Future War with (Red) China Hypotheticals/Theorycrafting

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
Give us a REAL reason to doubt its validity other than it's possible to fake it. It's not like saying the US has expanded a Pacific military base is such an outlandish claim that I feel the need to be super-skeptical about it.
Here's the thing, there are groups who would profit immensely in a scuffle between the US and China... and I don't mean in economic profits either. Manipulating events to ensure that things go in that direction would be beneficial for those that want such a scenario to happen. Remember, we've seen throughout history that individuals and small groups pushing things in such a way that nation-states are forced to go for very sub-optimal plays for their aims.
We know they are thanks to the expansion of bases like Humpherys and the like.
Hence why I wanted it verified first.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
The Chinese PLAAF released a video on Weeabo Weibo, a Chinese social media website, showing Chinese H-6 Bombers taking off from a desert air base and targeting an Airbase in the Pacific that looks suspiciously like Andersen AFB on Guam.


However Twitter and Social Media users have noticed the Chinese doing what Chinese do, copying better products and making them their own.

 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
The Chinese PLAAF released a video on Weeabo Weibo, a Chinese social media website, showing Chinese H-6 Bombers taking off from a desert air base and targeting an Airbase in the Pacific that looks suspiciously like Andersen AFB on Guam.


However Twitter and Social Media users have noticed the Chinese doing what Chinese do, copying better products and making them their own.


If it were real you would know from me coming on here celebrating going to war
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
The Chinese PLAAF released a video on Weeabo Weibo, a Chinese social media website, showing Chinese H-6 Bombers taking off from a desert air base and targeting an Airbase in the Pacific that looks suspiciously like Andersen AFB on Guam.


However Twitter and Social Media users have noticed the Chinese doing what Chinese do, copying better products and making them their own.


You cannot fool the internet savvy.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder


So this belongs here I figure.

China has basically won against the US even in the minds of some of our military strategists, as it seems even our own military is admitting China would beat us, and fast, if it came to a shooting war after a 'biological attack' aka the Wu Flu.

Congrats to Xi the Pooh, he did with a modified virus and money/influence what no one since the Brits in 1812 have done; beat the US on our own soil, and he did it without firing a shot.
 

Wargamer08

Well-known member
I mean, it's doom mongering from the MSM about the US military? Of course it's bad. They haven't had anything good to say about any army that wasn't the Red army since the US intervened against the Nazis. The facts are that the US has a lot more bases and exposed forces forward deployed then it can cover with it's current rules of engagement. It will be rough on those forces, but that's the price of doing business and why they are forward deployed. It's the US counter strike that never gets brought up and what US military doctrine is currently based about.
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Such articles are a regular thing, especially when the various armed forces branches are competing for the bigger slice of the budget pie.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard


So this belongs here I figure.

China has basically won against the US even in the minds of some of our military strategists, as it seems even our own military is admitting China would beat us, and fast, if it came to a shooting war after a 'biological attack' aka the Wu Flu.

Congrats to Xi the Pooh, he did with a modified virus and money/influence what no one since the Brits in 1812 have done; beat the US on our own soil, and he did it without firing a shot.


Yeah, I had a look at that days ago. Let me break it down for you into real simple terms:

"If China has all the advantages and uses WMDs, the US military's forward deployments are completely screwed."

No shit. If you completely tilt a scenario in favor of one side, the outcome will favor that side. In the real world, the PLA has never actually fought a modern military, and a huge amount of their equipment is untested in battle. Nobody knows for certain how it will turn out. That article might cover an accurate worst-case scenario, and it might just be what the CCP's leadership desperately hope would or will happen.

Either way, as others have noted, this connects meaningfully to budget time in Washington DC.
 

liberty90

Evil Neoliberal Cat
I must honestly say that I'm not an expert in military matters, but I heard that China has pretty good conventional (non-nuclear) anti-ship missiles. Please correct me if I'm wrong/misinformed.

If these are really good, that could be a cheap modern way to kill carriers.
 

Wargamer08

Well-known member
I must honestly say that I'm not an expert in military matters, but I heard that China has pretty good conventional (non-nuclear) anti-ship missiles. Please correct me if I'm wrong/misinformed.

