United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread

[Cherico]

Not only that, but they are all too eager to send literal billions of dollars to Ukraine on top of that. It gives the appearance that they cannot care any less for their fellow Americans. I'm actually for aiding Ukraine, but I'm disgusted at this indifference to the threat to their fellow Americans and to the environment to boot.

Actually this is very much in line with how I've seen liberals act in real life.

Pontificate about how much people in the third world are suffering make a great show of how much compassion they have for them and then walk over the body of the dead veteran who died of exposure because he couldn't get a job with out a second thought.

All the compassion for the other non at all for their fellow country men.

 

[ATP]

Sure sure keep believing that…

How many tanks USA send to Ukraine ? 0
Kow many planes they send? again 0
Only modern weapons send there are Himars.All 18 of them/or 40,depend on sources/

If USA wonted save Ukraine,they would send 400 Abrams,200 F16 - and it would be arleady done.

 

[Rocinante]

How many tanks USA send to Ukraine ? 0
Kow many planes they send? again 0
Only modern weapons send there are Himars.All 18 of them/or 40,depend on sources/

If USA wonted save Ukraine,they would send 400 Abrams,200 F16 - and it would be arleady done.

You realize they are sending tanks now yes?

 

[Blasterbot]

How many tanks USA send to Ukraine ? 0
Kow many planes they send? again 0
Only modern weapons send there are Himars.All 18 of them/or 40,depend on sources/

If USA wonted save Ukraine,they would send 400 Abrams,200 F16 - and it would be arleady done.

Abrams would be a terrible choice to send them. they are hanger queens.

 

[Zachowon]

Abrams would be a terrible choice to send them. they are hanger queens.

Uh what?
Not nearly as much as people say they are.
People say the same about the Humvee and yet we see it do wonders in Ukraine.

The Abrams was a Hanger queen due to the sand of the ME.
In Eastern Europe where the tank was MADE to fight?
Diffrent story

 

[ATP]

You realize they are sending tanks now yes?

30 of them.After one year.If they want Ukraine victory,there would be 300 Abrams there 8 months ago.
But,it seems,it is kind of game between Democrats and Putin.
Knowing our luck,we would end in soviet hands again.

 

[Blasterbot]

30 of them.After one year.If they want Ukraine victory,there would be 300 Abrams there 8 months ago.
But,it seems,it is kind of game between Democrats and Putin.
Knowing our luck,we would end in soviet hands again.

uh yeah if they ended the war in 3 months they wouldn't have bled the Russians as much as they have. the western powers want russia to bleed. they don't give a fuck about ukraine beyond it being a useful catspaw and moral justification.

 

[Bacle]

Abrams would be a terrible choice to send them. they are hanger queens.

Eh, Ukraine is getting 30 of them, new builds to with diesel's instead of turbines, to ease logistics concerns.

Probably won't show up in Ukraine till the second half of the year, but that's why Ukraine is training on Leopards now, because they will be getting Leopards fairly quick.

 

[Rocinante]

30 of them.After one year.If they want Ukraine victory,there would be 300 Abrams there 8 months ago.
But,it seems,it is kind of game between Democrats and Putin.
Knowing our luck,we would end in soviet hands again.

They very much do not want it to end quick. The US industrial complex has huge interest in this conflict being long and drawn out, because it'll keep defense funding up for them.

Meanwhile Russia and Ukraine are going to continue to escalate things...

I have always been on Ukraine's side, but realistically, we have spent more and more money, we are also bleeding Russia, but we are risking a lot with all these escalations happening, and sending the tanks was one of them.

These countries have to sit at the bargaining table at some point and it's not going to happen until we start holding back on Ukraine a bit.

Russia just is not going to accept a flat out loss, and Ukraine is not going to secure an all out victory. They are going to need to sit down and talk and compromise at some point before nukes start flying.

 

[Zachowon]

They very much do not want it to end quick. The US industrial complex has huge interest in this conflict being long and drawn out, because it'll keep defense funding up for them.

