This side discussion about the hypothetical Fourth (Fifth?) Partition of Poland between "KGBStan" and the Fourth Reich should've been given its own thread in the Alternate History forum.
@ATP's rants thread?This side discussion about the hypothetical Fourth (Fifth?) Partition of Poland between "KGBStan" and the Fourth Reich should've been given its own thread in the Alternate History forum.
There was supposed to be a joint Soviet Anglo-American operation to take together the German capital, however Eisenhower thought it would be a pointless endeavor because the Soviets had already entered Germany (Silesia and Baltic coast Prussia), the postwar occupation zone had already been decided before and they would have fought what amounted to soldiers who had the spirit or fighting will of a "cornered animal" that they would have faced soldiers, Volkssturm and SS remnants that had every intention of fighting for every damn inch of terrain and buildings and the Anglo-US forces didn't had the same wrath the Soviets had against Berlin.I thought the Reds had about two-thirds of Berlin secured/fighting the Germans in the streets before the Allies finally broke through and pushed into the city?
Only becouse soviets tried to backstab them.Hitler was mad,but smart enough to see that,and backstabbed them first.Did you forget that Germans fought the actual soviets even though they were actually allies at the time? The time they actually worked together to split up Poland.
IIRC the Soviets were actually planning on attacking Germany, and the peace was to be used as a staging period (like one, two years) to ramp up production, gather supplies, build tanks and planes, et cetera... but thenOnly becouse soviets tried to backstab them.Hitler was mad,but smart enough to see that,and backstabbed them first.
If he failed to do so,soviets would attack him - and we would live in soviet world now.
Well,you maybe would live,my parents would die so i would never be born.
@Jormungandr , @Husky_Khan i wish that it would be rants.When it happen,i would say "see,i told you" when we meet in massgrave.
IIRC the Soviets were actually planning on attacking Germany, and the peace was to be used as a staging period (like one, two years) to ramp up production, gather supplies, build tanks and planes, et cetera... but thenthe Fire Nation attackedHitler invaded first long before the Soviets were ready with stuff that shat on basically everything the Reds had at the time.
Hitler was just smarter and faster than Stalin. shrug
And then the Fire Nation is all like can I haz Earth Nation clay? Is like totally Best Clay!!!1The Fire Nation wants to partition a part of Poland too?!?! Oh no!
And then the Fire Nation is all like can I haz Earth Nation clay? Is like totally Best Clay!!!1
The idea of Icebreaker (USSR attacking first) has...little confirmation as far as I know. TIKHistory should have some videos on the matter with sources.IIRC the Soviets were actually planning on attacking Germany, and the peace was to be used as a staging period (like one, two years) to ramp up production, gather supplies, build tanks and planes, et cetera... but thenthe Fire Nation attackedHitler invaded first long before the Soviets were ready with stuff that shat on basically everything the Reds had at the time.
Hitler was just smarter and faster than Stalin. shrug
The idea of Icebreaker (USSR attacking first) has...little confirmation as far as I know. TIKHistory should have some videos on the matter with sources.
What Husky_Khan said:The idea of Icebreaker (USSR attacking first) has...little confirmation as far as I know. TIKHistory should have some videos on the matter with sources.
USSR was definitely not ready to attack anytime soon by the time of Barbarossa (from what I understand)... but both Germany and USSR saw world conquest as their goal and an armed conflict as inevitable outcome of said goal. Fact that Stalin decided to sort out things in the USSR first doesn't mean he has given up on world conquest.It's important to make a distinction between Suvorov's thesis that Stalin was planning an offensive War Against Germany really soon, and the far broader expectation that the Soviet Union saw an inevitability of conflict with Nazi Germany which he was currently mollifying with appeasement policies, and later on a conflict with the Capitalist Western powers in general.
The Soviet Union was acting quite expansionistic as it was already, having swallowed up Eastern Poland, the Baltic Countries, Bessarabia from Romania and going to war with Finland. And they weren't blind to Nazi Germany's latent hostility to the Comintern.
Oh, and just a reminder: "Kherson will fall any day now."The drones do seem to range further and further afield ...
The Pantsir maker is a smart target - even weaker AA as a result.
Well,states are not immortal,so one day somebody would destroy Ukraine and take Kherson....but not now,and i think that it would be turks.Oh, and just a reminder: "Kherson will fall any day now."
Well,they want Holocaust Izrael,too !The Fire Nation wants to partition a part of Poland too?!?! Oh no!
Give them 7 years.If Poland would be destroyed,it would be around 2030.Both germans and kgbstan have good chances for doing that.Well,maybe i die thanks to kung fu flu by then.Hmmm, maybe I'll do a Partition of Polania thread like I did with the Gallia threads. I can give it a CYOA format and see if ATP still ends up in a mass grave by the end of it as he constantly predicts.
Not Suvorow thesis,but facts he discovered.Like red army replacing border NKWD units on border, removing barbed wire on part of border, and NKWD convoy units on border/for future prisoners/It's important to make a distinction between Suvorov's thesis that Stalin was planning an offensive War Against Germany really soon, and the far broader expectation that the Soviet Union saw an inevitability of conflict with Nazi Germany which he was currently mollifying with appeasement policies, and later on a conflict with the Capitalist Western powers in general.
The Soviet Union was acting quite expansionistic as it was already, having swallowed up Eastern Poland, the Baltic Countries, Bessarabia from Romania and going to war with Finland. And they weren't blind to Nazi Germany's latent hostility to the Comintern.
Russia was nowhere near that ready to attack Germany -- a year and a month, maybe, and that's stretching it.Well,they want Holocaust Izrael,too !
Give them 7 years.If Poland would be destroyed,it would be around 2030.Both germans and kgbstan have good chances for doing that.Well,maybe i die thanks to kung fu flu by then.
Not Suvorow thesis,but facts he discovered.Like red army replacing border NKWD units on border, removing barbed wire on part of border, and NKWD convoy units on border/for future prisoners/
All things,according to soviet manuals,happened ONLY just before attack.Hitler was faster - but one month,maybe even week faster.
Then why they removed barbed wire on border,and replaced NKWD guards with Red army? why convoy NKWD units,made for transporting prisoners,were on border,too ?Russia was nowhere near that ready to attack Germany -- a year and a month, maybe, and that's stretching it.
Stalin was banking on more time; Hitler knew it, which is why he bum-rushed Russia in Barbarossa... and it worked.
If the Reds hadn't quickly moved all their production capability over the Urals, whoever's left in Russia would be speaking German right now.
Precautionary measures mostly, which were ultimately ineffective because it was like a small dam made by beavers trying to hold back a flash flood. See, the Reds/Stalin didn't expect Germany to be able to attack that soon; they thought they'd have enough time to ramp up and invade first. They thought these additional precautions would be enough to respond to a hypothetical German attack and infiltration at that time.Then why they removed barbed wire on border,and replaced NKWD guards with Red army? why convoy NKWD units,made for transporting prisoners,were on border,too ?
They have 16 paras brigades,which have gliders.They hold them on airfields,but do not build hangars,and do not plan to made them.Which mean,that they plan to use them in 1941 - in 1942,after soviet winter under open heavens,they would good only for burning.
They were not fully prepared for attack - but germans were even less prepared,and they still attacked.
I don't think anybody suggested that Nazi Germany didn't want war with the USSR?this whole discussion is retarded. The point is Germany and Russia have overlapping areas of geopolitical interest and these will always lead to tensions. Both nations can not dominate Eastern Europe yet both nations security (economic and military) require doing so. Some gotcha about Nazi Germany not wanting war with the USSR is both idiotically untrue and proves nothing even if it were.