Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Arch Dornan]

They raised the Soviet Flag. 👌

It's their legacy after all. The Eastern front and Stalingrad gave it meaning to those descendants who knew someone who died to that until it doesn't.

 

[ATP]

To add to this.
Only 300 Bayaktars have been made, and only 60 to Ukraine

Nothing new.In 1941 german captured islands near Estonia,but one attack was initially repelled/germans lost about 20KIA/
Soviet commander claimed to sunk 4 ships/germans send none/,20 trawlers/german send few,but all survived/,and more then 1000 german KIA,including paratroopers who was never drop there.

Putin just follow his soviet idols.

 

[Marduk]

FWIW, in May 2014, a majority of the people in the Donbass supported either a federal Ukraine or outright secession from Ukraine:

Press releases and reports - Attitude to the unitary state and separatism in Ukraine

www.kiis.com.ua

So, the separatist movement there actually was genuine, even if it was led by some (often Russian) bad apples.

a) Very slight majority.
b) Russian propaganda over whole Ukraine was still active without restrictions then.
c) They got a lot of news about Russia and its intents since then. Especially the residents of Donbass. They thought living in a pro-Russia separatist state will be like they are advertising "Russian world" on TV. In reality they got a North Korea lite, complete with more poverty, frozen military conflict and rule by thugs/secret police with unrestricted power. And the Russian government they fawned over, that was supposed to protect them from mean Ukrainians, was perfectly ok with inflicting that on them.

 

[ATP]

I think thats the Victory Flag. Russians fly it to celebrate a victory

It is genociders flag,under which millions was murdered.Mostly russians.And proof,that current population there is russian speaking,but not longer russians.

It's their legacy after all. The Eastern front and Stalingrad gave it meaning to those descendants who knew someone who died to that until it doesn't.

Genociders legacy.Soviets killed their own soldiers in wave attacks which was no need at all.Another proof,that those people are not russians.But postsoviets ruled by kgb mafias.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Genociders legacy.Soviets killed their own soldiers in wave attacks which was no need at all.Another proof,that those people are not russians.But postsoviets ruled by kgb mafias.

They won't give a shit when they had family affected by the Eastern front. They'll continue using it until they won't.

 

[ATP]

They won't give a shit when they had family affected by the Eastern front. They'll continue using it until they won't.

Their families was affected by NKWD and gulags more.If they cared about them,they would hate genociders flag.
They do not care,becouse they are soviet people,not russians.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Their families was affected by NKWD and gulags more.If they cared about them,they would hate genociders flag.
They do not care,becouse they are soviet people,not russians.

You don't understand. When the Nazis invaded Russia and made it a war of extermination that flag was legitimised to those people thanks to a foreign invasion. Their own government terrorised them but the Nazis wanted them exterminated.

 

[gral]

Off-topic, but which countries have ideal borders from a geographical perspective? I'm trying this into the concept of natural borders here:

South America - most of Brazil's borders were fixed by using natural features, and many of the other countries in the region also have fixed borders based on terrain features.

 

[Vaermina]

She was there because she plays basketball there during the off season, and she was detained for having cannabis oil.

And yes she has.

Meaning this is 100% her own damn fault.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Why would Ukraine do this?!?!?! 😢😭😭😭

 

[ATP]

You don't understand. When the Nazis invaded Russia and made it a war of extermination that flag was legitimised to those people thanks to a foreign invasion. Their own government terrorised them but the Nazis wanted them exterminated.

You do not undarstandt,if you belive in mythical nazis.Germans genocided them - but not worst then NKWD.If they happily serve under red flag with hammer,then they should salute to red flag with swastika,too.
Whatever they are,they are not russians.Many of which actually helped germans on their own wil - becouse they considered soviets as worst enemy.

You should read Solżenicyn book - he once meet in gulag woman who was arrested first by gestapo,then by NKWD.In both cases she was innocent.Difference?
gestapo after tortures let her go when they undarstandt that she really knew nothing.
NKWD after tortures when they undarstandt the same,tortured her more till she agree to be enemy of people and sent to gulag.

 

[Arch Dornan]

You do not undarstandt,if you belive in mythical nazis.Germans genocided them - but not worst then NKWD.If they happily serve under red flag with hammer,then they should salute to red flag with swastika,too.
Whatever they are,they are not russians.Many of which actually helped germans on their own wil - becouse they considered soviets as worst enemy.

You should read Solżenicyn book - he once meet in gulag woman who was arrested first by gestapo,then by NKWD.In both cases she was innocent.Difference?
gestapo after tortures let her go when they undarstandt that she really knew nothing.
NKWD after tortures when they undarstandt the same,tortured her more till she agree to be enemy of people and sent to gulag.

Are you aware of the Barbarossa decree? You're ignoring what a foreign invasion does regardless of how shitty their country is. It unites them against a foreign force and it led that flag to fly over the Reichstag and not anyone elses. Those that remember will pay tribute lest they forget what they lost and it was personal when the Nazis invaded them and wanted to wiped them out as the Slavic subhumans they see them into a war of survival.

