Religion Does the New Testament teach that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, Yahweh?

[ATP]

When I say ok. I mean not prohibited. If God does not prohibit something then it is ok to do. God gave rules, he said what you can eat and what you can't eat. The type of people you are allowed to marry, and the type it is forbidden to marry. He was very exact in his commandments, I don't believe God made a mistake and "forgot" to put in a restriction on something this important.

If God was this exact with everything else on what you can't do, but is silent on this other thing. The other thing is probably acceptable.

True.Old Testament have many rules,if it was forbiden to have many wives it would be said so.

Here,another

2 Corinthians 4:3-6


3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,”[a] made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.

Jesus is Christ/Messiah/ and image of God,but not God.

 

[ATP]

By first-century Roman standards, yes having two wives would look very bad. Paul's point that church leaders should be people free from scandal.

Not ordinary dudes.
Here,another:

2 Corinthians 4:14-16

14 because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15 All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.

Here,God is God - and Jesus is Lord raised by God,not God.

 

[ATP]

Funny, I don't need people in robes and funny hats to tell me that being indwelled by the Holy Spirit is not the same as Pantheism.



And here we have a classic case of the text saying one thing, and people like you seeing something totally different there, because you have been taught to see it there.
No, Paul does not say that the bread they were eating was Jesus' body. Look at the actual words.

Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

It's not the food they are eating that is Jesus' body - it's the people who are eating it. Paul teaches this consistently - believers are Christ's body, His visible presence on Earth.

1.Easy,dude.And i knew that it is Holy Spirit - but not thanks to Paul letter.Just like you.Only your pastors do not have funny hats

2.Text is saing that cup is with blood of Jesus,and bread is his body.Unless you read something else.Butprotestants really do not see what they do not want to see in NT,so it is possible.

Here,another:

2 Corinthians 5:5-10


5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Here,God is God,but also named Lord.
Jesus is Christ/Messiah/ who would judge us.

So,you could try to imply that Jesus is God.Have a 0,5 point.

 

[ATP]

We've shown you already dude.

2 places from fake Paul Letters,where Jesus was named as God.I showed you more then 50 from real Paul when He is Messiah or son of God.And few who could imply /or not/ that Jesus is God,but not say that.

Here,another:



2 Corinthians 5:13-20

13 If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[a] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

Here,again,God is God,and Jesus is Christ/Messiah/ who died and was raised by God - but is not God HIMSELF.

 

[Stargazer]

2 places from fake Paul Letters,where Jesus was named as God.I showed you more then 50 from real Paul when He is Messiah or son of God.And few who could imply /or not/ that Jesus is God,but not say that.

Do you not believe that Jesus is the Messiah or the Son of God?

 

[Scottty]

I think this illustrates the point that for some people - if it's something they very much want to believe is taught in the Bible, just one out-of-context verse will do. But if it's something they don't want to accept as in the Bible, no amount of quotations will do.

 

[ATP]

The Nicene Creed says God spoke through the prophets. If you think they made mistakes, then you think God makes mistakes. I thought you believed the Nicene Creed? Is that what your "faith" is in?

You've never called me a human, you must think I'm an alien or something. Stop thinking I'm an alien, it's idiotic.

1.Poor soul,you mistaken us with muslims.For them Koran come from Heaven unchanged,so it is worlds of Allah.
Not for catholics.God enlingtened prophets,but they were still humans.
Hence writing about powerpuff Salomon empire,which in reality was small unimprtant state.Not problem for us.
God was not mistaken - mistaken was authors who turned small state into Empire.

2.????????? But you are naming yourself as human.When Jesus never openly named HIMSELF as God.
I knew that HE is GOD - but thanks to Tradition,not Bible.
Just like Luder and other protestants - you deny Tradition,yet still recognize Jesus as God and part of Trinity,when after reading new Testament all we see is Messiah.

Here,another :


2 Corinthians 7:6

6 But God, who comforts the downcast, comforted us by the coming of Titus,

Here - Paul name God as God.If He belived that Jesus is God,he would name HIM as GOD,too.

 

[ATP]

At this point, if @ATP claimed that the Bible says the sky is blue, I would look it up and check.

No need,just read NT.And check how many times Jesus named Himself as God.Number is zero.
Paul in his letters so far do that once,all other are Jesus being Messiah,or at best suggesting that HE is GOD.

