Religion Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, Yahweh?

[ATP]

Ok, so you deny that God spoke through the prophets of the Old Testament and reject the Nicene Creed and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Got it.

If you want to talk about reality, the reality is that the New Testament identifies Jesus as God in multiple places. If you believe that all of Scripture is theopneustos, "God-breathed", and is thus the sole infallible rule of faith for believers, then the inescapable conclusion is that Jesus is God. Not only God, but the God of the Old Testament, who is Yahweh.

The popes have been antichrist probably since after Gregory the Great.



Umm, what? I've literally never heard that Solomon's kingdom stretched from the Euphrates river to Egypt. Do you have a Biblical reference in mind?

1.?????? Poor soul,when i rejected anything except sola scriptura? God spoke throught prophets,but they do not always listen well.Otherwise,we would still belive in World created in 6 days.

2.Interesting heresy,and new one.Jesus is Yahwe? even Luder not say that.But,protestants have 40.000 sects or so,you must belong to some recently made.
And,till now,i still could deliver 10 citation where Jesus is human only to 1 where HE maybe is GOD.

3.Bullshit.Antichrist would come at the end of Time,so popes who lived before our times could not be ones,no matter how bad they were.Of course,current pope could be antichrist only IF we live at the End of Times.We would see in few years.

4.Ask jews who belive in Great Izrael.According to them,Salomon created such Empire.

And now,we start another Paul.Here :


Galatians 1:1-5


1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2 and all the brothers and sisters[a] with me,
To the churches in Galatia:

3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Again,God is God and Father,Jesus is Lord and Messiah.Another point for me.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Umm, what? I've literally never heard that Solomon's kingdom stretched from the Euphrates river to Egypt. Do you have a Biblical reference in mind?

I'm guessing he's misinterpreting 1 Kings 4. Solomon was paid tribute by every Kingdom from the Euphrates to the Philistines who were next to Egypt, all the peoples David won wars against and forced into unfavorable treaties. He wasn't actually directly administering those lands himself.

 

[Stargazer]

1.?????? Poor soul,when i rejected anything except sola scriptura? God spoke throught prophets,but they do not always listen well.Otherwise,we would still belive in World created in 6 days.

2.Interesting heresy,and new one.Jesus is Yahwe? even Luder not say that.But,protestants have 40.000 sects or so,you must belong to some recently made.
And,till now,i still could deliver 10 citation where Jesus is human only to 1 where HE maybe is GOD.

3.Bullshit.Antichrist would come at the end of Time,so popes who lived before our times could not be ones,no matter how bad they were.Of course,current pope could be antichrist only IF we live at the End of Times.We would see in few years.

4.Ask jews who belive in Great Izrael.According to them,Salomon created such Empire.

Again,God is God and Father,Jesus is Lord and Messiah.Another point for me.

God spoke through the prophets, it's not about their ability to listen. Learn what words mean. God spoke through the prophets, and God never speaks something false, therefore what God spoke through the prophets must be true.

It's what Christians have believed from the start, what the Nicene Creed and the Catechism of the Catholic Church affirms. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, who is Yahweh. You don't know who Yahweh is, and you don't know who Jesus is.

We are in the last days, so it's to be expected that there would be antichrists. All the popes for at least a thousand years have been antichrist.

I don't care what Jews think, we're talking about what is recorded in the Bible.

No one cares about your "points".

 

[ATP]

I'm guessing he's misinterpreting 1 Kings 4. Solomon was paid tribute by every Kingdom from the Euphrates to the Philistines who were next to Egypt, all the peoples David won wars against and forced into unfavorable treaties. He wasn't actually directly administering those lands himself.

For jews who want Great Izrael it is Empire.And,if it was true,Assyrians ,Babilonians and Egyptians would must be beaten,too.
If that happened,we would see evidence in archeology - and archives of Assyria and other kingdoms.
They,of course would lie that they win - but wars with Salomon would be mentioned.

Here,another Paul:


Galatians 1:9-10


9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Here,God is God,and Jesus is Messiach.Again.

