Future War with (Red) China Hypotheticals/Theorycrafting

[Zachowon]

You I somewhat trust more, because you actually gave some more information. So weak on offense, but strong in a defensive war? So basically just like the Soviet Union in the 30's and 40's? They got absolutely humiliated in Finland, but when Hitler attacked their deeper into Russia he got buried by hordes. I'm also guessing that Chinese hordes would be much larger since they have the largest population. So if a war kicked off tomorrow they would probably not be able to make a succesful landing at Taiwan. But if America tries to push into mainland China, do you think they will just fold and be easy?

Also what makes you think they are weak and forever will be, and America will be strong and forever will be?

Because China will collapse. They are on the edge of it already.

And I think Chinese people won't fold easy, but it would depend on ROE and who is all invoed outside of just the US. Like is Japan and Vuetnam were invovled? There would be a lot of issues but potential war crimes

 

[King Arts]

Because China will collapse. They are on the edge of it already.

And I think Chinese people won't fold easy, but it would depend on ROE and who is all invoed outside of just the US. Like is Japan and Vuetnam were invovled? There would be a lot of issues but potential war crimes

China collapsing? That's a pretty big claim. And it's not necessarily a cause for celebration. You do realize that they are one of our largest trade partners. Also it varies but with Europe China is either their top trade partner or 2nd after us. If they actually collapsed, we would enter a recession just from losing trade with them, other nations all over the world would be in a depression, and then the reaction from ALL of our trade partners economies going to shit, would pull us into a depression as well. We'd probably suffer the least damage out of everyone, but it's a relative statement it would still suck massively.

As for a hypothetical war with China? The most likely I think is conflict over Taiwan, them trying to reincorporate it. On paper it seems like if it happened tomorrow we would push them back quite easily if we got involved, the Japanese, and Koreans might also send some help I don't know. But the government if it was smart would try to keep the war contained give China a bloody nose tell them they aren't top dog yet, but give them a way to save face and go back to "normal" and resume trade. If we are stupid we try to invade the mainland and regime change, at that point the Chinese may decide to launch nukes, or may decide to do what the Soviets did in ww2 and pull their government and industries away from the coast, and make any invasion extremely bloody and costly for the invaders. I don't think Japan, or South Korea would send any troops in that quagmire. South Korea would be worried looking at China's puppet North Korea, Japan probably learned it's lesson in the 30's and might laugh at America doing the same. Those are the most likely scenarios from what I know. Vietnam and the Phillipines won't really get involved at all. This is presuming a war in the near future and not decades from now while we still have technological superiority.

I have heard though from Spacebattles so I don't know if this is true, but that Taiwan is heavily infiltrated by the CCP and if there ever was an invasion half of their army wouldn't want to fight a war that would destroy their home and would just lay down their arms or even help and welcome the Chinese. I don't think it's necesarily true, but it's also not necesarily false since the Taiwanese are Chinese people they are both Han. They are racially the same like Austrians are Germans.

Other wars where China tries to invade or vassalize the South China Sea places like Vietnam, or farther in the Phillipines I think are unlikely but would be a much easier win for us since those nations are bigger, can support a guerrilla movement, and we can provide with enough weapons and support to easily help. As opposed to Taiwan which is just one island with one city which does not leave much room to maneuver in or hide, and in any serious fighting might be flattened.

I'm not an analyst however, what about you am I completely wrong and don't know the situation at all, or do I have a decent grasp, but not the complete picture?

 

[Zachowon]

China collapsing? That's a pretty big claim. And it's not necessarily a cause for celebration. You do realize that they are one of our largest trade partners. Also it varies but with Europe China is either their top trade partner or 2nd after us. If they actually collapsed, we would enter a recession just from losing trade with them, other nations all over the world would be in a depression, and then the reaction from ALL of our trade partners economies going to shit, would pull us into a depression as well. We'd probably suffer the least damage out of everyone, but it's a relative statement it would still suck massively.

As for a hypothetical war with China? The most likely I think is conflict over Taiwan, them trying to reincorporate it. On paper it seems like if it happened tomorrow we would push them back quite easily if we got involved, the Japanese, and Koreans might also send some help I don't know. But the government if it was smart would try to keep the war contained give China a bloody nose tell them they aren't top dog yet, but give them a way to save face and go back to "normal" and resume trade. If we are stupid we try to invade the mainland and regime change, at that point the Chinese may decide to launch nukes, or may decide to do what the Soviets did in ww2 and pull their government and industries away from the coast, and make any invasion extremely bloody and costly for the invaders. I don't think Japan, or South Korea would send any troops in that quagmire. South Korea would be worried looking at China's puppet North Korea, Japan probably learned it's lesson in the 30's and might laugh at America doing the same. Those are the most likely scenarios from what I know. Vietnam and the Phillipines won't really get involved at all. This is presuming a war in the near future and not decades from now while we still have technological superiority.