I'm all too aware of Solzenicyn. Doesn't change the outcome regardless of their repression. They survived and won despite the odds at a considerable price in blood rather than let Hitler's ambition see them exterminated.

Another Gulag survivor felt differently and fortunately for him got rehabilitated to fight the Nazis. You might know him as Konstantin Rokossovsky. He's also Polish so would you hate him extra?

 

[ATP]

Are you aware of the Barbarossa decree? You're ignoring what a foreign invasion does regardless of how shitty their country is. It unites them against a foreign force and it led that flag to fly over the Reichstag and not anyone elses. Those that remember will pay tribute lest they forget what they lost and it was personal when the Nazis invaded them and wanted to wiped them out as the Slavic subhumans they see them into a war of survival.

I'm all too aware of Solzenicyn. Doesn't change the outcome regardless of their repression. They survived and won despite the odds at a considerable price in blood rather than let Hitler's ambition see them exterminated.

Another Gulag survivor felt differently and fortunately for him got rehabilitated to fight the Nazis. You might know him as Konstantin Rokossovsky. He's also Polish so would you hate him extra?

First - germans.They come from Germany,not mythical naziland.

And Germans after 3 weeks made 400-500km ,destroing 11.000 tanks and million troops for 23.000 german KIA.That mean - german infrantry dyvisions practically do not faught,becouse 20-25km it is what you made on foot when you must cross rivers.
Which mean,that soviet army do not fought but run or surrender.

Then germans start murdering people randomly and keep kolchoz instead of gave people land.So,soviet started to fight - in wave attacks,under barrels of NKWD squads.

I undarstand them,if i was in their shoes i would do the same.But - Nothing to be proud about now.

P.S Rokossowski was soviet,not polish traitor.And he do not feel differently - till Sralin death he always have pistol with him to schoot NKWD if they come arrest him again.

 

[Arch Dornan]

First - germans.They come from Germany,not mythical naziland.

And Germans after 3 weeks made 400-500km ,destroing 11.000 tanks and million troops for 23.000 german KIA.That mean - german infrantry dyvisions practically do not faught,becouse 20-25km it is what you made on foot when you must cross rivers.
Which mean,that soviet army do not fought but run or surrender.

Then germans start murdering people randomly and keep kolchoz instead of gave people land.So,soviet started to fight - in wave attacks,under barrels of NKWD squads.

I undarstand them,if i was in their shoes i would do the same.But - Nothing to be proud about now.

P.S Rokossowski was soviet,not polish traitor.And he do not feel differently - till Sralin death he always have pistol with him to schoot NKWD if they come arrest him again.

You think I don't know? Germans and Nazi were interlinked because they succeeded getting into power and tightening their control it was beneficial to belong as a member.

They had a huge advantage thanks to Stalin's paranoia and purges but then they like many invading armies sent to invade Russia they ran into supply issues and the pissed off Russians counter invaded.

Order No. 227 was not effective Stalin rescinded it within the year.

It comes being born in Russian occupied Poland. Quite the Stalin simp he wouldn't shit on him when Kruschev asked him he got discharged instead I heard.

 

[strunkenwhite]

First - germans.They come from Germany,not mythical naziland.
[...]
P.S Rokossowski was soviet,not polish traitor.

I have to ask: why is it no to naziland, but yes to sovietland?

 

[Arch Dornan]

I have to ask: why is it no to naziland, but yes to sovietland?

He has his biases.

 

[WolfBear]

Russia’s Jews fear resurgent anti-Semitism amid Ukraine war

Jews have fled Russia in droves, but those who remain are scared of a return to the darkest days of discrimination.

www.politico.eu

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Russia’s Jews fear resurgent anti-Semitism amid Ukraine war

Jews have fled Russia in droves, but those who remain are scared of a return to the darkest days of discrimination.

www.politico.eu

When you are stuck in a war and your reaction is to go: "B-but what about meeee?!", then you shouldn't be surprised if people don't like you.

 

[History Learner]

They were quoting what a Russian source said...

An unnamed Russian source, filtered through a Pro-Ukrainian outlet. If I did this in reverse, we both know you'd reject it lol.

 

[History Learner]

"not occupying Ukrainian civilians"? ...? Anyway... Moving past the fact that particular statement wouldn't pass the Turing test, the actual argument goes beyond idiotic. I mean, I guess their were no UK civilian casualties in WW2, since the Germans never occupied British civilians? Large scale bombing and artillery strikes are famous for the fact that they're physically incapable of hitting the wrong target.

Noticeably, you didn't answer the first part precisely because to do such invalidates your argument but you also cut out the part that directly addresses the points you make; you're completely and utterly disingenuous and it's laughably obvious. As I said, and to which you were too much of a coward to answer, what is the party line? Either Russia has inaccurate munitions its running out of or they are these super weapons inflicting tens of thousands of casualties that no one can produce evidence for?

