Commentary on the current affairs of The Sietch

[Tyzuris]

Yeah. Imagine the boring lives those people have if they have nothing better to do than to try to attack The Sietch and come up with plans to do it in their seething rage at a thing so small like an internet forum. I guess their lives don't otherwise have that much content when they have to spend their spare time like this.

 

[Realm]

Particularly given Shatten, or whatever he calls himself since joining the trans bandwagon, has been allowing and encouraging attacks on this site and it's members.

In the discord? I havent seen any of that, in fact I've gotten more warnings away from interacting with this place than anything else. Server link is right there if ya wanna check, but I guess conspiracy theories about how under siege you are works too.

I mean, when I got permission to post the link I was also warned that none of yall would actually care about the facts in favour of your victimhood narrative, but I have hope in my fellow man

 

[Bacle]

Yeah. Imagine the boring lives those people have if they have nothing better to do than to try to attack The Sietch and come up with plans to do it in their seething rage at a thing so small like an internet forum. I guess their lives don't otherwise have that much content when they have to spend their spare time like this.

Well we are all 'Alt-Right', or whatever wrongthink monkier they want to stick us with, and that justifies anything in their minds.

And since some of us are banned from SB, they cannot get at us there anymore. Us having our own forum, and having it set up with reasonable rules that cannot be easily manipulated to attack 'wrongthink', cannot be allowed to stand in thier eyes.

In the discord? I havent seen any of that, in fact I've gotten more warnings away from interacting with this place than anything else. Server link is right there if ya wanna check, but I guess conspiracy theories about how under siege you are works too.

I mean, when I got permission to post the link I was also warned that none of yall would actually care about the facts in favour of your victimhood narrative, but I have hope in my fellow man

We have screenshots, we have chat logs, and we know about the attempts to get us shutdown that have been organized by people on there.

But keep acting like we are making it all up; it'll be all the sweeter when we post the evidence.

Also, you couldn't pay me to enter that howler monkey circus, but please tell them Bacle says 'You all know not the powers you provoke.'

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Seeing as the comment went completely unmentioned in the mod post, the idea that you think the comment was punished due to an unrelated issue being addressed is adorable.

So, your problem is they punished him, but did not address the part of his misbehavior you feel is important. But they did in fact punish him.

And why am I always crying, whinging with you? Why can't I be laughing? Why not joyful, full of life and positivity? It's very hurtful to have such negative things attributes to me all the time you know.

Because, in case you weren't aware, your demeanor reads as a desperate affectation of flippancy. I'm not sure what impression you're going for, but thats what it looks like from the outside.

 

[LordSunhawk]

The Boot has entered the fray... and is not pleased.

Do NOT bait other posters into violations of Rule 2, that is in and of itself a Rule 2 violation. Posters who have shown a repeated pattern of ignoring the rules will experience more stringent enforcement of same due to them losing the benefit of the doubt that the Boot and the rest of the staff tries very hard to always give.

Do not make the Boot have to go on a more extensive stepping spree. The Boot prefers not having to do anything at all, but if you mess with the Boot's laces, you get the Boot's treads!

 

[Emperor Tippy]

@Realm is on a seven day vacation from this thread while @Bacle is gone for the day.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Honestly, I think Realm has a point. Not in that whole "persecution complex" thing, because no matter how many times someone tries to downplay it those enemies do exist and they do wish this site ill. But he's right that we shouldn't be constantly bringing it up.

When we set up this site, we could have made a new, private chat site to continue what we had on SB. But we didn't, and I'm glad for that, because the correct response to a bunch of dipshits setting up a secure base to shit talk us was not "oh yeah? Well two can play that game!" We decided to build something new instead, but part of that means becoming part of something new.

The Sietch is not supposed to be a hangout spot for those of us from the VRWC to hang out and chat and also some other people are there. We're supposed to be building a new community, not keeping old one alive and setting up some new community around it.