Here,another:


2 Corinthi

The Collection for the Lord’s People
8 And now, brothers and sisters, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. 2 In the midst of a very severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. 3 For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, 4 they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the Lord’s people. 5 And they exceeded our expectations: They gave themselves first of all to the Lord, and then by the will of God also to us. 6 So we urged Titus, just as he had earlier made a beginning, to bring also to completion this act of grace on your part. 7 But since you excel in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in the love we have kindled in you[a]—see that you also excel in this grace of giving.

8 I am not commanding you, but I want to test the sincerity of your love by comparing it with the earnestness of others. 9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.

Here,God is God,and Jesus is Lord.Paul could name HIM as GOD - but,failed to do so.

 

[Scottty]

@ATP you have already admitted that there are statements in the New Testament that clearly teach Jesus' Deity. Unless you think your own denomination is wrong in what they tell you it means?

 

[ATP]

And if the Bible did say that the sky is blue, ATP would claim that scholars had proven it was really green, but he believes it to be purple, because Tradition.

Nope,my uneducated friend,i simply check what NT is saing about Jesus.And if it call HIM GOD,or Messiah.


2 Corinthians 9:12-14

12 This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of the Lord’s people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. 13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 14 And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you.

Here,God is God,Jesus is Christ/Messiah/

 

[Stargazer]

1.Poor soul,you mistaken us with muslims.For them Koran come from Heaven unchanged,so it is worlds of Allah.
Not for catholics.God enlingtened prophets,but they were still humans.
Hence writing about powerpuff Salomon empire,which in reality was small unimprtant state.Not problem for us.
God was not mistaken - mistaken was authors who turned small state into Empire.

2.????????? But you are naming yourself as human.When Jesus never openly named HIMSELF as God.
I knew that HE is GOD - but thanks to Tradition,not Bible.
Just like Luder and other protestants - you deny Tradition,yet still recognize Jesus as God and part of Trinity,when after reading new Testament all we see is Messiah.

"Beep boop, we're not Muslims, beep boop".

I don't care about Muslims. I'm talking about what the Nicene Creed says. You know, the very same Nicene Creed that you've referred to as your tradition. This is what it says:

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

The Holy Spirit spoke through the prophets. He didn't "enlighten" the prophets, that is NOT what your tradition teaches. He spoke through the Prophets.

Do you believe that, yes or no?

And if you believe that, do you believe God can ever speak something that is untrue or a mistake?

Jesus did identify himself as God. We've clearly demonstrated that.

Oh, and it's Luther. Martin Luther. We're speaking English here, he's called Luther in English, and also called Luther in German.

Calling Jesus Messiah is not contradictory of him being God. We believe him to be both, don't we?

 

[ATP]

Do you not believe that Jesus is the Messiah or the Son of God?

I belive that,just like other catholics.Jews waited for human Messiah who would kick roman asses and gave them Empire.And He could be son of God,too - but NOT GOD

Here,another:

Second Corinthians 10,1-5

Paul’s Defense of His Ministry
10 By the humility and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am “timid” when face to face with you, but “bold” toward you when away! 2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Again - God is God,Jesus is Christ/Messiah/

 

[ATP]

I think this illustrates the point that for some people - if it's something they very much want to believe is taught in the Bible, just one out-of-context verse will do. But if it's something they don't want to accept as in the Bible, no amount of quotations will do.

Just like you,when you negate Bible when it told about giving keys to Peter,but insisting that it told that Jesus is God and part of Trinity - when all we could see at best are suggestion.

Here,another:


2 Corinthians 10:7-9

7 You are judging by appearances.[a] If anyone is confident that they belong to Christ, they should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as they do. 8 So even if I boast somewhat freely about the authority the Lord gave us for building you up rather than tearing you down, I will not be ashamed of it. 9 I do not want to seem to be trying to frighten you with my letters.

Jesus again is Christ/Messiah/,not God.

 

[ATP]

Do you not believe that Jesus is the Messiah or the Son of God?

I belive that,just like other catholics.Jews waited for human Messiah who would kick roman asses and gave them Empire.And He could be son of God,too - but NOT GOD

@ATP you have already admitted that there are statements in the New Testament that clearly teach Jesus' Deity. Unless you think your own denomination is wrong in what they tell you it means?

2 in fake Paul letters.When all others,including Peter speech after Holy Spirit enlinghtened him and Paul when he was prisoner,show Jesus as Messiah.
They could say that Jesus is God - but they did not.

Here,another.