Meanwhile Russia and Ukraine are going to continue to escalate things...

I have always been on Ukraine's side, but realistically, we have spent more and more money, we are also bleeding Russia, but we are risking a lot with all these escalations happening, and sending the tanks was one of them.

These countries have to sit at the bargaining table at some point and it's not going to happen until we start holding back on Ukraine a bit.

Russia just is not going to accept a flat out loss, and Ukraine is not going to secure an all out victory. They are going to need to sit down and talk and compromise at some point before nukes start flying.

Russia put nukes on our border years ago remember that.


Our allies have basically relied upon Russia for gas.
This conflict was basically Russia deciding to see if he can take advantage of those he has propped up in the west.

Compromise isn't happening unless Russia leaves all of Ukraine. Ukraine will not accept anything less.
Compromising with Russia just gives Russia more capability to get thier puppets into power in Ukraine. Once again.

 

[Bacle]

They very much do not want it to end quick. The US industrial complex has huge interest in this conflict being long and drawn out, because it'll keep defense funding up for them.

Meanwhile Russia and Ukraine are going to continue to escalate things...

I have always been on Ukraine's side, but realistically, we have spent more and more money, we are also bleeding Russia, but we are risking a lot with all these escalations happening, and sending the tanks was one of them.

These countries have to sit at the bargaining table at some point and it's not going to happen until we start holding back on Ukraine a bit.

Russia just is not going to accept a flat out loss, and Ukraine is not going to secure an all out victory. They are going to need to sit down and talk and compromise at some point before nukes start flying.

This is absolutely the wrong way to view and go about this situation, and neglects the long term view both forwards and backwards through time.

The fact is if Ukraine cedes anything, Russia will try again in a few years, till they get all of what they want and Ukraine ceases to exist. Then the Russians will do it in Moldova and anywhere they think they can get away with it.

Russian imperial ambitions are not going to go away, not matter how the west feels, and any concession towards them at this stage will just teach Russia that they can get away with doing this sort of thing again.

There is no middle ground here, because Russia/Putin will not stop this madness if they get to keep any part of Ukraine, they will just see it as justification of their own propaganda and learn they can and will get away with this sort of thing, because everyone is too afraid of the Russians nuclear saber rattling.

The west can help stop this madness by helping Ukraine regain control over it's full territory, and break the Russian imperial ambitions and conventional war fighting ability for generations, or it can force Ukraine to the table to lose territory, and give Russia time to rearm for the next invasion and then more blood will have to be spilled to contain Russian aggression till yet more people want to give the Bear a bone to sate it for a few more years.

This war can be made shorter by giving Ukraine the weapons it needs to devastate and cripple Russian logistics feeding the Russian front line and command hubs to the point a sustained push can remove Russian forces via rout or surrender.

Russia has to be made to accept defeat in Ukraine, or they will just move on to their next target.

We have to get used to the idea of not trying to 'fix' or 'partner' with Russia on anything, only containing the madness to their own internationally recognized borders.

I mean shit, even Kazakhstan does not recognize Russia's claims to Crimea or the Donbas, why are you so quick to throw in the towel? And make no mistake, the US public has gotten way to used to the idea of 'short' military conflicts or long term COIN operations, and forgot what true, grinding conventional/trench warfare is like.

And unlike Imperial Germany, there is no reason to believe Russia will adhere to any treaty or security guarantee they give Ukraine, unless it includes the 1991/pre-2014 Crimea annexation borders, and when this conflict has ended with a Russian withdrawal, I fully expect Ukraine will enter NATO, and both Finland and Sweden will have likely entered as well.

Putin has been NATO's greatest salesman, and public sentiment in Europe is more pro-NATO than it has been in decades.