Pick one and only one, but we both know you can't because you would then have to concede my argument is entirely right.

There's just too much wildly blatant misrepresentation here for it to be taken seriously. They're running out of half decent modern missiles, so they're forced to use older and role inappropriate weapons to make up the shortfall. Because they're forced to use shitty weapons, their accuracy sucks. Because their accuracy sucks, they have to fire more to have a decent chance of hitting their target. Because they're firing larger amounts of less accurate fire, they're more likely to cause collateral damage, including civilian casualties. Because the Russian leadership are 10 pounds of shit stuffed into a 5 pound bag, they don't care. Ergo, greater civilian casualties tha and necessary, even if they weren't practising scorched earth policies and indiscriminate targeting on the attack.

You're contradicting yourself into so many knots its hilarious; as I said above, what is the party line? Some how they're running out of missiles but they're firing more missiles to produce all of these casualties yet their accuracy sucks but some how they're making enough of them to fire more of them? It's a contradictory mess and that's exactly why you can never cite anything to prove it. At the end, you even go back on the above by saying scorched earth policies and indiscriminate targeting; okay, where are the bodies? You cited the Blitz earlier, the Brits were able to account for the civilian casualties with actual bodies, why can't Ukraine?

No, it's confirmation bias, and the degree to which you've decided to support an extraordinary partisan view is as confusing as it is sad.

Except for the fact its all supported by evidence, something you've categorically failed to do in this thread with me or anyone because you're entirely disingenuous, simple as. That's why you've from the get go had to use personal attacks; there's no substance to your arguments, you're just a hack.

I mean... That's not what projection is? As for what I personally am hoping to achieve, I'd like for idiots spouting bullshit to shut up, so I can use the thread as a source for details I might otherwise miss, and in a secondary role of showing a different political POV on that info. I don't come here to see a surprisingly clever, trained Russian dancing bear.

Thank you for in two sentences proving just how contradictory your arguments are and for proving my point definitively that you're all projection.

And, as we have all learned from your previous proclamations, all trends, no matter how short or what the surrounding context is, can be extended arbitrarily into the future for however long you'd like to give you the inescapable gospel truth.

And as I have also shown, to you and the other Ukie bros, you're all full of it with no underlying facts to back up what you're saying. Case in point is here you're making a fact free claim, simply because you have nothing else to use. The consistent trendline since at least late May was that the Ukrainians are losing the attrition battle, as all common sense dictates when facing an opponent with a large manpower and industrial base. Western aid, in the words of the Ukrainians themselves, is only enough to supply 10-15% of their needs. Russia has 10x their economic power Pre-War and roughly 4x their population; this is basically comparable to Japan and the United States in the Pacific War.

If you believe the trend lines will reverse, the ball is in your court to elucidate why. That you have not is precisely because you cannot, and is why I make all of you Ukie bros cope and seethe in these threads; I make you realize deep down you've been had and are insincere bull shitters.

Mate... If all you've seen in everything I've said is personal attacks, you've probably got a problem with egocentrisim too, or even narcissistic personality disorder making it hard to separate someone pointing out the things you say are stupid, as opposed to saying you are stupid.

If you think I left because you posted a bunch of links that you were prepared to argue yourself blue in the face to say they supported whatever bs you were on about at the time, well good for you. I hope you pat yourself on the back and treat yourself to a special cookie for your victory. The reality is that the shit you say is so disconnected from reality, and the arguments you make so entirely predicated on that confirmation biased view, I truly CBF to argue you any more.

You're right that I'm not going to change your mind. I can only hope that eventually reality will. In the meantime, despite some deeply unpleasant interactions, and huge amounts of hostility I've been met with elsewhere on the board, congratulations on being the first person I truly felt I had no point talking to, and nothing to gain from such, and thus making the one and only spot on my ignore list!

Again, lies and projection. Case in point with the personal attacks:

Are you seriously trying to suggest that somehow Ukrainian forces teleported to Russian controlled territory, attempted a river crossing back into their own area, and other elements of their own force destroyed them? That's the stupidest take I've heard on any element of this since @Agent23 was trying to guess how many hours the invasion would take if it did happen.

Really? That's pretty rich coming from you, after you tried to claim that the Russian branch of the BBC saying they had positively identified by name and rank 2,300 Russian forces in fact translated to a specific claim that such was the entirety of Russian losses.
Either your own reading comprehension is so abysmal you ought to step lightly accusing others of such, you were deliberately misrepresting the information hoping no one would bother to translate and read it themselves, or quite possibly both.

You're the definition of a cry bully, and that's why you're having to cope and seethe so much now that I continuously show you how much an empty husk you are lol. As for being someone who can't be bothered to argue with me, it's odd how this entire interaction started because you responded to a post of mine that wasn't even directed at you. Same for our last two tangles, so please cut the crap.