Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Buba]

soviets take over half of Poland,germans another

Germany and Moscovy with what Army though?

Exactly. Bundeskanzlerin Merkel did a better job in destroying Germany's military than the Treaty of Versailles.

 

[TheRejectionist]

I disagree, so it seems we're at an impasse.

On the one hand, Germany needs to regain some of its national pride back. Its populations are being displaced, harassed, murdered, and raped by migrant hordes, and the Leftist/globalist parasites in charge will happily let it burn if they can maintain power.

Germans are so worried about offending people because of the past that it's destroying their future.

On the other hand, every time Germany has been... ambitious has resulted in disaster. Basically, we need Germans to get their pride back without said pride being contaminated by ambition again.

Personally, I would be content with a Germany that is not self-castrated and doesn't impose self-castration on other nations that are its neighbors, which it has done quite often and the reason many EU political leaders lacked or lack a spine.

Exactly. Bundeskanzlerin Merkel did a better job in destroying Germany's military than the Treaty of Versailles.

The only good thing we can say she did. CDU leaders have been proven right that it wasn't a good idea to let an Ostdeutsch even being part of the party, let alone lead the nation, even worse for how long she did.

 

[ATP]

Well if that's true then it won't matter how many tanks you have versus Germany.

Regardlesss it's 250 T-72M and 60 PT-91's sent to Ukraine.

In turn Poland has received 28 K2 Panthers and, 69 M1A1's and 28 M1A2 Abrams on lease already. But 56 K2's and 47 M1A1's will arrive this year.

Plus additionally if Russia attacks NATO forces are already stationed in the Baltics and Poland.

We send 14 Leopards 2,too.So,let say that we gave 40% of our tanks,not 50%.
K2 - very good tanks,but german agent Tusk want to cut deals with Korea,so possible that they never come.

NATO mean USA,and USA once gave Poland for notching to Moscov in 1945 when it was in their own best interests to fight them.
So,they could do that again.

 

[Poe]

NATO mean USA,and USA once gave Poland for notching to Moscov in 1945 when it was in their own best interests to fight them.
So,they could do that again.

We barely made it to Berlin on time to stop the Soviets from taking Germany, fighting over Poland wasn't a realistic option at the time nor would I agree it was in our best interest. It was in Polands, and maybe Britains, best interest but the USA? I don't see how.

 

[Jormungandr]

We barely made it to Berlin on time to stop the Soviets from taking Germany, fighting over Poland wasn't a realistic option at the time nor would I agree it was in our best interest. It was in Polands, and maybe Britains, best interest but the USA? I don't see how.

Barely made it and the Soviets still took a majority of the city, too.

 

[ATP]

We barely made it to Berlin on time to stop the Soviets from taking Germany, fighting over Poland wasn't a realistic option at the time nor would I agree it was in our best interest. It was in Polands, and maybe Britains, best interest but the USA? I don't see how.

Soviets were fighting on american trucks and railroads,using american ammo and fuel.
Their air forces were so shitty,that germans coukd use their Ju 87 to bomb them dring day when soviets had 10:1 numerical advantage.
Soviet artillery crews fired in lines,becouse they were ill trained and could not target enemy otherwis.
When each american battery could target enemy from their own positions.

Soviets T.34.85 were worst then Shermans with 76mm guns.And soviet infrantry still attacked in waves.

Besides,50% of their oil come from Baku - one raid of B.17,and it would burn.Soviets do not have fighters which fight well at 7000m.

All Americans need was :

1.Burn Baku and other refineries
2.retreat from one german river to another burning soviets from air.
3.When they are out of fuel,lend troops in Poland or Baltic states - people there waited for liberation.

And,USA would do it for themselves,not Poland - in OTL soviets almost burned them in atomic war,here USA would be ONLY world power wit monopoly on A bombs.

Now,USA would rule world,not fall into anarchy facing 2 or 3 wars.If you acted 78 years ago,there would be no enemies capable of facing you.

 

[TheRejectionist]

We barely made it to Berlin on time to stop the Soviets from taking Germany, fighting over Poland wasn't a realistic option at the time nor would I agree it was in our best interest.

Frankly, considering that many of the EU's problems of the last 20 years seem to come from Germany like the Euro and the refugee migrant crisis it would have been best leaving Germany or at least a bigger chunk to the Soviets.
To quote an Italian politician "I like Germany so much I want two of them".

 

[Marduk]

Frankly, considering that many of the EU's problems of the last 20 years seem to come from Germany like the Euro and the refugee migrant crisis it would have been best leaving Germany or at least a bigger chunk to the Soviets.
To quote an Italian politician "I like Germany so much I want two of them".