But that means many of our problems are not the sietch's problems. I have a problem with idiot discord, as do dozens of other posters here. But there are, as of this writing, 528 people here, and most of them probably haven't heard of or care about the mess on SB. Now, since the people idiot discord hates are the staff and founding posters on the Sietch, and because of how and why this forum was founded, that drama will still be a major part of the Sietch's history and influence it's culture, but that doesn't mean we need to bring it up all of them time and act like our bitter enemies are everyone's bitter enemies.

 

[Karmic Acumen]

I am personally more worried about how the Edit function works on this site. Specifically, that quoted posts in other users' posts get edited as well. That reeks of revisionism. At best it's a total disregard to whatever semblance of ownership people have on their posts. At worst, it is a rabbit hole to the hell of automated gaslighting as everyone engaging a post they find objectionable starts to look anywhere from confused to insane the moment the stuff they react to gets edited, depending on the extent of the edit and how objectionable they found it.

Stop edits from editing other people's quotes please. It's the most blatantly, dare I say it, ORWELLIAN feature of this salad bowl. Literally the job of the main character of 1984, only automated and universally imposed.

 

[Greengrass]

I am personally more worried about how the Edit function works on this site. Specifically, that quoted posts in other users' posts get edited as well. That reeks of revisionism. At best it's a total disregard to whatever semblance of ownership people have on their posts. At worst, it is a rabbit hole to the hell of automated gaslighting as everyone engaging a post they find objectionable starts to look anywhere from confused to insane the moment the stuff they react to gets edited, depending on the extent of the edit and how objectionable they found it.

Stop edits from editing other people's quotes please. It's the most blatantly, dare I say it, ORWELLIAN feature of this salad bowl. Literally the job of the main character of 1984, only automated and universally imposed.

I tested this and it didn't copy over, so it looks like that wasn't actually true. We can try to get the answer from the source, though. @Zoe or @Captain-General, was the edit that occurred to my quote of you automatic, or was the quote specifically edited in my post?

 

[Sol Zagato]

We have screenshots, we have chat logs,

As I'd rather not register an account at FiC, mind posting some?

 

[Husky_Khan]

Honestly, I think Realm has a point. Not in that whole "persecution complex" thing, because no matter how many times someone tries to downplay it those enemies do exist and they do wish this site ill. But he's right that we shouldn't be constantly bringing it up.

When we set up this site, we could have made a new, private chat site to continue what we had on SB. But we didn't, and I'm glad for that, because the correct response to a bunch of dipshits setting up a secure base to shit talk us was not "oh yeah? Well two can play that game!" We decided to build something new instead, but part of that means becoming part of something new.

The Sietch is not supposed to be a hangout spot for those of us from the VRWC to hang out and chat and also some other people are there. We're supposed to be building a new community, not keeping old one alive and setting up some new community around it.

But that means many of our problems are not the sietch's problems. I have a problem with idiot discord, as do dozens of other posters here. But there are, as of this writing, 528 people here, and most of them probably haven't heard of or care about the mess on SB. Now, since the people idiot discord hates are the staff and founding posters on the Sietch, and because of how and why this forum was founded, that drama will still be a major part of the Sietch's history and influence it's culture, but that doesn't mean we need to bring it up all of them time and act like our bitter enemies are everyone's bitter enemies.

To be fair the PM people didn't bring it up. The thread whining about other forums has been dead since last Friday and those latest posts were from a derail from some other thread.

And this thread was basically insisted upon and started and sustained by other sympathetic non-PM people who wanted to whine about the TS.

So in short, we should stop feeding them.

As I'd rather not register an account at FiC, mind posting some?

This forum is for people who want the TS gone to whine about its existence. There's another (thankfully dead) thread to whine about other firms in the NSFW boards bro.

 

[Terthna]

Honestly, I think Realm has a point. Not in that whole "persecution complex" thing, because no matter how many times someone tries to downplay it those enemies do exist and they do wish this site ill. But he's right that we shouldn't be constantly bringing it up.

