Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[WolfBear]

Uh, yeah, and that makes them fucking monsters. People with Down syndrome can still lead productive, happy lives and an increasing number of them do just that as treatments improve (with modern medicine someone with Down's can reasonably expect to live to 60, for instance) - it's not an immediately and incurably fatal birth defect like anencephaly. It's not for nothing that the casualness with which countries like Iceland have exterminated their populace with Down's in the womb has become a talking point in pro-life circles.

For all that eugenics is associated with racial supremacy, not even poor whites (who weren't Italian, Irish, or any other sort of 'white ethnic' - they were WASPs who just happened to be born into poverty in the wrong state) were spared. The Carrie Buck mentioned in that article wasn't any sort of 'white ethnic' and was the plaintiff for a case considered to be one of the worst SCOTUS ever handled, right up there with Dred Scott and Korematsu.

Eugenics is a road straight to hell. Inevitably it leads to the conclusion that human life has no innate worth (certain lives being inherently worth more than others is usually just the stepping stone before this conclusion) and those who are unworthy for one reason or another deserve no respect, therefore they can be screwed over or outright snuffed out for the 'greater good' of society's worthies; and these categories are clearly and consistently very flexible & easily expanded ones as has been demonstrated by eugenicists across states, countries and history.

Yeah, I can understand why pro-lifers would vehemently object to what Iceland and other European countries are doing with eradicating Down's Syndrome.

I know about Buck v. Bell. That case was horrible. That said, though, you don't see eugenic logic in calls for a merit-based immigration policy? Because that also functions in a similar way: As in, those immigrants who have desirable traits get admitted while those without them get denied entry and are thus often condemned to lifetimes of poverty, misery, and/or oppression.

 

[Captain X]

Read up on the involuntary sterilizations of women on Indian Reservations.

That shit is horrendous, happened not that long ago, and the US gov likes to pretend it never happened.

Forced Sterilization of Native Americans | Encyclopedia.com

Forced Sterilization of Native AmericansDuring the late 1960s and the early 1970s, a policy of involuntary surgical sterilization was imposed upon Native American women in the United States, usually without their knowledge or consent, by the federally funded Indian Health Service (IHS), then run...

www.encyclopedia.com

Shit, our neighbors to the north are still doing it.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

...That said, though, you don't see eugenic logic in calls for a merit-based immigration policy?...

This is a completely separate issue.

The first deals death to any deemed 'unfit'. The second is a merit-based admittance to bolster the productive capacity of a specific area.

Why on Earth should the USA allow other countries to dump their destitute onto it? By doing so those countries lighten their burdens at the expense of US culture and credit.

 

[Bacle]

That said, though, you don't see eugenic logic in calls for a merit-based immigration policy? Because that also functions in a similar way: As in, those immigrants who have desirable traits get admitted while those without them get denied entry and are thus often condemned to lifetimes of poverty, misery, and/or oppression.

No, and trying to compare merit-based immigration to eugenics is ridiculous and does your arguments no favors.

You keep trying to nearly tie everything to genes and eugenics; just admit you want to 'perfect' the human race by removing 'undesirables/undesirable traits' through "not-really eugenics, because it's 'voluntary'".

You are using the same logic the Leftists in Canada are using to push to assisted suicide on their veterans and people with serious health issues. They cannot force someone to take MAiD, but they can pressure them in all sorts of ways to make them see suicide as their best or only real option.

The second you open up discourse to trying to 'nudge' voluntary eugenics, you open up avenues for bad actors to use to try to push not-so-voluntary eugenics.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Uh, yeah, and that makes them fucking monsters. People with Down syndrome can still lead productive, happy lives and an increasing number of them do just that as treatments improve (with modern medicine someone with Down's can reasonably expect to live to 60, for instance) - it's not an immediately and incurably fatal birth defect like anencephaly. It's not for nothing that the casualness with which countries like Iceland have exterminated their populace with Down's in the womb has become a talking point in pro-life circles.