2 Corinthians 10:13-14


13 We, however, will not boast beyond proper limits, but will confine our boasting to the sphere of service God himself has assigned to us, a sphere that also includes you. 14 We are not going too far in our boasting, as would be the case if we had not come to you, for we did get as far as you with the gospel of Christ.

Here,again,God is God,and Jesus is Christ/Messiah/

 

[ATP]

"Beep boop, we're not Muslims, beep boop".

I don't care about Muslims. I'm talking about what the Nicene Creed says. You know, the very same Nicene Creed that you've referred to as your tradition. This is what it says:

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

The Holy Spirit spoke through the prophets. He didn't "enlighten" the prophets, that is NOT what your tradition teaches. He spoke through the Prophets.

Do you believe that, yes or no?

And if you believe that, do you believe God can ever speak something that is untrue or a mistake?

Jesus did identify himself as God. We've clearly demonstrated that.

Oh, and it's Luther. Martin Luther. We're speaking English here, he's called Luther in English, and also called Luther in German.

Calling Jesus Messiah is not contradictory of him being God. We believe him to be both, don't we?

Beep Boop,good argument.
You care about muslims,if you belive that we are them.
And yes,speak through prophets.Who stil could turn small kingdoms into powerpuff Empire which never existed.Becouse they were humans.

Martin Luder - he was born with it name,changed it to Luther - but why should i care? In my book somebody who was born as Luder was Luder.Even if he change name into Kwiatkowski.

Black fake bandit as argument - charming.You are funny.

We belive in both.So we say so.
Jews do not belived so,and waited for human warrior who gave them powah.
Even they found fake Messiach during their lost uprising against romans.Ben akiba or something.

If Paul or Peter wanted to said that Jesus is both God and Messiah,they would say so.But they did not.

Here,another:


2 Corinthians 11:2-4

2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Here,Jesus is Christ/Messiah/ again.Not God.Paul could name HIM as GOD if he wonted,but failed to do so.

 

[Scottty]

2 in fake Paul letters.

Whether you - in contrast to the people who decided the NT canon, and centuries of Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant and Baptist believers - consider those letters to be by Paul or not, they are in the New Testament.

 

[ATP]

Whether you - in contrast to the people who decided the NT canon, and centuries of Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant and Baptist believers - consider those letters to be by Paul or not, they are in the New Testament.

Not me.Scholars,who compared style of his letters to fakes.
Here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjfyYOus774AhWH-ioKHQAUBmEQFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2Fbiography%2FSaint-Paul-the-Apostle&usg=AOvVaw0L95D7pbBW2cR5Yz9zcmEZ

Still in New Testament - but writen between 90-130AD.

Here,another:


2 Corinthians 11:10-13

10 As the truth of Christ is in me, this boasting of mine will not be silenced in the regions of Achaia. 11 And why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do!

12 And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

Again,God is God,and Jesus is Christ/Messiah/,not God.

 

[Stargazer]

Beep Boop,good argument.
You care about muslims,if you belive that we are them.
And yes,speak through prophets.Who stil could turn small kingdoms into powerpuff Empire which never existed.Becouse they were humans.

Martin Luder - he was born with it name,changed it to Luther - but why should i care? In my book somebody who was born as Luder was Luder.Even if he change name into Kwiatkowski.

Black fake bandit as argument - charming.You are funny.

We belive in both.So we say so.
Jews do not belived so,and waited for human warrior who gave them powah.
Even they found fake Messiach during their lost uprising against romans.Ben akiba or something.

If Paul or Peter wanted to said that Jesus is both God and Messiah,they would say so.But they did not.

You believe there is only one God, right? So do Muslims. Are you a Muslim?

Ok, I guess you do think God can speak things that are mistakes or untrue. Great, I disagree.

Why haven't you been referring to Paul as Saul? That was the name he originally went by.

If you believe both, what is the point of pointing out every time Jesus is referred to as the Messiah? Clearly that doesn't mean he isn't God, since you're able to believe both are true. And there are clear examples of Jesus being identified as God in the New Testament, as we've showed.

You could have named me as human every time you've talked to me, but you haven't. By your logic you must not think I'm human. Actually, you must not think anyone in this thread is human.

2 in fake Paul letters.

Actually, in many of Paul's letters, Peter's letters, Hebrews, the Gospels, and Revelation. No one cares if you think some of them are fakes, that doesn't change whether or not they are in the New Testament. The question is if the New Testament teaches that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.

No one cares if you think they are fakes.

Read that again: No one cares if you think they are fakes.

 

[ATP]

You believe there is only one God, right? So do Muslims. Are you a Muslim?