 

[ATP]

God spoke through the prophets, it's not about their ability to listen. Learn what words mean. God spoke through the prophets, and God never speaks something false, therefore what God spoke through the prophets must be true.

It's what Christians have believed from the start, what the Nicene Creed and the Catechism of the Catholic Church affirms. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, who is Yahweh. You don't know who Yahweh is, and you don't know who Jesus is.

We are in the last days, so it's to be expected that there would be antichrists. All the popes for at least a thousand years have been antichrist.

I don't care what Jews think, we're talking about what is recorded in the Bible.

No one cares about your "points".

1.When prophets say that world was created in 6 days,or that Salomon created powerpuff Empire,too?

2.Nicene Creed and catholic catechism say that Jesus is Jahwe? Interesting heresy.Which sect invented it?

3.We would be at last days,when antichrist start working and rule over us for 2 years,killing anybody who do not take sign of a beast.
We are not there yet.According considering what i see,it could happen in few years.

4.You should.Jews made old Testament,after all.And most of New.

5.You want to check if Bible alone could say that Jesus is God.I made protestant work and checked so far 4 books of NT using your sola scriptura.
And,so far ,Bible show Jesus as Messiah ,Lord and son of God - but not God HIMSELF.
Of course,i belive that HE is GOD - but,just like you,thanks to Tradition,not Bible.

Here,another:


Galatians 1:11-16

Paul Called by God
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14 I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.

Here,God is God,and Jesus is Messiah,son of God,and created church.

 

[Stargazer]

1.When prophets say that world was created in 6 days,or that Salomon created powerpuff Empire,too?

Are those things that God spoke?

2.Nicene Creed and catholic catechism say that Jesus is Jahwe? Interesting heresy.Which sect invented it?

Jesus and his apostles did.

3.We would be at last days,when antichrist start working and rule over us for 2 years,killing anybody who do not take sign of a beast.
We are not there yet.According considering what i see,it could happen in few years

.

We are already in the last days, and there are already antichrists among us.

4.You should.Jews made old Testament,after all.And most of New.

God spoke through the prophets and the apostles in the writing of the Old and New Testaments. I don't care what Jews say outside of that.

5.You want to check if Bible alone could say that Jesus is God.I made protestant work and checked so far 4 books of NT using your sola scriptura.
And,so far ,Bible show Jesus as Messiah ,Lord and son of God - but not God HIMSELF

Your "checking" is unnecessary. We've already shown you where the New Testament identifies Jesus as God. All Scripture, New Testament and Old, is God-breathed, spoken out by God. If God spoke it just once, it would be true.

Are you calling God a liar?

 

[ATP]

Are those things that God spoke?



Jesus and his apostles did.

.

We are already in the last days, and there are already antichrists among us.


God spoke through the prophets and the apostles in the writing of the Old and New Testaments. I don't care what Jews say outside of that.



Your "checking" is unnecessary. We've already shown you where the New Testament identifies Jesus as God. All Scripture, New Testament and Old, is God-breathed, spoken out by God. If God spoke it just once, it would be true.

Are you calling God a liar?

1.No,what prophets wrote.

2.Jesus said that HE is Jahwe? When?

3.I read memories from WW2 - people belived the same.Yet those who survived died from old age.

4.Those prophets and Apostles were jews,you knew.

5.Yes,in 2 places from faked Paul letters.All real Paul so far show Jesus as human,or at best could suggest that HE is God.
And if you said that God spoken through NT,then HE spoken that Jesus is human so far.

Here,another Paul:


Galatians 1:20-24


20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.

21 Then I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22 I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23 They only heard the report: “The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” 24 And they praised God because of me.

Again,God is God,Jesus is Messiah.
You really do not should use your tradition to prove that sola scriptura is working.Becouse it is not working,and never worked - tat why Luder made himself super pope,and later gave that power to all protestant rulers.

 

[Bear Ribs]

For jews who want Great Izrael it is Empire.And,if it was true,Assyrians ,Babilonians and Egyptians would must be beaten,too.
If that happened,we would see evidence in archeology - and archives of Assyria and other kingdoms.
They,of course would lie that they win - but wars with Salomon would be mentioned.