When we set up this site, we could have made a new, private chat site to continue what we had on SB. But we didn't, and I'm glad for that, because the correct response to a bunch of dipshits setting up a secure base to shit talk us was not "oh yeah? Well two can play that game!" We decided to build something new instead, but part of that means becoming part of something new.

The Sietch is not supposed to be a hangout spot for those of us from the VRWC to hang out and chat and also some other people are there. We're supposed to be building a new community, not keeping old one alive and setting up some new community around it.

But that means many of our problems are not the sietch's problems. I have a problem with idiot discord, as do dozens of other posters here. But there are, as of this writing, 528 people here, and most of them probably haven't heard of or care about the mess on SB. Now, since the people idiot discord hates are the staff and founding posters on the Sietch, and because of how and why this forum was founded, that drama will still be a major part of the Sietch's history and influence it's culture, but that doesn't mean we need to bring it up all of them time and act like our bitter enemies are everyone's bitter enemies.

Honestly, I expected far more of the usual bad faith actors from SB to show up; we've barely managed to attract any of them. Hopefully this means we can make a clean break far sooner than I anticipated.

 

[Unhappy Anchovy]

I've pretty much said my piece in this topic and don't think I need to say any more. I feel that I have adequately made my point and supported it with consistent evidence. I did not, for instance, "call people Nazis without evidence" - I once said that you 'look like Nazis' and then clearly explained why, and made a follow up post explaining further. If that's not sufficient, then all I can say is that I explained as best I can.

As for the rest -

I think you are being extremely reckless and foolish when it comes to PR or optics. How you look matters. I cannot emphasise that enough. You present yourself a certain way, and the only thing achieved by refusing to think about it is ensuring that that your appearance will be chaotic, and at high risk of all the worst sorts of messages.

As to the external conspiracy: sure, there are jerks out there. I said this explicitly in my first post. Frankly there are people out there who'd like to undermine SB as well. But you will notice that I - and SB staff - have somehow managed to avoid posting unhinged rants to all and sundry, while asking that people rally around us. SB's approach to scandal has not been perfect, in my opinion, and there are flaws; but cripes, your approach here has been, in my opinion, terrible. And in any case, panic-mongering about phantom foes in no way justifies or excuses legitimate issues here.

This is probably where I part ways with you all. My apologies.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

And in any case, panic-mongering about phantom foes in no way justifies or excuses legitimate issues here.

"Phantom foes". Interesting word choice when said "phantoms" have already tried to get us deplatformed and have already attempted to blackmail TS's owner.

 

[ShieldWife]

I am in complete support of The Sietch, though I do think we could do a little bit better on some of these issues. I'm sure that the creation of this forum was stressful, especially with some of the ill will directed towards us but maybe relax a little bit about certain topics, maybe think through some of these decisions a bit more thoroughly.

Speaking of which, I'm not quite sure I understand Realm's thread ban (or Bacle's)

 

[Big Steve]

"Phantom foes". Interesting word choice when said "phantoms" have already tried to get us deplatformed and have already attempted to blackmail TS's owner.

This is not likely to help. All it does is keep the issue in contention.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Is there any other way? Because they will not let the issue lie down, they will continue to try to deplatform us even if we prostrate before them and beg forgivness. Once their hivemind brands you a nazi you are nazi forever.

 

[Unhappy Anchovy]

"Phantom foes". Interesting word choice when said "phantoms" have already tried to get us deplatformed and have already attempted to blackmail TS's owner.

I explicitly said that there are people out there who'd want to get rid of the Sietch.

The thing is...

Well, remember when I commented on the Zizek/Peterson debate? One of the good points Zizek made was that a claim made for ideological reasons can be pathological even if it is in fact true. Indeed, in pathological cases, the truth or falsehood of the claim is irrelevant: it must be held to be true in order to sustain a particular narrative, and that must is where the pathology, the core problem, lies.