This war isn't going to go away quickly, no matter how some parts of the the US public feels, because the UK and Poland know the score and won't pull the plug, and South Korea will love the additional arms sales, as well as Japan. Ukraine's support worldwide is only growing while Russia's is shrinking, and no one on the international stage is going to tell Ukraine to cede land unless they have a population already sympathetic to Russia (i.e. Orban/Hungary) or are already Russian allies (the Norks).

The GOP pushing for concessions to Russia is a wonderful way to hand the Dems a legitimate win in 2024, and the Dems fucking love sections of the GOP eating itself alive to oppose them more than support Ukraine, instead of trying to race them to push for more and better aid for Ukraine (which would have been the smart move by the GOP/GOP base).

 

[Rocinante]

This is absolutely the wrong way to view and go about this situation, and neglects the long term view both forwards and backwards through time.

The fact is if Ukraine cedes anything, Russia will try again in a few years, till they get all of what they want and Ukraine ceases to exist. Then the Russians will do it in Moldova and anywhere they think they can get away with it.

Russian imperial ambitions are not going to go away, not matter how the west feels, and any concession towards them at this stage will just teach Russia that they can get away with doing this sort of thing again.

There is no middle ground here, because Russia/Putin will not stop this madness if they get to keep any part of Ukraine, they will just see it as justification of their own propaganda and learn they can and will get away with this sort of thing, because everyone is too afraid of the Russians nuclear saber rattling.

The west can help stop this madness by helping Ukraine regain control over it's full territory, and break the Russian imperial ambitions and conventional war fighting ability for generations, or it can force Ukraine to the table to lose territory, and give Russia time to rearm for the next invasion and then more blood will have to be spilled to contain Russian aggression till yet more people want to give the Bear a bone to sate it for a few more years.

This war can be made shorter by giving Ukraine the weapons it needs to devastate and cripple Russian logistics feeding the Russian front line and command hubs to the point a sustained push can remove Russian forces via rout or surrender.

Russia has to be made to accept defeat in Ukraine, or they will just move on to their next target.

We have to get used to the idea of not trying to 'fix' or 'partner' with Russia on anything, only containing the madness to their own internationally recognized borders.

I mean shit, even Kazakhstan does not recognize Russia's claims to Crimea or the Donbas, why are you so quick to throw in the towel? And make no mistake, the US public has gotten way to used to the idea of 'short' military conflicts or long term COIN operations, and forgot what true, grinding conventional/trench warfare is like.

And unlike Imperial Germany, there is no reason to believe Russia will adhere to any treaty or security guarantee they give Ukraine, unless it includes the 1991/pre-2014 Crimea annexation borders, and when this conflict has ended with a Russian withdrawal, I fully expect Ukraine will enter NATO, and both Finland and Sweden will have likely entered as well.

Putin has been NATO's greatest salesman, and public sentiment in Europe is more pro-NATO than it has been in decades.

This war isn't going to go away quickly, no matter how some parts of the the US public feels, because the UK and Poland know the score and won't pull the plug, and South Korea will love the additional arms sales, as well as Japan. Ukraine's support worldwide is only growing while Russia's is shrinking, and no one on the international stage is going to tell Ukraine to cede land unless they have a population already sympathetic to Russia (i.e. Orban/Hungary) or are already Russian allies (the Norks).

The GOP pushing for concessions to Russia is a wonderful way to hand the Dems a legitimate win in 2024, and the Dems fucking love sections of the GOP eating itself alive to oppose them more than support Ukraine, instead of trying to race them to push for more and better aid for Ukraine (which would have been the smart move by the GOP/GOP base).

I don't think there is literally any beating Russia in this conflict, and that's the problem. Russia has lots of nukes, and I don't believe Putin is willing to admit defeat without those nukes flying.

The way I see it the two ways put are following this path of escalations until nukes fly, or sitting at the bargaining table.

And I don't think the US industrial complex and those in its pockets have any interest in letting the latter happen.

 

[Zachowon]

I don't think there is literally any beating Russia in this conflict, and that's the problem. Russia has lots of nukes, and I don't believe Putin is willing to admit defeat without those nukes flying.