If these are really good, that could be a cheap modern way to kill carriers.
At least when the Russians were said to have the same in the 70s and 80s they at least used the missiles or sold them to proxies for use. When exactly have the Chinese had a chance to test shit? Again it was Russian equipment in Syria. So far all the Chinese have is untested and unproven claims. From communists. About how good their knock off Russian shipwreck missiles are.
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
They are nothing special and in order to kill a carrier with anti-ship missiles you would need to get a launch platform close enough, which is kind of hard, due to carrier aircraft and it's combat group.
They claim their anti-ship ballistic missiles are supposed to be able to do the job, which would be a huge upset if true, but they haven't done any real testing so far, so all we have are fantastic claims.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
I must honestly say that I'm not an expert in military matters, but I heard that China has pretty good conventional (non-nuclear) anti-ship missiles. Please correct me if I'm wrong/misinformed.

If these are really good, that could be a cheap modern way to kill carriers.

They represent a possible threat. The US Navy has spent the last half-century developing and fielding ways to protect their Carriers from threats. Communist-made weapon systems have a strong history of being over-hyped by those who develop them, but not being anywhere near that impressive. Still dangerous, but nowhere near as capable as claimed.

All of that said, a mass-launch saturation attack would probably actually be fairly dangerous to a carrier group, if they can send them all into the correct target area. Practically speaking, I expect that the Chinese might be able to destroy a single Carrier, but in doing so they'd expend their ability to threaten a carrier group, both due to how many missiles they'd have to use, and counter-strikes taking out a fair bit of their arsenal.

Now, if the Chinese missiles actually perform somewhere approaching the level Chinese PR says they will, then...

US Carriers will have to operate from further away in the event of a war. They'd sink one, maybe two if the pair in the SCS are still sailing together, but after that, the US Navy just wouldn't move them into a range where they can reasonably be threatened. It'd degrade response and loiter times for USN aircraft supporting Taiwan (or whatever less likely circumstance they need to act in), but it wouldn't destroy it altogether.

Unless the PLAN gets to the point where their own Carriers are a fully peer threat to an American Supercarrier task force, the Chinese still will not be able to challenge the USN on the high seas, which means that they can't force the US to stop supporting regional allies. Even if the Chinese do get to that point, we have five times as many Carriers as they do, and ours are bigger besides.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder


So this belongs here I figure.

China has basically won against the US even in the minds of some of our military strategists, as it seems even our own military is admitting China would beat us, and fast, if it came to a shooting war after a 'biological attack' aka the Wu Flu.

Congrats to Xi the Pooh, he did with a modified virus and money/influence what no one since the Brits in 1812 have done; beat the US on our own soil, and he did it without firing a shot.

Eh.
Don't belive this sorta thing. It is mainly saying if we don't retaliate to China using WMDs we lose...
Which wouldn't happen.

As others have said, budget time and you wanna get that budget.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Eh.
Don't belive this sorta thing. It is mainly saying if we don't retaliate to China using WMDs we lose...
Which wouldn't happen.

As others have said, budget time and you wanna get that budget.
And as I have said, they already did a WMD attack on the whole damn world with the Wu Flu, and the US military now seems more focused on wokeness than effectiveness.

I no longer have any confidence in anything but our nuclear forces, and if those come into play, things are FUBAR.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
And as I have said, they already did a WMD attack on the whole damn world with the Wu Flu, and the US military now seems more focused on wokeness than effectiveness.

I no longer have any confidence in anything but our nuclear forces, and if those come into play, things are FUBAR.
Bacle for fucking sakjes
IT WAS NOT A FUCKING BIO ATTACK
Stop this fucking nonsense,

No, we would not lose a war against fucking China. becuase you are in your fucking doomerism mode.
I can assure you, we wont lose, I swear to my fucking life on that...
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Bacle for fucking sakjes
IT WAS NOT A FUCKING BIO ATTACK
Stop this fucking nonsense,

No, we would not lose a war against fucking China. becuase you are in your fucking doomerism mode.
I can assure you, we wont lose, I swear to my fucking life on that...
You insisting it wasn't doesn't actually change the large amount of evidence, including whistleblowers from China itself, claiming it was.

It might not have been intentional, but that doesn't change how it has affected the world.

Nor does your instance we would beat China change the fact the current DoD is more focused on wokeness than effectiveness, as evidenced by the shit show with military brass going after Tucker Carlson for pointing out pregnant women do not belong on the front lines.

You call it doomerism, I call it being realistic about how fucked our military seems to be due to the obsession with Pentagon people trying to use it as a lab for woke bullshit. Not to mention our navy is fucking rust covered and becoming a joke for everything but the carriers and subs.
 
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Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Rule 2: No flaming
You insisting it wasn't doesn't actually change the large amount of evidence, including whistleblowers from China itself, claiming it was.