Ok, I guess you do think God can speak things that are mistakes or untrue. Great, I disagree.

Why haven't you been referring to Paul as Saul? That was the name he originally went by.

If you believe both, what is the point of pointing out every time Jesus is referred to as the Messiah? Clearly that doesn't mean he isn't God, since you're able to believe both are true. And there are clear examples of Jesus being identified as God in the New Testament, as we've showed.

You could have named me as human every time you've talked to me, but you haven't. By your logic you must not think I'm human. Actually, you must not think anyone in this thread is human.



Actually, in many of Paul's letters, Peter's letters, Hebrews, the Gospels, and Revelation. No one cares if you think some of them are fakes, that doesn't change whether or not they are in the New Testament. The question is if the New Testament teaches that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.

No one cares if you think they are fakes.

Read that again: No one cares if you think they are fakes.

1.Muslims belived that Koran was dictated by Allah.We do not belive that Bible was dictated by God - but writen by prophets.
Hence we have creating Earth in 6 days,fictional Salomon Empire,fictional genocide of persian elites - becouse writers could be wrong.

2.Luder changed his name ,and run to abbey becouse he killed in duel.And then destroyed abbeys,becouse he must fuck somebody so he thought that everybody must.
He never changed.
Saul killed christians,Paul helped them and died for Christ.So,he was changed.

3.There are examples - 3 so far was found here,2 in fake letters.Every other time Jesus is human,or at best we could have suggestion that HE is God.

Look at numbers - how many times Jesus is described as Messiah who is human,not God.
Not warrior Messiash for which jews waited,but still human.

4.Almost every time Bible mention God,name HIM as GOD.So,if NT consider Jesus as GOD,HE would be mentioned as such.
Especially when Peter talked in Temple after Holy Spirit come,or Paul before judges.In both cases they described Jesus as human.

5.Actually,in almost all of cases i checked Jesus is described as human.

Here,another:


2 Corinthians 11:31


31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying.

Again,God is God,and Jesus is Lord,not God.Paul could name HIM as such if he wanted,and named GOD as GOD..

And,poor uneducated human - i do not thing,that fakes are fakes.Scholars who knew languages and could check in which style book wrote claim so.
Here,again,especially for you:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjfyYOus774AhWH-ioKHQAUBmEQFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2Fbiography%2FSaint-Paul-the-Apostle&usg=AOvVaw0L95D7pbBW2cR5Yz9zcmEZ

 

[Stargazer]

1.Muslims belived that Koran was dictated by Allah.We do not belive that Bible was dictated by God - but writen by prophets.
Hence we have creating Earth in 6 days,fictional Salomon Empire,fictional genocide of persian elites - becouse writers could be wrong.

We believe that God spoke through the prophets when they wrote the books of the Old Testament. If the writers could be wrong, then God could have been wrong when speaking through them.

2.Luder changed his name ,and run to abbey becouse he killed in duel.And then destroyed abbeys,becouse he must fuck somebody so he thought that everybody must.
He never changed.
Saul killed christians,Paul helped them and died for Christ.So,he was changed.

If you think Martin Luther "never changed" and believe these things about him, you're either willfully ignorant or blatantly disrespectful of him. And you're showing your disrespect by purposefully calling him the wrong name. Got it.

The Pope is antichrist.

3.There are examples - 3 so far was found here,2 in fake letters.Every other time Jesus is human,or at best we could have suggestion that HE is God.

Look at numbers - how many times Jesus is described as Messiah who is human,not God.
Not warrior Messiash for which jews waited,but still human.

Sure. Because Jesus is also human, and he is the Messiah.

4.Almost every time Bible mention God,name HIM as GOD.So,if NT consider Jesus as GOD,HE would be mentioned as such.
Especially when Peter talked in Temple after Holy Spirit come,or Paul before judges.In both cases they described Jesus as human.

He was mentioned as such, in the New Testament. It doesn't have to be every single time, you have to stand on your head to insist that is the standard.

5.Actually,in almost all of cases i checked Jesus is described as human.

Because he is.

And,poor uneducated human - i do not thing,that fakes are fakes.Scholars who knew languages and could check in which style book wrote claim so.
Here,again,especially for you:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjfyYOus774AhWH-ioKHQAUBmEQFnoECA4QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2Fbiography%2FSaint-Paul-the-Apostle&usg=AOvVaw0L95D7pbBW2cR5Yz9zcmEZ

No one cares.