I have heard though from Spacebattles so I don't know if this is true, but that Taiwan is heavily infiltrated by the CCP and if there ever was an invasion half of their army wouldn't want to fight a war that would destroy their home and would just lay down their arms or even help and welcome the Chinese. I don't think it's necesarily true, but it's also not necesarily false since the Taiwanese are Chinese people they are both Han. They are racially the same like Austrians are Germans.

Other wars where China tries to invade or vassalize the South China Sea places like Vietnam, or farther in the Phillipines I think are unlikely but would be a much easier win for us since those nations are bigger, can support a guerrilla movement, and we can provide with enough weapons and support to easily help. As opposed to Taiwan which is just one island with one city which does not leave much room to maneuver in or hide, and in any serious fighting might be flattened.

I'm not an analyst however, what about you am I completely wrong and don't know the situation at all, or do I have a decent grasp, but not the complete picture?

You are comepltly wrong.
China is already on the brink of collapse and the outbreak hurt then a lot worse.

And don't ever trust SB on things involving China or Taiwan. They legit have CCP proganda people on there...

 

[Zachowon]

Oh, I know that the CCP like the Soviet Union before it always controlled it's media and reports and makes it's numbers higher when it's good(like wealth and production), and lower when it's good(like how many people are dying of plague). But it being on the brink of collapse is NOT good. like I said earlier about the recession thing, I mean during the cold war we did not trade with the Soviets did we? So their collapse was more an opportunity and not economic damage.

Also do you know who are the CCP agents on that site? And when you say CCP propaganda people do you mean literal as in payed by the Chinese secret service, or do you mean useful idiot as in the way the Soviets used college professors to spread cultural marxism using active measures in colleges starting in the 60's with the Hippy movement?

The latter but it could be the former as well.

And thier collapse will serve us better in the end.

I can assure you the US will remain on top

 

[King Arts]

The latter but it could be the former as well.

And thier collapse will serve us better in the end.

I can assure you the US will remain on top

Latter, former always confuse me. By latter you mean useful idiots right?

And yes I can see that disentangling could help maintain our economic independence if we survive. And I do expect us to remain on top for the next few decades, if China actually collapses as you say they will and no nuclear war then we would be on top for at least 100 years, beyond that we can't predict who would rise next. But no nation does last forever.

 

[Zachowon]

Latter, former always confuse me. By latter you mean useful idiots right?

And yes I can see that disentangling could help maintain our economic independence if we survive. And I do expect us to remain on top for the next few decades, if China actually collapses as you say they will and no nuclear war then we would be on top for at least 100 years, beyond that we can't predict who would rise next. But no nation does last forever.

Useful idiots yes.

And Chins is gonna collapse and we will laugh

 

[Zachowon]

I mean, thus is why a lot think it will be China Russia and Iran vs the rest of the world

 

[PsihoKekec]

Most of the world will sit it out.

 

[Zachowon]

I mean, not really.

 

[paulobrito]

I mean, not really.

The US and is submissive 'allies' are not the rest of the world, nor are them 'the international community'.

 

[Zachowon]

The US and is submissive 'allies' are not the rest of the world, nor are them 'the international community'.

Plenty of non submissive allies would join in against both kf those nations ESPECIALLY China.

 

[Morphic Tide]

The US and is submissive 'allies' are not the rest of the world, nor are them 'the international community'.

The countries those three have independently pissed off, however, come rather strikingly close to such. I've said before that the US needs only the tiniest shred of a fuck to turn Taiwan into a total disaster for the CCP because nearly the entire rest of Asia would gladly line up to be the boots on the ground.

Iran's got the Sunni/Shi'ite mess and all the places the Saudis have by the oil perfectly well able to form a proper coalition to oppose them, should they actually get it in their heads to be openly aggressive about it. And the region knows this well, it's why they're still a pileup of insurgencies.

As for Russia? For all it's still a rump state compared to the USSR at the moment, it frankly remains the primary target of NATO for political reasons, and Eastern Europe are going to be the battleground questioning which side to go with, and it as of yet could still go either way. Especially with the trade shenanigans going around.

Then we have China shitting up African countries with shameless neocolonial resource extraction ops and Africa's own occasions of Muslim intercine conflict that'd be prone to making a mess for this theoretical coalition of "The Prime Evils".

 

[paulobrito]

Plenty of non submissive allies would join in against both kf those nations ESPECIALLY China.

Oh? show me one, please. Because the US doesn't have any. Is the US and his vassals, the US doesn't have non-submissive (aka vassals) allies.
Maybe is difficult for you to understand/admit that, but is the world as it is.

 

[paulobrito]

The countries those three have independently pissed off, however, come rather strikingly close to such. I've said before that the US needs only the tiniest shred of a fuck to turn Taiwan into a total disaster for the CCP because nearly the entire rest of Asia would gladly line up to be the boots on the ground.

Iran's got the Sunni/Shi'ite mess and all the places the Saudis have by the oil perfectly well able to form a proper coalition to oppose them, should they actually get it in their heads to be openly aggressive about it. And the region knows this well, it's why they're still a pileup of insurgencies.