Frankly the problem in question recognizes no borders, as its vanguard says openly.
If Germany wasn't so influential in Europe, then they would have focused their efforts to get whoever would be most influential then to do the same stupid shit. They have considerable pull in all major old EU countries even currently, leading to none of them being willing to significantly deviate from the same general attitude in migrant policy by more than mere words.
Germany couldn't have done it if France and UK said "this is absolutely retarded and you have to stop", joining few other countries, but the notable part is that they didn't do much about it. It's not like Germany can't get outvoted and outpoliticked in the EU, it's just that the brand of politics it pushes has a lot more support than just Germany.
As for Spain and Italy, technically they are the entry to Schengen zone and could unilaterally stop the movement, but they also aren't better, they just complain and often support "migrant redistribution" propositions of Germany.

 

[TheRejectionist]

As for Spain and Italy, technically they are the entry to Schengen zone and could unilaterally stop the movement, but they also aren't better, they just complain and often support "migrant redistribution" propositions of Germany.

Our politicians support it, because one way or another we end up with Germanophiles in Rome. It is like they won the war.
Or better, they lost the war and "won" the "peace".

All for nothing.

 

[Jormungandr]

Our politicians support it, because one way or another we end up with Germanophiles in Rome. It is like they won the war.
Or better, they lost the war and "won" the "peace".

All for nothing.

It's ironic: Germany lost the Second World War but they still established a hegemony over Europe.

When I see people defend the EU, saying shit like "oh, but it's from Brussels and it has a Parliament, blah blah blah", I think, "yeah, but Germany and (to a lesser extent) France have the biggest voices and influences. What they say basically goes, one way or another".

 

[Poe]

It's ironic: Germany lost the Second World War but they still established a hegemony over Europe.

When I see people defend the EU, saying shit like "oh, but it's from Brussels and it has a Parliament, blah blah blah", I think, "yeah, but Germany and (to a lesser extent) France have the biggest voices and influences. What they say basically goes, one way or another".

Which is why I'm in favor of putting some fire under Germanys ass to rebuild its military. It has achieved all of its turn of the century aims and has conquered Europe, but has thus far been utilizing American troops and cash to do so.

 

[TheRejectionist]

It's ironic: Germany lost the Second World War but they still established a hegemony over Europe.

When I see people defend the EU, saying shit like "oh, but it's from Brussels and it has a Parliament, blah blah blah", I think, "yeah, but Germany and (to a lesser extent) France have the biggest voices and influences. What they say basically goes, one way or another".

It is not an hegemon but it acts like one, that's why you see many German tourists acting like they own the places they go.

Which is why I'm in favor of putting some fire under Germanys ass to rebuild its military. It has achieved all of its turn of the century aims and has conquered Europe, but has thus far been utilizing American troops and cash to do so.

Oh no fuck that, I am ok with a non-self-castrated German public not with a new Prussia. You can do this without them rebuilding an army and any Polish (that is not a Tusk-fan), Czech, Slovakian and few others will agree with me on this one.

 

[Jormungandr]

It is not an hegemon but it acts like one, that's why you see many German tourists acting like they own the places they go.

Oh no fuck that, I am ok with a non-self-castrated German public not with a new Prussia. You can do this without them rebuilding an army and any Polish (that is not a Tusk-fan), Czech, Slovakian and few others will agree with me on this one.

They need to rebuild their military to NATO commitment levels, but rebuilding it past that is a no-go. We don't want an ambitious Germany again.

The German public also needs to have pride in itself again because they've been groomed by Leftist governments and pressure into equating being proud of their heritage/culture = Nazi -- Their being basically self-castrated is destroying them because of what's going on right now.

Same deal with the Nordic countries, like Sweden and Norway: There are rapes, murders, and bombings going on up there against the native Swedish and Norwegians because of the third world barbarians swamping it, and if you speak up against it? You're basically rendered persona non grata by the Leftist governments.

 

[TheRejectionist]

They need to rebuild their military to NATO commitment levels, but rebuilding it past that is a no-go. We don't want an ambitious Germany again.

Again, I don't have incentives to believe that is a good idea.

The German public also needs to have pride in itself again because they've been groomed by Leftist governments and pressure into equating being proud of their heritage/culture = Nazi -- Their being basically self-castrated is destroying them because of what's going on right now.

Most of the German public is docile in the Heimatland because they had the same two parties ruling, it was always a monopoly of either the SPD (who some might argue was a decent party 20 years ago, not the submissive gimps social progressive imps they are today) or the CDU of Kohl and Merkel, so it's not only a "leftist" fault...it's a fault of the Deutschevolk as well. Italy (to a lesser degree) has the same problem.

Same deal with the Nordic countries, like Sweden and Norway: There are rapes, murders, and bombings going on up there against the native Swedish and Norwegians because of the third world barbarians swamping it, and if you speak up against it? You're basically rendered persona non grata by the Leftist governments.

Sweden IS turning on the last 20-30 years of leftism, and quicklier than the other Northern countries, but because compared to others they took it to the extreme and the public has recently greatly turned against the notion you said. Not quick enough yet but let them get there.

