deal, but rather members in good standing who would have more visibility into staff discussions and be in a position to give feedback and be the 5 year old in the room. I would appreciate feedback on this concept, if you think it is workable or not.

Second. I intend to expand the Creative section of the website, with subforums devoted to the arts as well as writing. In addition I intend to promote the Alternate History section in the hopes of attracting more content creators to the Sietch. I would appreciate feedback and ideas on this.

Third. This is food for thought. In the near future I will be opening up applications for staff positions. If you are willing to commit to enforcing the rules of the forum fairly and evenly, are in good standing in the forum, and have a history of civil engagement even with those you disagree with, please consider applying when applications are opened.

 

[gral]

Second. I intend to expand the Creative section of the website, with subforums devoted to the arts as well as writing. In addition I intend to promote the Alternate History section in the hopes of attracting more content creators to the Sietch. I would appreciate feedback and ideas on this.

I think it's a good idea, especially in regards to the Alternate History section. I think Alternate History boards not AH.com haven't exactly taken off(at least I know none which really has), there is space for AH content that doesn't fit the alternative maps subreddit.

 

[MrBirthday]

I intend to expand the Creative section of the website

Good. I've thought for a while that the non-political part of this site was positively anemic.

In addition I intend to promote the Alternate History section in the hopes of attracting more content creators to the Sietch.

That would be nice. May I ask how you intend to promote it?

 

[Battlegrinder]

First. I am considering implementing an ombudsman position from amongst the userbase, a small rotating group of 3 or 4 members who would have direct input to staff and leadership in regards to forum affairs. This would not be a staff position, nor any sort of political LARP sort of deal, but rather members in good standing who would have more visibility into staff discussions and be in a position to give feedback and be the 5 year old in the room. I would appreciate feedback on this concept, if you think it is workable or not.

I'm not sure that would work out, at least not in the traditional meaning of the term where the ombudsman is sort of an intermediary between staff and leadership. In my observation, a lot of the issues that have cropped up here, or that I've seen come up in analogous situations have been because the userbase or portions of the userbase loses faith in the staff. Given this position is only open to users that the staff consider trustworthy (and it can't be any other way), if there's a breakdown in trust between users and staff, I don't think those users would care very much for the people they'd see as the staff's chosen toadies either.

New rules or policies could of course be open to feedback from the forum, but that could easily be done publically, I don't think there would be significant benefit to limiting feedback to a smaller group of users.

 

[almostinsane]

As I promised in my introduction, I would like to throw out a few topics on which I am hoping to get feedback from the community.

First. I am considering implementing an ombudsman position from amongst the userbase, a small rotating group of 3 or 4 members who would have direct input to staff and leadership in regards to forum affairs. This would not be a staff position, nor any sort of political LARP sort of deal, but rather members in good standing who would have more visibility into staff discussions and be in a position to give feedback and be the 5 year old in the room. I would appreciate feedback on this concept, if you think it is workable or not.

Second. I intend to expand the Creative section of the website, with subforums devoted to the arts as well as writing. In addition I intend to promote the Alternate History section in the hopes of attracting more content creators to the Sietch. I would appreciate feedback and ideas on this.

Third. This is food for thought. In the near future I will be opening up applications for staff positions. If you are willing to commit to enforcing the rules of the forum fairly and evenly, are in good standing in the forum, and have a history of civil engagement even with those you disagree with, please consider applying when applications are opened.

I'd like to volunteer for the ombudsman position if you decide to implement it.

 

[LordSunhawk]

I'm not sure that would work out, at least not in the traditional meaning of the term where the ombudsman is sort of an intermediary between staff and leadership. In my observation, a lot of the issues that have cropped up here, or that I've seen come up in analogous situations have been because the userbase or portions of the userbase loses faith in the staff. Given this position is only open to users that the staff consider trustworthy (and it can't be any other way), if there's a breakdown in trust between users and staff, I don't think those users would care very much for the people they'd see as the staff's chosen toadies either.

New rules or policies could of course be open to feedback from the forum, but that could easily be done publically, I don't think there would be significant benefit to limiting feedback to a smaller group of users.

The idea isn't so much that only this group would have feedback and such, and by 'in good standing' I mean members who have no active disciplinary actions against them, not members who kiss up to staff. I am hoping that those members would actually be selected by the user base, not by staff.

Their main role would be to be in the room where the sausage is made, so they can point out when we're too deep in the weeds that we need to sit up and sniff the coffee before any changes are proposed. I do not intend to ever unilaterally make changes, but rather to post them for comment and consideration by the userbase.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

First. I am considering implementing an ombudsman position from amongst the userbase, a small rotating group of 3 or 4 members who would have direct input to staff and leadership in regards to forum affairs. This would not be a staff position, nor any sort of political LARP sort of deal, but rather members in good standing who would have more visibility into staff discussions and be in a position to give feedback and be the 5 year old in the room. I would appreciate feedback on this concept, if you think it is workable or not.