The bible says pretty clearly that Solomon never saw war at all, all the wars were fought by David. Solomon was privileged to build the temple specifically because God wanted a man of peace and not war to build it. So of course there would be no mention of wars with Solomon, that's exactly what you'd expect from the bible account.

As far as archeological evidence there's plenty. We have evidences of massive mining operations, a spice trade way out of its expected time, and evidence of huge amounts of shipping and trade, all smack dab in the middle of the Bronze Age Collapse when all the local Great Powers were in free fall and couldn't possibly afford them, but those are exactly what the Bible said was going on with Solomon at the time the archeology matches.

 

[Stargazer]

1.No,what prophets wrote.

Where did the prophets write that Solomon made a powerful empire like you've been saying? Do you have any clue what you're referring to?

2.Jesus said that HE is Jahwe? When?

We've shown you where Jesus identified himself as the God of the Old Testament. You tell me, what is the name of the God of the Old Testament?

3.I read memories from WW2 - people belived the same.Yet thosde who survived died from old age.

They were also in the last days, and the Pope was antichrist then too.

4.Those prophets and Apostles were jews,you knew.

I know that. What's your point?

5.Yes,in 2 places from faked Paul letters.All real Paul so far show Jesus as human,or at best could suggest that HE is God.
And if you said that God spoken through NT,then HE spoken that Jesus is human so far.

More places than that, but no one cares if you think anything in the New Testament is fake. That doesn't change what is in the New Testament, and what it teaches.

And sure, the New Testament teaches that Jesus is human, because he is human. Duh.

 

[ATP]

The bible says pretty clearly that Solomon never saw war at all, all the wars were fought by David. Solomon was privileged to build the temple specifically because God wanted a man of peace and not war to build it. So of course there would be no mention of wars with Solomon, that's exactly what you'd expect from the bible account.

As far as archeological evidence there's plenty. We have evidences of massive mining operations, a spice trade way out of its expected time, and evidence of huge amounts of shipping and trade, all smack dab in the middle of the Bronze Age Collapse when all the local Great Powers were in free fall and couldn't possibly afford them, but those are exactly what the Bible said was going on with Solomon at the time the archeology matches.

1.Then all those territories would be conqered by David.And Assyrians,Babilonians and Egyptians would mention if not him,then at least his Kingdom.Of course lying,how they beat him - but Izrael would be mentioned.

2.Mining operations which could be made by anybody.The same goes for trade.You must prove,that it was made by Izrael Kingdom.Which capitol was Jerusalem with maybe 2.000 inhabitants in this times.

Here,another Paul:


Galatians 1:20-24


20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.

21 Then I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22 I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23 They only heard the report: “The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” 24 And they praised God because of me.

Again,God is God,and Jesus is Messiah,not God.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Again,God is God,and Jesus is Messiah,not God.

I'm pretty sure that makes you Islamic or Jewish.
Never mind. That disqualifies you from pretty much every Christian, Jewish AND Islamic sect.

 

[ATP]

Where did the prophets write that Solomon made a powerful empire like you've been saying? Do you have any clue what you're referring to?



We've shown you where Jesus identified himself as the God of the Old Testament. You tell me, what is the name of the God of the Old Testament?



They were also in the last days, and the Pope was antichrist then too.



I know that. What's your point?


More places than that, but no one cares if you think anything in the New Testament is fake. That doesn't change what is in the New Testament, and what it teaches.

And sure, the New Testament teaches that Jesus is human, because he is human. Duh.

1.Well,books about Salomon was written before prophets.So - scribes?

2.Jesus said "I am Jahwe" ? Where?

3.If they died from old age,then they do not lived in last days.Just like we would live in last days only if we would live when Jesus come back.

4.That jews knew better then you or me what jewsish traditions were.

5.Not no one,but you.But,maybe you are no one?
And New Testament teched that God is God almost every time God is mentioned.They would do the same with Jesus,if they thought so.
Peter to not fear death when he teached in Temple,nor Paul when he was imprisoned.Yet both teached about Jesus as Messiah,not God.

