United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread

[The Original Sixth]

I'm glad Afghanistan is finally ending, the GIRoA is corrupt and evil as fuck to the extent the Taliban taking over is probably an improvement for most Afghans. It's surreal to watch Saigon 2.0 play out, especially this fast; Kandahar City and Herat fell today and probing attacks have already begun on Kabul. The one saving grace right now for the latter is the 4,600 Anglo-Americans coming into evacuate everyone out, so the Taliban will probably wait until we clear out to finish off that city in favor of taking out Dostum and Noor in Mazar.

20 years, 3,000 Soldiers and $1 Trillion....and all for nothing. A very fitting end to Empire, in a sense, and to the end of the "End of History".

I wouldn't say that we got nothing, we just got very little for the effort and money we put into it. We weakened Al Qaeda, but that was about it. No stable government, no democratic society, and not even a functional military. As for America, we're not really an empire. At best, it was a pseudo-empire.

 

[Cherico]

I wouldn't say that we got nothing, we just got very little for the effort and money we put into it. We weakened Al Qaeda, but that was about it. No stable government, no democratic society, and not even a functional military. As for America, we're not really an empire. At best, it was a pseudo-empire.

we are not an empire yet...

Right now we are a hedgemon, a very powerful one but just a hedgemon. I think there might be an actual american empire 80 years from now but as of today its not in the cards.

 

[Culsu]

Honestly, you guys have Empire schizophrenia. One the one hand, aside from a rabble of neocons your population, by and large, wants no part of that deal and never has. On the other hand, your DC elite and lots of your intel and military apparatus has spent the past seventy years playing at Empire. Which I honestly wouldn't even object to too much to - if you weren't so abjectly bad at it. You don't have the finesse of the British of playing everybody against each other, and you lack the ruthlessness of other successful Empires to make clean slates. Worst of all, you lack a clear vision of just what the hell you actually want, which is why you continually end up with clusterfucks like Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

 

[Cherico]

Honestly, you guys have Empire schizophrenia. One the one hand, aside from a rabble of neocons your population, by and large, wants no part of that deal and never has. On the other hand, your DC elite and lots of your intel and military apparatus has spent the past seventy years playing at Empire. Which I honestly wouldn't even object to too much to - if you weren't so abjectly bad at it. You don't have the finesse of the British of playing everybody against each other, and you lack the ruthlessness of other successful Empires to make clean slates. Worst of all, you lack a clear vision of just what the hell you actually want, which is why you continually end up with clusterfucks like Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Hedgemony not empire.

Empires draw wealth from the perferry and uses it to enrich the core, in return the core protects the perferry. Look at the cold war the perferry recieved both wealth and protection in exchange for a grand alliance against the soviet union. It created the greatest era of peace and prosperity humanity has ever known as a bi product.

But that chair had several legs america got paid back with an alliance and with access to energy.

The soviet union fell so the milatary strength was no longer needed, then we became self sufficient, and then there was a series of events that just pissed us off and now were going into another isolationist phase because honestly we have our own bullshit to sort out right now and I don't see that process being finished for another 80 years or so.

 

[Airedale260]

The problem is that the Taiban is still an effective force after a decade of occupation.

Because we have our hands tied behind our back, and the Afghan military are worse then the Norks.

Actually it's really because the GIROA is absolute shit at everything, and its leaders are completely incompetent. They just promoted a 26-year-old or so guy to Army Chief of Staff (from a division/corps commander) because he's a social media star. I shit you not.

When your governance is so bad that you make the Taliban look good, you KNOW there's a real problem.

Shouldn't really have bothered to begin with. Entire thing was a shitshow. You can't help people who refuse to help themselves.

The problem was at first we probably could have made different decisions to put things on a better path. Ashraf Ghani is an economist and the guy Afghanistan needed as president about ten years ago. Not now. Plus just packing up after driving our Bin Laden was no real option lest al Qaeda come back in force.