 

[ATP]

Frankly, considering that many of the EU's problems of the last 20 years seem to come from Germany like the Euro and the refugee migrant crisis it would have been best leaving Germany or at least a bigger chunk to the Soviets.
To quote an Italian politician "I like Germany so much I want two of them".

Yup.If USA was stupid enough to not put down soviets in 1945 when they could do so easily,they should gave them all of Germany,or at least protestant parts.

World would be much better now - germans would not try build IV Reich here.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

They need to rebuild their military to NATO commitment levels, but rebuilding it past that is a no-go. We don't want an ambitious Germany again.

The German public also needs to have pride in itself again because they've been groomed by Leftist governments and pressure into equating being proud of their heritage/culture = Nazi -- Their being basically self-castrated is destroying them because of what's going on right now.

Same deal with the Nordic countries, like Sweden and Norway: There are rapes, murders, and bombings going on up there against the native Swedish and Norwegians because of the third world barbarians swamping it, and if you speak up against it? You're basically rendered persona non grata by the Leftist governments.

this wont happen until Europe gets out from under the american boot. Its American interests that promote the gay stuff, the mass importation of africans and asians, the suppression of nationalism and christianity.

 

[LordsFire]

this wont happen until Europe gets out from under the american boot. Its American interests that promote the gay stuff, the mass importation of africans and asians, the suppression of nationalism and christianity.

Uh...

...No.

Homosexuality has a long and storied history among the social elite of Europe, and America's issue with immigration was one of deliberate neglect, not active invitation the way that Merkel and the other globalists in Europe went into. Also, the largest singular driving force behind it all is George Soros, who is European.

While there certainly has been some leak of American progressive nonsense into Europe, don't forget that many of the problems in academia in the west were instigated or enhanced by Europeans who came to the US during/around WWII, nor that Foucault, Derida, and the other seminal post-modernists (and open pedophiles) were French.

Blaming America for Europe's problem with rampant leftists, would be like blaming the USA for communism in Russia in the 1930's. Globalist leftists certainly interact with each other, but Europe is generally more left than America, not less.

 

[Poe]

Uh...

...No.

Homosexuality has a long and storied history among the social elite of Europe, and America's issue with immigration was one of deliberate neglect, not active invitation the way that Merkel and the other globalists in Europe went into. Also, the largest singular driving force behind it all is George Soros, who is European.

While there certainly has been some leak of American progressive nonsense into Europe, don't forget that many of the problems in academia in the west were instigated or enhanced by Europeans who came to the US during/around WWII, nor that Foucault, Derida, and the other seminal post-modernists (and open pedophiles) were French.

You aren't wrong here but there's nuance. At the end of WWII a ton of European leftists, the type who saw the USSR as a failure/"red fascism," came to the US (you mention the french but a lot of them were Germans as well) and took up positions as teachers. These people started the "New Left" movement and started the long march through the institutions. But that was 60 years ago at this point and today American institutions are either partially or fully under control of Americans who are the intellectual grandchildren of those Europeans. Further the socially liberal parties that dominate Europe are little more than american puppets controlled entirely by American capital in order to keep them under the boot of America and specifically to prevent Germany from ever reigniting itself to be a competitor with the US. It's in the old adage that the purpose of NATO is to keep the Germans down and the Americans in.

Blaming America for Europe's problem with rampant leftists, would be like blaming the USA for communism in Russia in the 1930's.

This is a very real belief held by those on the right, and not without substance whether you agree or not

 

[Marduk]

this wont happen until Europe gets out from under the american boot. Its American interests that promote the gay stuff, the mass importation of africans and asians, the suppression of nationalism and christianity.

Nice conspiracy theory you have here.
What is Sweden, Germany, UK? You think it's USA making them be leftist, more leftist than USA itself, even though they don't want to and not local leftists, who generally hate USA for its "warmongering", "pushing capitalism" and "promoting global inequality"?

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Uh...

...No.

Homosexuality has a long and storied history among the social elite of Europe, and America's issue with immigration was one of deliberate neglect, not active invitation the way that Merkel and the other globalists in Europe went into. Also, the largest singular driving force behind it all is George Soros, who is European.

While there certainly has been some leak of American progressive nonsense into Europe, don't forget that many of the problems in academia in the west were instigated or enhanced by Europeans who came to the US during/around WWII, nor that Foucault, Derida, and the other seminal post-modernists (and open pedophiles) were French.

Blaming America for Europe's problem with rampant leftists, would be like blaming the USA for communism in Russia in the 1930's. Globalist leftists certainly interact with each other, but Europe is generally more left than America, not less.

Marx was a German, but the communist revolution started in Russia, and the Soviet Union exported around the world. In the same way, the USA is the USSR of sodomy.