Here,another Paul:


Galatians 2:4-6


4 This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. 5 We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.

6 As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message.

Again,God is God,Jesus is Messiah.

 

[ATP]

I'm pretty sure that makes you Islamic or Jewish.
Never mind. That disqualifies you from pretty much every Christian, Jewish AND Islamic sect.

Nope,my friend.You do not read my posts.I belive that Jesus is God and part of Trynity - but,just like everybody else,i take that knowledge from my Church Tradition,not Bible.

That is why i use protestant method sola scriptura to check what New Testament said about Jesus - so far,HE ,according to NT,is human,not God.

Here,another Paul for ya:


Galatians 2:16-21


16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[a] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”[b]

Again,God is God,Jesus is Messiah and son of God.Just like we are God children.

 

[Bear Ribs]

1.Then all those territories would be conqered by David.And Assyrians,Babilonians and Egyptians would mention if not him,then at least his Kingdom.Of course lying,how they beat him - but Izrael would be mentioned.

And we have some evidence. F'rex the Battle Relief of Pharoah Shoshenq I mentions his battle in the "Highlands of David." According to him, he won everything, of course, and then just... didn't feel like actually ruling his newly conquered lands, and went home for a cold drink I guess.

2.Mining operations which could be made by anybody.The same goes for trade.You must prove,that it was made by Izrael Kingdom.Which capitol was Jerusalem with maybe 2.000 inhabitants in this times.

You want me to prove that mines in the Timna Valley in Israel dated to the 10th century BC were... in Israel? And that the archeological discovery of traces of spices found in Israeli ruins and trade hubs on Israel's shores were from Israel?

Tell me, if we found a pyramid in the middle of Ancient Egypt's territory, where several-thousand-year-old Egyptian documents said Pharoah had it built, would you insist just anybody could have built it and there was no proof the Egyptians were associated with that pyramid?

 

[Stargazer]

1.Well,books about Salomon was written before prophets.So - scribes?

So that's a no, you don't actually have a clue what you're talking about.

2.Jesus said "I am Jahwe" ? Where?

Not what I said. I asked if you know the name of the God of the Old Testament. You seem incapable of the most basic logical reasoning.

3.If they died from old age,then they do not lived in last days.Just like we would live in last days only if we would live when Jesus come back.

Actually they still were in the last times, that's not the standard for what the last times are. And the popes are still antichrists.

4.That jews knew better then you or me what jewsish traditions were.

And I don't really care about what Jewish traditions were, outside of what was preserved in Scripture. You seem to be calling the Old Testament "fairy tales" based on stuff that you can't even show is in the Old Testament. Completely invalid reasons.

Nope,my friend.You do not read my posts.I belive that Jesus is God and part of Trynity - but,just like everybody else,i take that knowledge from my Church Tradition,not Bible.

That is why i use protestant method sola scriptura to check what New Testament said about Jesus - so far,HE ,according to NT,is human,not God.

You have no clue what Sola Scriptura means. It's willful ignorance, as it's been pointed out to you what it actually means but you just ignore it. You ignore a lot of what is said to you, you live in your own world where you just say things with no connection to reality. You don't know Jesus, you don't know Yahweh, you have no clue what you believe, you aren't a follower of Jesus.

 

[ATP]

And we have some evidence. F'rex the Battle Relief of Pharoah Shoshenq I mentions his battle in the "Highlands of David." According to him, he won everything, of course, and then just... didn't feel like actually ruling his newly conquered lands, and went home for a cold drink I guess.

You want me to prove that mines in the Timna Valley in Israel dated to the 10th century BC were... in Israel? And that the archeological discovery of traces of spices found in Israeli ruins and trade hubs on Israel's shores were from Israel?

Tell me, if we found a pyramid in the middle of Ancient Egypt's territory, where several-thousand-year-old Egyptian documents said Pharoah had it built, would you insist just anybody could have built it and there was no proof the Egyptians were associated with that pyramid?

1.You need that kind of texts from Egypt,Assyria and Babilon for supposed Dawid and Salomon rule.

2.No,that Kingdom of Izrael controlled them.Becouse ,if they were that powerpuff,Jerusalem would have more then 2000 inhabitants.
The same for trade hubs.