It's fucking appalling. Those with Down's syndrome are among the most pathologically lovely people in the world who often make something of their lives. What in God's name give us the right to take that away from them?

Atop all that, I have Aspergers Syndrome. In the world of eugenics, I and very many of my dearest friends should have been murdered in the womb. And if I'd been lucky enough to slip through the net, I'd still be barred from having a family.

Eugenics is big gay and should be left in the past where it belongs alongside lobotomy. It's just control freaks masquerading as scientists.

 

[Jormungandr]

Maps of the Alleged Fortifications Russia is Establishing.



United States Apparently Supports the Transfer of Leopard Tanks to Ukraine.



Romanian DSHK Heavy Machine Guns in Ukrainian Service



Lithuanian Supplied C-UAS Gun Used to Down a Russian Drone.





There was a big nontroversy on Pro-Russian media when it was revealed one of the fifty new a Chevy Tahoes donated to Ukraine by Chevrolet was being used as a government car for a government official in government business and NOT IN THE FRONT LINES (CORRUPTION!!!).

To say the pro-war media and supporters in Russia are on full on copium is an understatement, haha.

 

[WolfBear]

Why on Earth should the USA allow other countries to dump their destitute onto it? By doing so those countries lighten their burdens at the expense of US culture and credit.

The argument is that they will eventually stop being desperate and destitute and in the meantime they can be excluded from welfare.

 

[WolfBear]

Read up on the involuntary sterilizations of women on Indian Reservations.

That shit is horrendous, happened not that long ago, and the US gov likes to pretend it never happened.

Forced Sterilization of Native Americans | Encyclopedia.com

Forced Sterilization of Native AmericansDuring the late 1960s and the early 1970s, a policy of involuntary surgical sterilization was imposed upon Native American women in the United States, usually without their knowledge or consent, by the federally funded Indian Health Service (IHS), then run...

www.encyclopedia.com

Thanks for the link; that was truly awful and evil. That said, though, still no mention of advocacy in favor of forcibly sterilizing Jews, Italians, Slavs, et cetera en masse in the US (unlike in Nazi Germany) in the early 20th century.

No, and trying to compare merit-based immigration to eugenics is ridiculous and does your arguments no favors.

I'm not sure that it's ridiculous. If one believed that the descendants of underperforming immigrants would be successful, then one would also support letting them into the country, no?

 

[Bacle]

Thanks for the link; that was truly awful and evil. That said, though, still no mention of advocacy in favor of forcibly sterilizing Jews, Italians, Slavs, et cetera en masse in the US (unlike in Nazi Germany) in the early 20th century.

So because it's just the poor red woman on the res getting sterilized, it doesn't count?

Do we need to go back to castrating male slaves as well, or even more examples?

I'm not sure that it's ridiculous. If one believed that the descendants of underperforming immigrants would be successful, then one would also support letting them into the country, no?

It's not about what their decendants 'might' be, but rather that they did not meet the criteria for citizenship, or did not bother to go through the proper process to get citizenship.

 

[WolfBear]

So because it's just the poor red woman on the res getting sterilized, it doesn't count?

No, it counts. I'm simply saying that he previously explicitly invoked Italians, Jews, Slavs, et cetera and couldn't find support for those specific examples.

It's not about what their decendants 'might' be, but rather that they did not meet the criteria for citizenship, or did not bother to go through the proper process to get citizenship.

But why should the criteria for citizenship be so high? And for that matter, why not give them the option of staying here but without citizenship?

 

[Bacle]

No, it counts. I'm simply saying that he previously explicitly invoked Italians, Jews, Slavs, et cetera and couldn't find support for those specific examples.

Stop trying to dodge this shit by trying to play devil's advocate; the eugenicist positions you keep taking and trying to argue technicalities on are disgusting

You try to play the cool, but I've been around the type who like to use questions like this to push leftist eugenicist shit before.

And frankly you are glowing Chernechov blue right now.

But why should the criteria for citizenship be so high? And for that matter, why not give them the option of staying here but without citizenship?