As for Russia? For all it's still a rump state compared to the USSR at the moment, it frankly remains the primary target of NATO for political reasons, and Eastern Europe are going to be the battleground questioning which side to go with, and it as of yet could still go either way. Especially with the trade shenanigans going around.

Then we have China shitting up African countries with shameless neocolonial resource extraction ops and Africa's own occasions of Muslim intercine conflict that'd be prone to making a mess for this theoretical coalition of "The Prime Evils".

Gee, try to see the world outside of the american poropaganda, can you?

 

[Morphic Tide]

Oh? show me one, please. Because the US doesn't have any. Is the US and his vassals, the US doesn't have non-submissive (aka vassals) allies.

A much more accurate term, to my understanding, is "protectorate", as that's what the even the most brow-beaten of US associates amount to. Vassalization implies a much more exploitative relationship than the US's odd trade networking, since in most respects the US is actually the worst hit by the whole endeavor.

It's why we're pulling out of it, all we get is lower prices on finished goods, compared to a vassalizing empire we're importing vanishingly little and exporting a vast sum of fundamentals. We basically take over foreign policy, but have very little fucks to give about domestic policy. Hence China's trade status, we primarily just wanted them to fully split from the USSR.

Gee, try to see the world outside of the american poropaganda, can you?

Have you any citation on Japan, India, Taiwan, Vietnam, South Korea, Indonesia, Thailand, and the various other Asian countries being on good terms with China in any meaningful numbers? To my understanding, the region is in fact generally quite hostile to the CCP, even if they've managed some economic inroads.

Have you any citation on the Sunni/Shi'ite shitshow that is literally the primary dividing line of the Middle Eastern power blocks somehow ceasing to be a driving force, or that things are remotely amenable to Iran engaging in conventional warfare rather than just continuing with the insurgency pileup?

Have you any citation that Africa would have any kind of enthusiastic welcome for China or Iran given the reasons specified, or are you just on a kick of "America Bad" or "New Axis Ascendant"?

Because the world has a long history of conflicts that China and Iran continue dealing with today largely outside the European context. I do believe that Asia's centuries of interweaving hatred have yet to vanish in a puff of modernity, and we do in fact have actual small-scale warfare today over the Sunni/Shi'ite issue.

 

[paulobrito]

SK knows that if a serious war starts in the Pacific they are fucked - the capital is on arty / rocket range of NK and a lot of the population industry is concentrated there. So, they don't want a war.
EU, now that the UK is out, is less and less interested in opposing Russia. Outside of Poland, that as always, as delusions of grandeur.

The rest sure, don't like China and/or Russia, but also don't want to be 'mandated' by the crazies / corrupts in Washington.

So, no, not many people are interested in a war, most are interested in maintaining the status quo.

 

[Morphic Tide]

SK knows that if a serious war starts in the Pacific they are fucked - the capital is on arty / rocket range of NK and a lot of the population industry is concentrated there. So, they don't want a war.

But if the war is very obviously inevitable as with China deciding it's finally time to invade Taiwan, it's vastly better to pitch in early to cut down on the totality of damage. Heavily damage now versus conquered or browbeaten into actual vassalhood later is the choice being made, there.

EU, now that the UK is out, is less and less interested in opposing Russia.

What the hell ambitions does Russia have that would not very quickly see the EU reverse course on this? No, seriously, where the fuck does Russia have to expand that is not immediately pressing up to the EU proper? Last I checked, Poland was officially an EU country, Brussels and Paris are not going to tolerate Russia carving chunks out of the EU.

So, no, not many people are interested in a war, most are interested in maintaining the status quo.

Which is the US's trade network, entirely apart from the foreign policy shenanigans orchestrated through this. It is in fact China's driving strategic development at the moment to try and construct an alternative via the "Belt and Road" initiative, so that this can be worked around to allow them much more ability to make headway by actually being able to keep as much of business-as-usual as possible once the US finishes concluding China should be told to fuck off.

 

[paulobrito]

Japan under Abe is an American stooge. Africa prefers (reluctantly, granted) china to the US and friends - already suffered decades of that. The Middle East is a no-win place for everybody - a clusterfuck of the worst kind.
Many of the others don't like China, granted, but also want a counter-point to the exploitative people/politicos/corporations in the US. The few decades with only a superpower show everybody that is a very bad time, as the US used and abused that. A multipolar world is much better than a unipolar one.

 

[Zachowon]

South Korea is more then prepared for a war against NK, and even Chins.
It's capital bring in Arty range is accounted for.

Russia would want its land back, and Poland will have none if it, so the EU will stand there at least.

India and China have been warring for a LONG time and India would not let China run unopposed. Neither will damn near every country around them.

Iran is in an areas that is always a shitstorm

 

[Zachowon]

Dude, try to learn a bit of history, and not only the parts one side write. In the end, you understand that all nations fuck with their neighbors if they think they can.

I was in Korea....
I can tell you how everything is.

I know how the war between the north and south would play out.

It is nit a war the north wants.