Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Marduk]

Russians should learn a thing or two from the Israelis in regards to this, frankly!

Israelis do not have a delusion that Palestinian Arab Muslims are just Jews confused by western liberal propaganda to get out of.

 

[WolfBear]

Israelis do not have a delusion that Palestinian Arab Muslims are just Jews confused by western liberal propaganda to get out of.

So, that's two things to learn from the Israelis:

1. Breed much more. And I mean the Slavs, not the Chechens.
2. Stop treating Ukrainians as Russians who are brainwashed by Western propaganda.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Yep, just a few NATO trainers lol.



If Italy wants to expel NATO forces from its territory, it's presumably capable of doing this. France withdrew from NATO's integrated military command structure in or around 1966, after all. But Italy shouldn't complain about the subsequent loss of jobs in the relevant Italian region afterwards. Military bases produce jobs for locals, after all.

You do know that at best all the jobs you create are largely for US citizens or the few privileged who know English right?

The locals benefit little if at all.

And as simply put it by @Zachowon the trade off is that we are a likely target.

And if Italy ever considers leaving French style or actually leaving NATO the first thing is going to happen is either a "soft coup" like what happened to Berlusconi when he basically refused to bomb Libya or a Brazilian style election.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Ps : sorry I didn't reply to you all but is not because I don't like engaging in meaningful and challenging debates (to the contrary, it is like one of the main reasons I joined and I am staying in the Sietch) but my father is taking me to court in Brazil today so I will not be here until 8:00 PM Italian time at least.

We will try to find an agreement through a mediator before even starting an actual court case but this is the bastard who blasphemously slandered my mother accusing her of lying about her cancer.

So I am not very hopeful but certainly not anxious.

 

[Marduk]

You do know that at best all the jobs you create are largely for US citizens or the few privileged who know English right?

The locals benefit little if at all.

And as simply put it by @Zachowon the trade off is that we are a likely target.

A target for what exactly?
It's not like NATO isn't helping with Italy's actual, rather than hypothetical security problems.

NATO Operation Sea Guardian returns to Western Mediterranean

CARTAGENA, Spain – For the first time this year NATO's Operation Sea Guardian Task Group (OSGTG) set sail to patrol the waters of the western Mediterranean Sea on March 9. Portuguese offs...

mc.nato.int

https://spectator.clingendael.org/pub/2018/4/_/pdf/CS-2018-4-drent.pdf

The usual suspects are not happy as you can see, and they even list what NATO does:

NATO does bring specific capabilities to the table with deploying for example special forces, submarines, maritime patrol aircraft, and E-3 airborne early warning aircraft.
‍‍

And if Italy ever considers leaving French style or actually leaving NATO the first thing is going to happen is either a "soft coup" like what happened to Berlusconi when he basically refused to bomb Libya or a Brazilian style election.

I think we're really getting into political fiction territory here. First off, Brelusconi had plenty enough reasons to lose elections without Libya, and for bombing Libya itself, it's not like Italy is a huge air power that France and USA couldn't do it without. Also oh the irony that you are pinning that on nebulous NATO rather than France, the other questioning NATO member, which was driving this intervention, but hey, that would fail to drive the "NATO bad" narrative.

 

[Megadeath]

You do know that at best all the jobs you create are largely for US citizens or the few privileged who know English right?

The locals benefit little if at all.

And as simply put it by @Zachowon the trade off is that we are a likely target.

And if Italy ever considers leaving French style or actually leaving NATO the first thing is going to happen is either a "soft coup" like what happened to Berlusconi when he basically refused to bomb Libya or a Brazilian style election.

A "likely target" for what? Small scale wars, all the way up to the sad play by Russia for Ukraine, are a total non-starter against any NATO member. You can't just try and quickly and quietly gobble up your neighbour when it means that you're suddenly at war with most of the developed world. So for literally 100% of modern conflicts, NATO bases reduce the probability of being a target.

Hypothetical WW3 scenarios? Yeah... I'm sure if either Russia or China get crazy enough to decide to push the doomsday button they'll take a moment to say "Actually, Italy just recently pulled out of NATO. Sure they're still EU, still totally a part of the "western" social, political and economic bloc, still totally inimical to our world view and goals, still an unaligned military with meaningful strength... But let's just ignore them. Retarget those missiles. Hell, go the extra mile and make sure that none of that radiation goes floating off onto them." That is exactly what they'd think.

NATO bases don't make Italy a target. The fact that they speak neither Russian nor Chinese makes them a target, in the only kind of conflict where it doesn't directly and massively benefit them.

As for the local economic value of the bases; who's food do they eat? Who delivers that food? Who runs the bars they visit? When they're on leave, who's tourist destinations do they visit? Who owns the housing off base personnel families rent? If you think the economic advantage is limited to however many english speakers work on base, you're as clueless economically as you are geopolitically and militarily.