So that leaves us with three options:

1) These men are cowards.
2) These men know no relief is coming and are fleeing a hopeless situation.
3) These men were ordered to withdraw.

That about sum it up?

I'd say it's a combination of 2 along with 4) There is no actual leadership to command them. You can't put a bunch of privates in the field without leadership and expect them to win a battle.

They don't have the really advanced equipment NATO has...their tanks (what ones they have/had/still have) are all T-55s and T-62s. Pretty simple to maintain and that way we only have to worry about lower level gear falling like Humvees (without advanced stuff inside) falling into enemy hands. In fact when the Taliban brag about seizing American-made "armored vehicles" from the ANA, that's what they're actually referring to.

SB has a long-running thread in the War Room on this (and given its location the posters are generally objective on it). Basically, you have a shitstorm of ludicrous levels of corruption coupled with incompetent and ineffective leadership (basically from their president on down) and it's showing.

There's basically one or two guys (Atta Mohammed Noor and Ahmad Massoud -son of Ahmad Shah Massoud) who are decently competent at being able to push back, but other than that, the GIROA's chances at survival are low.

Hell, when you murder every Westerner trying to root out corruption and NATO/ISAF cover for you, you DESERVE to lose this.

 

[DarthOne]

 

[Zachowon]

You do know the US is no longer fighting them right?
That means makes no sense because of that

 

[DarthOne]

You do know the US is no longer fighting them right?
That means makes no sense because of that

WOOSH

 

[Rocinante]

You do know the US is no longer fighting them right?
That means makes no sense because of that

We spent 20 years fighting them.

They should be destroyed.

But instead they take over the country in a week.

They won. They defeated the US. We spent 20 years there, didn't accomplish shit, hightailed it out of there, And they took over a week after we left. They didn't need jets and nukes. All they needed were a few rusty AKs.

 

[The Original Sixth]

we are not an empire yet...

Right now we are a hedgemon, a very powerful one but just a hedgemon. I think there might be an actual american empire 80 years from now but as of today its not in the cards.

I know we're not an empire. I said we were at best, a pseudo-empire. As you explain later, we didn't create the world security blanket to enrich ourselves. To do that, we're gonna go back to gun-boat diplomacy.

Honestly, you guys have Empire schizophrenia. One the one hand, aside from a rabble of neocons your population, by and large, wants no part of that deal and never has. On the other hand, your DC elite and lots of your intel and military apparatus has spent the past seventy years playing at Empire. Which I honestly wouldn't even object to too much to - if you weren't so abjectly bad at it. You don't have the finesse of the British of playing everybody against each other, and you lack the ruthlessness of other successful Empires to make clean slates. Worst of all, you lack a clear vision of just what the hell you actually want, which is why you continually end up with clusterfucks like Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

No, as Cherico pointed out, the USA was never intent on being an empire. We are our own civilization and we're pretty happy with the territory we have right now. The point of creating the WTO and protecting world trade was to essentially pay the vast majority of our allies to be on our side. The point of NATO and the point of getting into a war like Vietnam, was to prove that we were willing to go to the matt for any of our allies.

After the Soviets collapsed as a superpower back in the 80s/90s, there was a split in the conversation in American politics. American civil servants (and some lawmakers), who were educated in world politics and understood the way the world worked, thought that this was the time to end global strife, create world peace, and generate a golden era for humanity. All that "End of History" sort of stuff you hear about in the 90s and early 00s.

The American public however, immediately turned toward domestic concerns. And there has been a growing friction between the people who make a lot of policy decisions/carry out policy decisions/advise policy decisions and the average voter. Because a lot of the people at the top see how they can use American power to shape the world into something new--that America+Europe are the leaders of the Free World. The people at the bottom don't see it that way; they see America as...America. Our allies are only those who fight and bleed for us in battle. That's it.

That friction finally produced a full blown battle in 2016, with the election of President Trump. And although Biden is more pro-establishment, he's a very moderate pro-establishment guy and he's not a progressive liberal either. So instead of re-engaging with the rest of the world in the Pre-Trump era, Biden is even less free trade and less NATO driven. He makes promises of committing to the defense of Europe, but thus far it's less substantial and more...