It might not have been intentional, but that doesn't change how it has affected the world.

Nor does your instance we would beat China change the fact the current DoD is more focused on wokeness than effectiveness, as evidenced by the shit show with military brass going after Tucker Carlson for pointing out pregnant women do not belong on the front lines.

You call it doomerism, I call it being realistic about how fucked our military seems to be due to the obsession with Pentagon people trying to use it as a lab for woke bullshit. Not to mention our navy is fucking rust covered and becoming a joke for everything but the carriers and subs.
BACLE YOU FUCKING MORON.

I do not care if I get a fucking hit for this but you are an idiot.

We are effective as fuck. We are the MOST effective military in the world.
The whole twitter thing was a blunder by those running the social media pages and miscommunication done by some easy hurt woman working at that level.

People like you Bacle, are the reason I will stay in the fucking military for 20 years and notr go back into the civilian world. When all you think about is "CHINA MADE A BIO WEAPON AND WE DID NOT DO SHIT! WE ARE WEAK! WO IS ME!"
Maybe, if yall decided to do something about it, instead of sitting here complaining on the fucking internet.

Do you know how we can make sure this doesnt fucking happen? Join the fucking military and get up in rank.
wanna change it in the civilian world? Then run for an election at the local level and work your fucking way up.

But obviously the guy who knows shit is wrong about the WUFLU being a Bioweapon. Obviously I am lying to try and save my own ass.

Fuck you bacle. it was not a Bio weapon, or if it was one, it was a completly useless one.

but what do I know.

Im done with this argument, I am gonna get infracted anyway. I dotn give a fuck.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
You insisting it wasn't doesn't actually change the large amount of evidence, including whistleblowers from China itself, claiming it was.

It might not have been intentional, but that doesn't change how it has affected the world.

Nor does your instance we would beat China change the fact the current DoD is more focused on wokeness than effectiveness, as evidenced by the shit show with military brass going after Tucker Carlson for pointing out pregnant women do not belong on the front lines.

You call it doomerism, I call it being realistic about how fucked our military seems to be due to the obsession with Pentagon people trying to use it as a lab for woke bullshit. Not to mention our navy is fucking rust covered and becoming a joke for everything but the carriers and subs.

Bacle I know it looks like the US miltary is taking a hit but I need you to keep some thing in mind.

As much as a dumpster fire as we are china is a much worse dumpster fire.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
BACLE YOU FUCKING MORON.

I do not care if I get a fucking hit for this but you are an idiot.

We are effective as fuck. We are the MOST effective military in the world.
The whole twitter thing was a blunder by those running the social media pages and miscommunication done by some easy hurt woman working at that level.

People like you Bacle, are the reason I will stay in the fucking military for 20 years and notr go back into the civilian world. When all you think about is "CHINA MADE A BIO WEAPON AND WE DID NOT DO SHIT! WE ARE WEAK! WO IS ME!"
Maybe, if yall decided to do something about it, instead of sitting here complaining on the fucking internet.

Do you know how we can make sure this doesnt fucking happen? Join the fucking military and get up in rank.
wanna change it in the civilian world? Then run for an election at the local level and work your fucking way up.

But obviously the guy who knows shit is wrong about the WUFLU being a Bioweapon. Obviously I am lying to try and save my own ass.

Fuck you bacle. it was not a Bio weapon, or if it was one, it was a completly useless one.

but what do I know.

Im done with this argument, I am gonna get infracted anyway. I dotn give a fuck.
You can insult me and yell at me for believing the mounting evidence, it is not going to change things.

The fact is either the bug came from a biolab, or it came from nature, and we have lots and lots of evidence pointing to it being a lab. It is also hardly useless as a bioweapon, it's been very economically and socially destructive; not every bioweapon needs to be anthrax or ebola level shit to be effective at it's goals.

And for the record, I don't think you are covering your own ass at all. I think you honestly believe what you are saying.

I think that if I and many others are right about the bug being from a biolab, we will never have hard evidence, only circumstantial, because China will have obviously sanitized the area before any foreign inspectors got there. If there is any hard evidence in US hands right now, I also expect it is in the hands of people above your paygrade who don't want to confirm what many already think, because of the implications that would follow on.

Edit:
Bacle I know it looks like the US miltary is taking a hit but I need you to keep some thing in mind.

As much as a dumpster fire as we are china is a much worse dumpster fire.
Maybe, but they are a dumpster fire with more national unity, an authoritarian give that can respond to things a lot faster than we can, and with control over the White House via their Manchurian Candidate in Biden.
 
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