 

[Zachowon]

You do know that at best all the jobs you create are largely for US citizens or the few privileged who know English right?

The locals benefit little if at all.

And as simply put it by @Zachowon the trade off is that we are a likely target.

And if Italy ever considers leaving French style or actually leaving NATO the first thing is going to happen is either a "soft coup" like what happened to Berlusconi when he basically refused to bomb Libya or a Brazilian style election.

Do you know how many English speakers ran places off base in Korea? Not a lot and we have like 5 or 6 bases there.
You would basically destroy the local economy of those cities by getting rid of the US base

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Do you know how many English speakers ran places off base in Korea? Not a lot and we have like 5 or 6 bases there.
You would basically destroy the local economy of those cities by getting rid of the US base

Shit...dozens of bases and camps when I was in the ROK. A lot of the smaller ones got turned over to the ROK Army and we consolidated to larger posts and southward off the DMZ.

 

[WolfBear]

Putin apparently going full-Stalin!

Putin's Military Forces Likely Shooting Retreating Russian Soldiers, Says UK intelligence

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday endorsed the evacuation of civilians from parts of Ukraine's southern Kherson region, saying that the civilian population should not suffer during the most dangerous activities in the area. However, Ukraine has said that the evacuations include the...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Putin apparently going full-Stalin!

Putin's Military Forces Likely Shooting Retreating Russian Soldiers, Says UK intelligence

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday endorsed the evacuation of civilians from parts of Ukraine's southern Kherson region, saying that the civilian population should not suffer during the most dangerous activities in the area. However, Ukraine has said that the evacuations include the...

finance.yahoo.com

suuuure he is.

 

[WolfBear]

suuuure he is.

Shooting retreating soldiers is what Stalin did. "In the Soviet Army, it takes more courage to retreat than to advance!" -- Joseph Stalin.

 

[Zachowon]

Shit...dozens of bases and camps when I was in the ROK. A lot of the smaller ones got turned over to the ROK Army and we consolidated to larger posts and southward off the DMZ.

Yeah we have about 5 or 6 of them

 

[Bacle]

Well, supposedly the Russian's have been using Chechen's as blocking divisions for a while, going back to when they first started losing momentum in the drive for Kyiv.

It's why the Chechen's are able to be Tictoc warriors; most of the time the only people they shoot are 'deserters'; Mariupol was a notable exception to this.

 

[WolfBear]

Well, supposedly the Russian's have been using Chechen's as blocking divisions for a while, going back to when they first started losing momentum in the drive for Kyiv.

It's why the Chechen's are able to be Tictoc warriors; most of the time the only people they shoot are 'deserters'; Mariupol was a notable exception to this.

The Virgin Chechens vs. the Chad Ukrainians lol!

 

[WolfBear]

Anatoly Karlin (@powerfultakes)

Perhaps what will personally irk me most if Russia loses is that those who were right will be so for mostly wrong & idiotic reasons.Virgin "muh GDP & manpower differentials" vs. Chad "plucky Azov freedom fighters will prevail against Russian fascist tyranny & liberate Crimea."

nitter.1d4.us

 

[WolfBear]

US and NATO see peace talks between Ukraine and Russia only if Ukraine liberates Kherson, says La Repubblica

The United States and NATO see the start of peace talks between Ukraine and Russia only if Ukraine’s army takes control of Kherson, the battle for which has both strategic and diplomatic significance, Italian newspaper La Repubblica wrote on Nov. 7.

news.yahoo.com

 

[WolfBear]

 

[Megadeath]

Now now, that's just childish and demeaning. Statistically speaking, the gays have never tried to genocide anyone.

 

[ATP]

The so-called homo sovieticus, today's euroticus. Popularly called the liberal opposition. In reality, they are a bunch of colonial sergeants ready to serve any foreigner because Poland is savages.
No, this is not a joke, they really have such a bent mentality. They consider themselves fighters for liberation from the PiS dictatorship, in fact they would be the first to introduce it in Poland again.
In terms of behavior, they are no different from the Russians, which is not surprising at all, many of them are descendants or further living members of the Red elite.

Just so.descendents of people who wonted "englihted" us using soviet bayonets.
On another topic - polish journalist,Rafał Ziemkiewicz,claim that american deep state decided to destroy Moscov,becouse they break their agreement.
Optymist - USA deep state would just try to find another putin to made another agreement.Which Moscov would break again,such is nature of the beast.

 

[WolfBear]

Optymist - USA deep state would just try to find another putin to made another agreement.Which Moscov would break again,such is nature of the beast.

The real victory would be to secure Moscow for the GAE. That way, Russians could finally become proud GAE-Lords. And the US would have an even better geopolitical position against China that way.