The way I see it the two ways put are following this path of escalations until nukes fly, or sitting at the bargaining table.

And I don't think the US industrial complex and those in its pockets have any interest in letting the latter happen.

I can tell you right now.
Russia may use Tactical nukes in Ukraine.
But Putin would not he able to convince the Public that using nukes in Ukraine is a valid thing.
Because there is a reason it isn't a war.
There is a reason Muscovites havnt been seen much outside of volunteer units

 

[King Arts]

I can tell you right now.
Russia may use Tactical nukes in Ukraine.
But Putin would not he able to convince the Public that using nukes in Ukraine is a valid thing.
Because there is a reason it isn't a war.
There is a reason Muscovites havnt been seen much outside of volunteer units

Are you saying if Russia used a tactical nuke in Ukraine, the Russians people would rebel and there would be a coup?

 

[Bacle]

I don't think there is literally any beating Russia in this conflict, and that's the problem. Russia has lots of nukes, and I don't believe Putin is willing to admit defeat without those nukes flying.

The way I see it the two ways put are following this path of escalations until nukes fly, or sitting at the bargaining table.

And I don't think the US industrial complex and those in its pockets have any interest in letting the latter happen.

There is a way to beat Russia in this conflict, and it's via making it so he has as little foreign support as possible and making it so Putin knows using a nuke would not win him or Russia anything but more ruination and isolation.

Because the second Putin uses a nuke, non-proliferation is a dead letter; Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, and everyone else who fears invasion either builds or buys their own nukes, and the CCP very much do not want that.

Beijing stands to lose a lot if Russia lets a nuke loose, and Russia is far more dependent on the CCP than they were before due to the sanctions over this conflict.

Russian using a tac-nuke in Ukraine would also not do that much, if it was just one nuke; Putin would need a couple dozen tac nukes in Ukraine to actually turn the tide of the conflict, which would also probably dump enough fallout into the atmo over Poland and Europe to count as an act of war against NATO.

Putin saber rattles about nukes, and this is not a new thing; Russia threatened the CCP with nukes over some islands in the Amur River during their border disputes.

Treat Russian nuclear saber rattling like we treat North Korean nuclear saber rattling; mostly show for domestic audiences, not so much legit threats of nuclear force.

Now if Russia conducted an atmospheric nuclear test, in violation of the Test Ban Treaty, then I'd start getting worried they are actually serious about using nukes in combat in Ukraine.

 

[ATP]

uh yeah if they ended the war in 3 months they wouldn't have bled the Russians as much as they have. the western powers want russia to bleed. they don't give a fuck about ukraine beyond it being a useful catspaw and moral justification.

No,they want deal with them.Sending old stuff to Ukraine is kind of haggling - if you do not agree to deal,we woud send Ukraine more.
Remember,how Biden 19.02.20022 say,that small aggression mean small sanctions?

Thanks God for putin,who refused deal.Unfortunatelly,his kgb friends would kill him,and after that we would have another Democrats-soviet deal,just like during WW2.
Our only hope is that soviet army would be arleady destroyed by then.

Of course,we still have possibility that it is all kgb feint,and then their hidden super army wait for RIGHT HOUR to take over the world.

@Rocinante ,Ukraine could not made deal with putin,becouse for putin ukrainian nation do not exist.They are lesser russians who must become his happy slaves.
So,you could want peace,but putin do not accept it.

And,if we gave him Ukraine,he would want balts and moldavia.Then Poland.Then other countries once controlled by soviets.
Then germans,too - yes,now they are allies,but putin idol is sralin,who wanted backstab his german allies and take entire Europe.
So,unless you want gave kgbstan entire Europe,you must support Ukraine now.

 

[strunkenwhite]

I don't think there is literally any beating Russia in this conflict, and that's the problem. Russia has lots of nukes, and I don't believe Putin is willing to admit defeat without those nukes flying.

The way I see it the two ways put are following this path of escalations until nukes fly, or sitting at the bargaining table.