Here,another Paul:
Galatians 3,3-7

Faith or Works of the Law


3 You foolishv Galatians!w Who has bewitched you?x Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.y 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spiritz by the works of the law,a or by believing what you heard?b 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?a 4 Have you experiencedb so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miraclesc among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?d 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”c e


7 Understand, then, that those who have faithf are children of Abraham.g 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”d h



Again,God is God,Jesus is Messiah.

 

[ATP]

So that's a no, you don't actually have a clue what you're talking about.



Not what I said. I asked if you know the name of the God of the Old Testament. You seem incapable of the most basic logical reasoning.



Actually they still were in the last times, that's not the standard for what the last times are. And the popes are still antichrists.



And I don't really care about what Jewish traditions were, outside of what was preserved in Scripture. You seem to be calling the Old Testament "fairy tales" based on stuff that you can't even show is in the Old Testament. Completely invalid reasons.





You have no clue what Sola Scriptura means. It's willful ignorance, as it's been pointed out to you what it actually means but you just ignore it. You ignore a lot of what is said to you, you live in your own world where you just say things with no connection to reality. You don't know Jesus, you don't know Yahweh, you have no clue what you believe, you aren't a follower of Jesus.

1.If you feel better...

2.Then when Jesus said "I am God" ? he implied that,but never say openly.And even fake Paul do not name him as Jahwe,but God.

3.Of course it is standart.Last times would be when Antichrist would rule entire Earth.It not happened yet.And,i am sure that current pope would not rule anything then,so he is not Antichrist,too.
Just like previous popes could not be Antichrist,too.

4.I could if i cared.But,jews beliv in that,so ask them.

5.Sola scripture mean writing only,my uneducated friend.And that is what i am doing for ya - checking what Apostles written about Jesus.So far,if ihave only Paul letters,i would belived that HE is Messiah and nothing more.

When you take your knowledge about Jesus being not only God but also Jahwe from tradition of your rare sect.

 

[Stargazer]

2.Then when Jesus said "I am God" ? he implied that,but never say openly.And even fake Paul do not name him as Jahwe,but God.

When I say "The God of the Old Testament", do you know the name of the being I am referring to? Are you capable of even comprehending the question of the thread topic?

3.Of course it is standart.Last times would be when Antichrist would rule entire Earth.It not happened yet.And,i am sure that current pope would not rule anything then,so he is not Antichrist,too.
Just like previous popes could not be Antichrist,too

No, the last times aren't when "antichrists rule the entire earth". We are in the last times.

5.Sola scripture mean writing only,my uneducated friend.And that is what i am doing for ya - checking what Apostles written about Jesus.So far,if ihave only Paul letters,i would belived that HE is Messiah and nothing more.

When you take your knowledge about Jesus being not only God but also Jahwe from tradition of your rare sect.

That is what the words literally mean, but that isn't what the actual doctrine of "sola scriptura" fully means. You refuse to listen to what it actually means.

I haven't cited a single "tradition of my sect". I've only cited the Bible, Old and New Testament.

 

[Bear Ribs]

1.You need that kind of texts from Egypt,Assyria and Babilon for supposed Dawid and Salomon rule.

2.No,that Kingdom of Izrael controlled them.Becouse ,if they were that powerpuff,Jerusalem would have more then 2000 inhabitants.
The same for trade hubs.

Hmm, well going by your logic, if any Kingdom besides Israel controlled them, you need texts from them saying they controlled those mines, spice trades into Israel, and harbors. Do you have any such texts from Egypt, Assyria, or Babylon?

 

[stephen the barbarian]

2.Then when Jesus said "I am God" ? he implied that,but never say openly.And even fake Paul do not name him as Jahwe,but God.

John 11:25 "Jesus said unto her, I Am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"

note the use of "I Am" i.e. Ego eimi. this echos Exodus 3:14 where God introduces himself to Moses as " I Am that I Am"

And I don't really care about what Jewish traditions were, outside of what was preserved in Scripture.

i find them very useful for establishing context and in doing so increasing my own understanding