Difficult to stop it from becoming a source of gratification for busybodies. I suppose it could be made useful. Perhaps mitigate the worst tendencies with rotations? Three months on, nine months off, to ensure it doesn't become a way for ticks to dig in.

You have not mentioned the politics section. This was the single highest volume section of the site. What future do you envision for the discussion of politics and current events on The Sietch?

 

[Battlegrinder]

The idea isn't so much that only this group would have feedback and such, and by 'in good standing' I mean members who have no active disciplinary actions against them, not members who kiss up to staff. I am hoping that those members would actually be selected by the user base, not by staff.

I'm not saying they would only be the suckups, I'm saying that when tensions flare up, they would be seen as suckups, even if selected by the userbase, since the more hostile parties are also usually in the minority they would be unlikely to get someone they trust selected.

Their main role would be to be in the room where the sausage is made, so they can point out when we're too deep in the weeds that we need to sit up and sniff the coffee before any changes are proposed. I do not intend to ever unilaterally make changes, but rather to post them for comment and consideration by the userbase.

So the intended procedure would be staff discussion > ombudsman feedback > forum feedback?

 

[LordSunhawk]

Difficult to stop it from becoming a source of gratification for busybodies. I suppose it could be made useful. Perhaps mitigate the worst tendencies with rotations? Three months on, nine months off, to ensure it doesn't become a way for ticks to dig in.

You have not mentioned the politics section. This was the single highest volume section of the site. What future do you envision for the discussion of politics and current events on The Sietch?

Short term, for the politics section, will be keeping it closed for another few days. I will then reopen it. By then, I hope to have new guidelines in place for the mod staff to help keep us all singing from the same hymnal when it comes to moderation actions.

I'm not saying they would only be the suckups, I'm saying that when tensions flare up, they would be seen as suckups, even if selected by the userbase, since the more hostile parties are also usually in the minority they would be unlikely to get someone they trust selected.

So the intended procedure would be staff discussion > ombudsman feedback > forum feedback?

That is the intended procedure, yes. As far as minority viewpoint representation, I hope that my track record of being willing to listen to feedback even from people who disagree strongly with me will encourage them to trust that I will listen to what they say. Human nature is what it is, sadly, and I cannot control that anymore than anybody else, but I can do my best and hope and pray that it is sufficient.

 

[The Original Sixth]

Difficult to stop it from becoming a source of gratification for busybodies. I suppose it could be made useful. Perhaps mitigate the worst tendencies with rotations? Three months on, nine months off, to ensure it doesn't become a way for ticks to dig in.

You have not mentioned the politics section. This was the single highest volume section of the site. What future do you envision for the discussion of politics and current events on The Sietch?

This is my problem with this too.

As for politics, put a lid on it for hmmm, maybe until January or until all lawsuits are effectively over. If people want to talk about politics, they can take it to discord. At this point, there really isn't much positive contribution to the political forum, because we're in such political discord.

 

[Spartan303]

Good. I've thought for a while that the non-political part of this site was positively anemic.

I know. And that bothered me the most. While we're mostly known for politics, it is a good creative writing section and perhaps Art and other things along those lines that build and maintain a Forum. Spacebattles is a perfect example. A lot goes on in Whitehall and NSFD but its the Creative writing section that is the real engine there. Hell, most of the people there didn't even know, nor care about the whole PM Snaffu.

If we could get a creative section even a tenth as active as that? We'll be golden.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

perhaps Art

I'll get back to you once I manage to make something in Aseprite that I don't look at and suddenly want to tear down.

 

[LordsFire]

I know. And that bothered me the most. While we're mostly known for politics, it is a good creative writing section and perhaps Art and other things along those lines that build and maintain a Forum. Spacebattles is a perfect example. A lot goes on in Whitehall and NSFD but its the Creative writing section that is the real engine there. Hell, most of the people there didn't even know, nor care about the whole PM Snaffu.

If we could get a creative section even a tenth as active as that? We'll be golden.

There's a certain critical threshold that needs to be crossed, where people start coming, because it's known as a place with good content, so content creators post as well. The Sietch hasn't particularly approached that, though I might be willing to make it the primary host for one of my future projects as a means of helping.

 

[Laskar]

This is my problem with this too.

As for politics, put a lid on it for hmmm, maybe until January or until all lawsuits are effectively over. If people want to talk about politics, they can take it to discord. At this point, there really isn't much positive contribution to the political forum, because we're in such political discord.

I second this proposal. The politics section may need to be closed for a bit longer, or restricted in some way. For one thing, I think I've noticed activity increase across the forum ever since the political section was padlocked. The staff will have the statistics to know if this is true or just a figment of my imagination, but I think that people are engaging with the rest of the forum's content now that they can't vent all their energies in the political forum.