And I don't think the US industrial complex and those in its pockets have any interest in letting the latter happen.

Well, taking at face value the idea that "Russia/Putin literally will never admit defeat in Ukraine, and will nuke any army invading Russia", I think it would still be true that they won't escalate to nuclear war short of that line. What does that mean in combination? Ukraine pushes Russia back to its border and then the war settles into a colder state, where Ukraine fends off occasional missile barrages and/or human wave attacks, and sends its own infrastructure-damaging weapons over the border, but not its troops (en masse, rather than small scale infiltration/sabotage). Sort of like the Korean DMZ, but violent, and stupider. Or like how some people imagine Israel, maybe.

This is not as good for Ukraine as an actual end to the conflict, obviously, but on the other hand it probably keeps the aid flowing at a higher rate than otherwise. And it's not WWIII.

This isn't what I think is likely, but I do think it's a lot likelier than both nuclear war and Ukrainian capitulation in the event that Russia commits to "ride or die" even as actual victory becomes more and more clearly impossible.

 

[Blasterbot]

No,they want deal with them.Sending old stuff to Ukraine is kind of haggling - if you do not agree to deal,we woud send Ukraine more.
Remember,how Biden 19.02.20022 say,that small aggression mean small sanctions?

Thanks God for putin,who refused deal.Unfortunatelly,his kgb friends would kill him,and after that we would have another Democrats-soviet deal,just like during WW2.
Our only hope is that soviet army would be arleady destroyed by then.

Of course,we still have possibility that it is all kgb feint,and then their hidden super army wait for RIGHT HOUR to take over the world.

@Rocinante ,Ukraine could not made deal with putin,becouse for putin ukrainian nation do not exist.They are lesser russians who must become his happy slaves.
So,you could want peace,but putin do not accept it.

And,if we gave him Ukraine,he would want balts and moldavia.Then Poland.Then other countries once controlled by soviets.
Then germans,too - yes,now they are allies,but putin idol is sralin,who wanted backstab his german allies and take entire Europe.
So,unless you want gave kgbstan entire Europe,you must support Ukraine now.

yeah that is what I said. we send shit we don't care about and inflate our currency which won't matter unless you are middle class or lower class and we bleed Russia. we don't care about Ukraine. we don't care about our people. we just care that now is the time to shed Russian blood on the cheap. this doesn't mean russia is in the right. it is just the perspective of the people funding the war. how you feel about it in eastern Europe is something else. don't mistake Biden's motivation or McConnel's as being the same as yours. otherwise when they come at odds with yours you will be surprised.

 

[ATP]

yeah that is what I said. we send shit we don't care about and inflate our currency which won't matter unless you are middle class or lower class and we bleed Russia. we don't care about Ukraine. we don't care about our people. we just care that now is the time to shed Russian blood on the cheap. this doesn't mean russia is in the right. it is just the perspective of the people funding the war. how you feel about it in eastern Europe is something else. don't mistake Biden's motivation or McConnel's as being the same as yours. otherwise when they come at odds with yours you will be surprised.

Of course,Biden do not want help Poland.He want to use us in his politic,and when finally putin friends kill him,sell us to Moscov.
Our only hope is,that putin would hold long enough to bleed his army too much to take on Poland.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Of course,Biden do not want help Poland.He want to use us in his politic,and when finally putin friends kill him,sell us to Moscov.
Our only hope is,that putin would hold long enough to bleed his army too much to take on Poland.

I know this is your obsession, but I still gotta ask: now that Moscow has crippled itself this much, why you you believe Democrats would still want to sell Eastern Europe to Moscow? I can understand believing they would do so if there is something to be gained. But what is there even to gain here? He'd be throwing away allies who are richer, stronger, and more reliable than Russia. I presume you don't believe Democrats are all secretly communist sympathizers or whatever...

In other words, if Biden wants to sell you to Moscow, what do you think he thinks he'd be selling you FOR?