That's more-or-less how I feel when you or Zoe start talking about the conspiracy of people out to destroy the Sietch.

Sure, there's an empirical question here. Insofar as it goes, there are a couple of people out there who do silly things in order to attack you. They are only a handful and they pose no actual threat - I would argue that you've done far more damage to yourselves than any external actor could - but if you want to press that point, sure, there are a few people in that category.

But the point is that the identity that you are crafting for the Sietch, as far as I can see, is one of an embattled and persecuted minority. In this topic the word that I keep coming back to is 'paranoid'. The story in Zoe's appeal was about the cabal of external enemies. In this topic, when I started making criticisms, the responses I saw were all about how there's some outside threat of people out to get you. Your response to me just now is about this threat. This forum is named the Sietch, which as your subtitle points out, means 'a place of refuge in time of danger'. What is this time of danger?

In that light, then, I fear that you are cultivating a tribal, siege mentality. Everyone else is out to get us! You're not safe out there! Better rally around our leader Zoe! That seems to be the story that the Sietch tells itself, at least to me, and I don't think it's a healthy story or one that will help in building a community.

Does that help clarify any?

 

[Rocinante]

I explicitly said that there are people out there who'd want to get rid of the Sietch.

The thing is...

Well, remember when I commented on the Zizek/Peterson debate? One of the good points Zizek made was that a claim made for ideological reasons can be pathological even if it is in fact true. Indeed, in pathological cases, the truth or falsehood of the claim is irrelevant: it must be held to be true in order to sustain a particular narrative, and that must is where the pathology, the core problem, lies.

That's more-or-less how I feel when you or Zoe start talking about the conspiracy of people out to destroy the Sietch.

Sure, there's an empirical question here. Insofar as it goes, there are a couple of people out there who do silly things in order to attack you. They are only a handful and they pose no actual threat - I would argue that you've done far more damage to yourselves than any external actor could - but if you want to press that point, sure, there are a few people in that category.

But the point is that the identity that you are crafting for the Sietch, as far as I can see, is one of an embattled and persecuted minority. In this topic the word that I keep coming back to is 'paranoid'. The story in Zoe's appeal was about the cabal of external enemies. In this topic, when I started making criticisms, the responses I saw were all about how there's some outside threat of people out to get you. Your response to me just now is about this threat. This forum is named the Sietch, which as your subtitle points out, means 'a place of refuge in time of danger'. What is this time of danger?

In that light, then, I fear that you are cultivating a tribal, siege mentality. Everyone else is out to get us! You're not safe out there! Better rally around our leader Zoe! That seems to be the story that the Sietch tells itself, at least to me, and I don't think it's a healthy story or one that will help in building a community.

Does that help clarify any?

I can't speak for owners and staff, but it seems that this being a safe haven (SAFE SPACE LOL!) is at least partially the point.

The site was founded originally because members of another website who had felt unwelcome started a PM, and then due to some bad actors targeting them, that got shut down. Their privacy was violated, as admins let themselves in to read all their private information. They were essentially deplatformed on that site, and that lead to the forming of this site.

Then some of those very same actors who targeted that other site and those members, and caused all the trouble that lead us here, started coming at this website. These aren't just random people. They succeeded once. A persecution complex isn't a complex when you're actually being persecuted.

This isn't just some persecution complex. They managed to actually interfere with another site and make big drama and big changes, which is still ongoing, and then they followed the refugees here to continue their assault.

(Leaving out names even though everyone knows the site to which I am referring)

So idk what the leaders here want, I can't and I'm not speaking for them, but this site was originally thought up as a refuge. I'm not surprised that it comes off that way, when that's what lead to it's creation.

 

[Harlock]

As we seem to now be drifting into broader debates outside the initial concerns the thread will now be locked.

It has been a useful exercise, this board is young and born under rather strained circumstances. It is our goal to continually improve the service offered here so the feedback and concerns have a point. Lessons are there to be learned.