I've been in some other political forums, and I've noticed that they tend to be healthiest when politics is a secondary reason why people come to the forum. I am not recommending that political discussion be cut off entirely. I just think we have a critical mass of posters that will only keep growing if they spend their time on stuff other than breaking news.

 

[Cherico]

I'd like to volunteer for the ombudsman position if you decide to implement it.

seconding the motion, sane has a decent head on his shoulders and has been burned like a lot of us by past actions.

He's also earned my trust over the years.

 

[GoldRanger]

This is my problem with this too.

As for politics, put a lid on it for hmmm, maybe until January or until all lawsuits are effectively over. If people want to talk about politics, they can take it to discord. At this point, there really isn't much positive contribution to the political forum, because we're in such political discord.

I think this measure is way too draconian. It's enough to clamp down on election talk, for example, but I don't think a thread like, say, "Pentagon to cut support of CIA counterterrorism missions by Jan 5.", should be affected just because a few loud-mouthed users are making trouble in the election thread.

 

[Terthna]

This is my problem with this too.

As for politics, put a lid on it for hmmm, maybe until January or until all lawsuits are effectively over. If people want to talk about politics, they can take it to discord. At this point, there really isn't much positive contribution to the political forum, because we're in such political discord.

No offense, but I could not disagree more. Politics are not only the lifeblood of this community, but they're even more important now considering what's going on with the election. And quite frankly, having it shut down for even a second longer than required by whatever deal struck with Zoe is unacceptable. Telling people that they can't talk about that sort of thing on this forum, for any length of time, is no different from telling them that they're not welcome on this forum.

And personally? This is a hill I'm willing to die on.

I second this proposal. The politics section may need to be closed for a bit longer, or restricted in some way. For one thing, I think I've noticed activity increase across the forum ever since the political section was padlocked. The staff will have the statistics to know if this is true or just a figment of my imagination, but I think that people are engaging with the rest of the forum's content now that they can't vent all their energies in the political forum.

I've been in some other political forums, and I've noticed that they tend to be healthiest when politics is a secondary reason why people come to the forum. I am not recommending that political discussion be cut off entirely. I just think we have a critical mass of posters that will only keep growing if they spend their time on stuff other than breaking news.

In all likelihood, that's a temporary phenomena; a brief surge in response to the fact that there's nothing else to do here. The longer discussion of politics is banned, the less people will engage with the forum, and the more they will contemplate abandoning it entirely. Take me for example; I'm basically a hair's breadth from logging out, and never coming back. And if I thought for an instant that the new management would willingly continue the old's recent policy in terms of politics, I would.

 

[Sir 1000]

I'm glad for the focus on content that's not political as far to many rightwing or free speech sites become nothing more than a clone of something else that only talks politics. Like for example instead of right wing knitting forum it would be knitting forum that happens to be right wing. Which is better for the sites health in the long run. Having the site grow and expand outside politics is something necessary for survival i think.

I know many members will claim that this forum isn't right wing but at this point freedom of speech is undeniably a right wing position with the censorship from the left online. I hope the new owner realizes that most of the current userbase are essentially refugees from leftist dominated spaces. I hope they realize that all the niches to the left of center are already taken by others with larger userbases and that the only real niches left are to the right. I think bringing back the political section asap would be wise as the other sections simply don't have the content for now. I'm still reading the politics section more than creative writing and it's closed

 

[GoldRanger]

Something that needs to be understood here is that much of the site's current membership, for good or ill, is very politically opinionated. Politics dominate the discourse even on subforums that has nothing to do with it. In the "Media and Fandom Discussion" subforum the second largest thread on the first page at the moment is '"Woke" Franchises'.

I agree that it's best for the forum's overall health if we transition to a less political and more "nerdy" forum. Hell, it might be best for the mental health of some people in this forum... But this is not something that can be done overnight, not without losing most of the active userbase. You can't outright nuke the political forum and expect everything to work out just dandy. By all means, keep a tight lid on election topics specifically, but what's needed here, IMO, is a gentle touch, not a hacksaw. Just my 5 cents.

 

[Rocinante]

Something that needs to be understood here is that much of the site's current membership, for good or ill, is very politically opinionated. Politics dominate the discourse even on subforums that has nothing to do with it. In the "Media and Fandom Discussion" subforum the second largest thread on the first page at the moment is '"Woke" Franchises'.

I agree that it's best for the forum's overall health if we transition to a less political and more "nerdy" forum. Hell, it might be best for the mental health of some people in this forum... But this is not something that can be done overnight, not without losing most of the active userbase. You can't outright nuke the political forum and expect everything to work out just dandy. By all means, keep a tight lid on election topics specifically, but what's needed here, IMO, is a gentle touch, not a hacksaw. Just my 5 cents.

Well said.

I am here for the politics. I don't talk politics on social media, or around friends that often, or at work.

My political outlets are web forums and reddit.

If this place had no politics, I'd have go somewhere else.

Though I am all for expanding other stuff just for the health of the site. I probably wouldn't use those other sections too often myself.