History Learner
Well-known member
Hence why I said cut off foreign aid, same as we do with other nations. Without that, Israel will be forced to concede to 1967 borders, whether it wants to or not.
Israel 🇮🇱 State of Israel Thread
- Thread starter 49ersfootball
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Hence why I said cut off foreign aid, same as we do with other nations. Without that, Israel will be forced to concede to 1967 borders, whether it wants to or not.
Israel has nukes now, they didn't in 67.
Any attempt to attack Israel with conventional military forces by thier neighbors will see those nations turn to radioactive glass long before they can 'drive the Jews into the sea'.
That is literally a thing. Hate to use wikipedia, but there were literally Jewish collaborators. Traitors to their own people.
Judenrat - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
It is probably best not to say "elites" like he did. I am pretty sure the traitors came from all walks of life.
Soros was one of them, and helped hunt down his own people.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
It is a thing; but the issue is that he was trying to use it to demonize all Jews, to help justifiy why they should be kicked out of Israel.That is literally a thing. Hate to use wikipedia, but there were literally Jewish collaborators. Traitors to their own people.
Judenrat - Wikipedia
It is probably best not to say "elites" like he did. I am pretty sure the traitors came from all walks of life.
Soros was one of them, and helped hunt down his own people.
I am pretty sure he isn't. I could tell he was being rather specific in his language. He literally said, "elites".
Also, I am pretty sure it is more him being angry at his nation being unjustly blamed for actions it did not commit. People tend to get defensive when people do that.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Unjustly? As Bear Ribs pointed out earlier, Poland expelled its Jewish population and confiscated their property multiple times after WWII, all the way into the late 60s. Israel is perfectly justified in trying to get the value of the property that was stolen from Polish Jews returned to the victims, or their heirs.
That was the literal communist puppet regime, you know the people who sided with foreigner invaders that murdered poles? This was literally an occupational government, it is absurd to blame Poland for what a collaborationist government did. It would be as absurd to blame Norway for Vidkun Quisling or France for the actions of the Vichy regime.
So, no I do not think Poland should pay a single cent, and I think Israel is just trying to unjustly force reparations for what isn't their fault. And really, I am starting to understand why @ATP is getting so angry. His country is being held liable for the actions of a traitorous puppet regime, one that murdered actual Polish heroes like Witold.
And Poland was literally doing the same thing literally every other country was at the time, and they eventually changed their tune- unlike seemingly every other country (at least from what I read). And the second was Germany expelling Jews, not Poland, and Poland not wanting a refugee crisis*.
edit: And as your source says it was literally the Communist government, doing it for communist reasons. Again, why should free Poland be held responsible for the actions of an imposed authoritarian regime? *Which is still pretty messed up, they were Polish citizens, but unless it is a mistake that you posted this article (and meant to post another) I think it is unfair to castigate Poland for doing what many nations quite shamefully did- like my own nation or the USA.
edit2: So in short, I don't think there is any justification given that this isn't the fault of the Republic of Poland given the Communist regime was illegitimate by any reasonable metric.
edit3: If you want to continue this debate, we can ask to get it moved. I think there is actually something worth debating here in the difference between our opinions, for instance we both apportion blame differently it seems. Anyways going to bed, need to look at this with fresh eyes.
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Certain parties with a liking for apocalyptic prophecies would surely love to see a nuclear war in the middle east.
Anyone who has the will and ability to force Israel into indefensible borders has both a will and ability to make Israel have no borders at all. A country or coalition that does one but has no interest in another is a purely theoretical construct, no one in the region is interested in acting like that.
Hence nukes would fly.
The real problem in this is that the crazy black hole of communist economics has exploited everyone it got its hands on. It exploited everyone in all sorts of ways through all of its existence. In the grand scheme of things, most of all, Poles themselves. Unfortunately it didn't invest the spoils nor store them into some sort of dragon-like hoard that could be used by its inheritors to settle any remotely reasonable claims, instead they left a crappy, wasteful economy that cannot work without exploiting anyone, and lots of rusty crap of limited utility.
And now that this is somewhat fixed up, by the work of Polish taxpayers, one set of victims of communist failure demand compensation from other victims of it from their pocket, because fuck you. It's telling that back then people even pretended to be Jews to be expelled, tells you about what staying meant.
Poland should tell them they will get their compensation the next day after Poland gets its compensation from Moscow.
Forced how exactly?
The basic problem there is that what you are demanding from them is worse than anything you could do to them for refusing.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
And well Israel isn't all that dependent on Foreign Aid the stuff we send them falls under the nice to have but not absolutely needed category. And to put it bluntly most of that money ends up spent in the US anyways
And the second the US pulls aid from Israel is the second Putin steps in to fill the gap.
King Arts
Well-known member
But many of those who did collaborate with Nazis LIKE SOROS are part of the current western liberal elite. The man is a billionaire who funds politicians I don't know what could make the man more elite or privaleged(he privalege ironic)That is literally a thing. Hate to use wikipedia, but there were literally Jewish collaborators. Traitors to their own people.
Judenrat - Wikipedia
It is probably best not to say "elites" like he did. I am pretty sure the traitors came from all walks of life.
Soros was one of them, and helped hunt down his own people.
Also Israel won't be destroyed if America or no one supports it, they have nuclear weapons their borders are safe. Now it would hurt them because instead of getting free conventional weapons they'd have to pay for it, which means they would be less wealthy in the civillian economy but they won't become a 3rd or even 2nd world nation cause of it.
History Learner
Well-known member
Which is utterly false, because such a framework does exist and has existed for decades; even Hamas in 2008 signaled it was open to a peace deal and in 2017 altered its charter to endorse a 1967 style settlement. Even ignoring that, what you are saying makes no sense because Israel has the nuclear monopoly in the Middle East and thus cannot be forced to cease to exist as you assert if it does come to terms on a fair basis with its neighbors.
They lived with Pre-1967 borders for nearly 20 years, there is no reason they can't again because clearly they could live with those borders. If they refuse to, see above; without American aid the cost would be far too much for them to bare very quickly and they will either fold or cease to exist as an entity when the IDF dissolves under unsustainable casualties. Even without that, economic pressure would be effective as it was in the case of South Africa.
I see you are ignoring the nukes and the fact Israel is on decent terms with Russia as well as the US, snd Russia ain't trying to pressure them over the Palestinians shit.
And your appeals will not work with a Russian crowd, no matter how many woke BDS idiots there are in the US.
History Learner
Well-known member
Didn't ask, don't care. All you need do is cut off foreign aid here in the U.S. and Israel goes bye bye if they don't come to a deal.
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Aka you are doing your 50¢ Army job for the CCP trolling about this, good to know.
History Learner
Well-known member
Shouldn't I be shilling for Israel then lol? They do pass along U.S. military data to the Chinese after all and participate in the Belt and Road initiative. But do continue defending a regime that has no problem fucking you over for absolutely nothing in return.
Oh yes, those old saws, surprised you didn't try to bring up the USS Liberty as well while trying to stir up tensions between the nations.
Hope Xi's paying you well, or maybe it's Hamas that pays you to shill like this.
History Learner
Well-known member
Funny you give no one else but Israel a pass on this, and you have no trouble stirring up tensions between the nations in any other context. Why is Israel special? You've resorted to personal attacks because you realize how incoherent your defense of them is, so your only option is to avoid the subject.
How much is Tel Aviv paying you lol?
No, my defense of Israel is more about it's people than it's gov, and I know what you want would kill many of them.