 

[The Original Sixth]

We spent 20 years fighting them.

They should be destroyed.

What made you think that was possible? Without committing genocide, I mean? The Taliban are very popular in the rural areas of Afghanistan. It would be like the Democrats killing all the rural Republicans.

But instead they take over the country in a week.

It's actually closer to 2 /12 months right now, so it might be between 3-6 months. Assuming the Taliban's offensive doesn't collapse or they don't overstretch themselves. Which is looking pretty unlikely.

They won. They defeated the US. We spent 20 years there, didn't accomplish shit, hightailed it out of there, And they took over a week after we left. They didn't need jets and nukes. All they needed were a few rusty AKs.

Lol, no.

What was the USA's strategic objective in invading Afghanistan? It was to destroy Al Qaeda and deny them a place to operate within Afghanistan, because the Taliban refused to just hand them over to us. So the US invaded, kicked out the Taliban, established a new government, and then spent 20 years trying to make sure that said government was functional.

Except the Afghanistan government was horribly corrupt and inefficient. As you can see, where they're losing to a force that on paper, is less than half their size and poorly armed compared to their American/Soviet supplied weapons and gear. Not just losing either, but being overrun. Sir Robin doesn't turn tail as quickly as the Afghan military.

 

[Rocinante]

What made you think that was possible? Without committing genocide, I mean? The Taliban are very popular in the rural areas of Afghanistan. It would be like the Democrats killing all the rural Republicans.



'

My point being that it's not possible. A few guys with AKs can stop the US military for 20 years, so Biden's argument about how you'll need jets and nukes is utter bullshit. If you can't stop some dudes with rusty AKs, you aren't stopping armed Americans.

Insurgencies work.

 

[Zachowon]

My point being that it's not possible. A few guys with AKs can stop the US military for 20 years, so Biden's argument about how you'll need jets and nukes is utter bullshit. If you can't stop some dudes with rusty AKs, you aren't stopping armed Americans.

Insurgencies work.

Because we have media and the world wide web exists.
Without those, we most likely would have wiped them out

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Insurgencies are defeated by carefully controlled savagery and winning hearts and minds. America didn't have the stomach for the former and didn't put enough effort into the latter.

 

[The Original Sixth]

My point being that it's not possible. A few guys with AKs can stop the US military for 20 years, so Biden's argument about how you'll need jets and nukes is utter bullshit. If you can't stop some dudes with rusty AKs, you aren't stopping armed Americans.

Insurgencies work.

Yeah, of course insurgencies CAN work. And of course Biden's argument was bullshit. That's not a revelation to anyone with half a brain. But that isn't why the Afghan army is losing hand over fist. It's because they're a collection of cowards and welfare queens.

 

[Rocinante]

Because we have media and the world wide web exists.
Without those, we most likely would have wiped them out

Keep telling yourself that lol

 

[Doomsought]

Insurgencies are defeated by carefully controlled savagery and winning hearts and minds. America didn't have the stomach for the former and didn't put enough effort into the latter.

You cannon "Win hearts and minds" but you can conquer them.
What you need to write a new code of laws for them, enforce it, and for a full generation inundate them with propaganda in order to change their culture. You need to rewrite their textbooks and flood their news programs with reports of how many of the locals your enemies killed and injured. Basically you need to do the exact opposite of what we did.

 

[Zachowon]

Keep telling yourself that lol

its the truth.
Do you know whythat one PMC changed their name? Because they got caught doing such things. Without that, they would have done more

 

[Marduk]

Yeah, of course insurgencies CAN work. And of course Biden's argument was bullshit. That's not a revelation to anyone with half a brain. But that isn't why the Afghan army is losing hand over fist. It's because they're a collection of cowards and welfare queens.