For the same reasons the Russians currently invading Ukraine should not be allowed to keep the areas they have tried to steal from Ukraine.

 

[WolfBear]

And frankly you are glowing Chernechov blue right now.

Elaborate, please.

For the same reasons the Russians currently invading Ukraine should not be allowed to keep the areas they have tried to steal from Ukraine.

How exactly are these two situations in any way comparable? One involves peaceful migrants and one involves an armed state conquering the territory of another armed state.

 

[WolfBear]

Ukrainians don't want to become Russian citizens; if they could, they could easily move to Russia. In contrast, people who want to immigrate to the US and the West do want to become Western citizens. They actually want to live under Western rule, in contrast to Ukrainians, who certainly don't want to live under Russian rule. So, it's a false analogy.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Ukrainians don't want to become Russian citizens; if they could, they could easily move to Russia. In contrast, people who want to immigrate to the US and the West do want to become Western citizens. They actually want to live under Western rule, in contrast to Ukrainians, who certainly don't want to live under Russian rule. So, it's a false analogy.

Correction, they want to gain all of the benefits that come from being in the US, but don't want to adopt our culture. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

If we let it continue, this country will die. Maybe not the USA, but it will no longer be a land of opportunity. It will become a land of destitution.

 

[WolfBear]

Correction, they want to gain all of the benefits that come from being in the US, but don't want to adopt our culture. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!

If we let it continue, this country will die. Maybe not the USA, but it will no longer be a land of opportunity. It will become a land of destitution.

The Hispanics/Latin Americans in the US appear to adopt US culture pretty well, based on my own personal experience.

 

[Agent23]

Of course it will get ignored. The people who are doing this know exactly what they're doing and don't care what anyone else has to say about it. If anything it might just give them some amusement that this person thinks anything he says actually matters.

Shit, even when countries leave, it doesn't matter, because the same people are still running that country. The UK left, and it hasn't made a lick of difference, because they're still importing "diversity," still arresting people for wrongthink on social media, still ignoring rape gangs, and are still acting like a bunch of Nazis.

Yeah, and your Ukraine buddies are fighting this war in part because they want to join the EU and because they think that the streets will be paved in gold and the median salary will go up to 5k Euros a month....

 

[Captain X]

They're fighting this war because they didn't want to be a Russian puppet, and Russia just couldn't stand to not control them. It will forever be on Russia that they invaded Ukraine and started that fight, Vatnik. If you don't like that, put me on ignore again.

 

[Agent23]

They're fighting this war because they didn't want to be a Russian puppet, and Russia just couldn't stand to not control them. It will forever be on Russia that they invaded Ukraine and started that fight, Vatnik. If you don't like that, put me on ignore again.

You do realize Euromaidan got triggered because the Ukraininas were pissed that their government was not getting closer to the EU and because Yanukovych was stonewalling and trying to renegotiate the EU-Ukraine association agreement, right?

I mean, the name kinda-sorta HINTS AT IT IF NOTHING ELSE!

Oh, yeah, you don't, because you are not actually from here and know jack shit about the actual situation...

 

[Captain X]

You do realize that Russia got triggered because Ukraine wouldn't let itself be a puppet, right? Oh, right, you thought all of that was just propaganda up until the invasion actually happened and now you dance on the graves of Ukrainians.

In any case, fuck off and stop derailing my thread with your Russian propaganda, Vatnik.

 

[Agent23]

You do realize that Russia got triggered because Ukraine wouldn't let itself be a puppet, right? Oh, right, you thought all of that was just propaganda up until the invasion actually happened and now you dance on the graves of Ukrainians.

In any case, fuck off and stop derailing my thread with your Russian propaganda, Vatnik.

Learn to think more than one step ahead and do actually do research that does not involve reading garbage on Twitter or CNN, you overly emotional,easily manipulable and miopic pawn.
With friends like you, the right hardly needs enemies.

You were the guy that got triggered because I reminded you that the scum in the EU and it's Ukrainian fanclub kicked this off.