Oh its worse than that. Cowards and welfare queens imply that there are still warm bodies doing something, even if poorly. For all the US politician's talk about how big the Afghan army is, that in itself is a diplomatically described piece of bullshit. Since a long time it was a plague of ANA that some unknown but large chunk of it doesn't consist of shitty troops, but of no troops at all; that is a lot of the troops exist only on paper, as an artifact of corrupt bureaucracy, solely for the purpose of some corrupt officers pocketing the salaries and supplies which the non-existent soldiers are entitled to.

Afghan ghost soldiers, how and why there are so many

In this report, The Afghan Dispatch explain the phenomenon of the Afghan ghost soldiers, how it happens after most new contracts within the Afghan Army.

www.afghandispatch.com

Afghanistan Loses 42,000 Troops in Crackdown on 'Ghost Soldiers'

The overall security situation in Afghanistan is reportedly deteriorating amid increasing calls for a U.S. withdrawal.

www.military.com

Afghanistan's 'ghost soldiers': thousands enlisted to fight Taliban don't exist

Investigation found that 40% of troops in Helmand province are fake names or dead men, leaving Afghan border patrol filling the front line void indefinitely

www.theguardian.com

Report: Nearly 200K Afghan Soldiers Are 'Ghost' Troops

Nearly two-thirds, or about 200,000, of the number of U.S.-funded Afghan troops have been deemed nonexistent “ghost” service members.

www.breitbart.com

The US still doesn't know how many Afghan security forces actually exist, surprising no one

In other news, water is wet

taskandpurpose.com

All sorts of educated guesses made in these articles set the ghost soldier share at a stunning 40% to 70% of all Afghan uniformed services personnel - because its not just the army, the police runs the same scheme too. Obviously with increasing anarchy and US supervision leaving the problem is only going to get worse.

No wonder ANA can hardly get anything done when all their units are at less than half the strength they are on paper, and that's before the other corrupt schemes at all levels.

 

[The Original Sixth]

Oh its worse than that. Cowards and welfare queens imply that there are still warm bodies doing something, even if poorly. For all the US politician's talk about how big the Afghan army is, that in itself is a diplomatically described piece of bullshit. Since a long time it was a plague of ANA that some unknown but large chunk of it doesn't consist of shitty troops, but of no troops at all; that is a lot of the troops exist only on paper, as an artifact of corrupt bureaucracy, solely for the purpose of some corrupt officers pocketing the salaries and supplies which the non-existent soldiers are entitled to.

Afghan ghost soldiers, how and why there are so many

In this report, The Afghan Dispatch explain the phenomenon of the Afghan ghost soldiers, how it happens after most new contracts within the Afghan Army.

www.afghandispatch.com

Afghanistan Loses 42,000 Troops in Crackdown on 'Ghost Soldiers'

The overall security situation in Afghanistan is reportedly deteriorating amid increasing calls for a U.S. withdrawal.

www.military.com

Afghanistan's 'ghost soldiers': thousands enlisted to fight Taliban don't exist

Investigation found that 40% of troops in Helmand province are fake names or dead men, leaving Afghan border patrol filling the front line void indefinitely

www.theguardian.com

Report: Nearly 200K Afghan Soldiers Are 'Ghost' Troops

Nearly two-thirds, or about 200,000, of the number of U.S.-funded Afghan troops have been deemed nonexistent “ghost” service members.

www.breitbart.com

The US still doesn't know how many Afghan security forces actually exist, surprising no one

In other news, water is wet

taskandpurpose.com

All sorts of educated guesses made in these articles set the ghost soldier share at a stunning 40% to 70% of all Afghan uniformed services personnel - because its not just the army, the police runs the same scheme too. Obviously with increasing anarchy and US supervision leaving the problem is only going to get worse.

No wonder ANA can hardly get anything done when all their units are at less than half the strength they are on paper, and that's before the other corrupt schemes at all levels.

Crap, I hadn't realized that their police force was considered PART of that organization. Dear God, what a fucking shitshow. No wonder they're getting fucked in the ass.