@Bacle, I think the big issue is that you are arguing morality, they are arguing tactics. It's a fair point to say that removing statues just encourages the Left to go crazier. You are basically talking past people.
But
@LordsFire, let's pretend the Left wouldn't be encouraged or discouraged by the removal of the statues. Would you support removing them?
The problem is, the issue can not be solved 'tactically', because they've already lost on this issue strategically.
Chosing to make the Confederacy and it's symbols the hill they die on is a fools move. That is what I keep trying to get across, but they don't want to hear it, because 'muh heritage' and 'it doesn't mean what it represents'.
People will come out to defend Washington, Lincoln, and most other symbols, because those symbolize our country and what it/we aspire to be.
Confederate symbols still means the same thing it did when it was made, no matter how many excuses people make. No one should aspire to be like, or look up, Confederates, as the CSA was the very antithesis of what America was supposed to be.
They are entitled under the 1st to keep Confederate symbols in their private residence and have them at private functions. They are not entitled to a public or government that condones the symbols in the public sphere. The Far-Left haven't stopped at Confederate symbols, you are right, and I condemn them all the time for that.
what I don't think you get and what the rest of us are trying to explain to you is this.
The people we are bitching about fundamentally do not share your value system. At all, their goal is a fundamental leveling of the economy, culture and history and human nature itself in yet another vainglorious attempt at creating a utopia on earth. Every thing they do is in service to this goal.
They fundamentally do not value freedom or stability and in fact distain both. You can not compromise with them, you can not reason with them because they are fantatics who are convinced their in a holy crusade and that you are fundamentally evil for disagreeing with them. They will not only murder you and every one you love and care about but they will do so gleefully and sleep soundly after torturing you slowly to death.
These are not normal political times, this is a survival situation. We can not afford to give any ground because that will end with all of us dead or in a gulage.
First, thank you for at least acknowledging I do not share the value system of the Far-Left, simply because I do not agree with people on the issue of Confederate symbology.
I know very well what the Far-Left is about and how things seem from their side. These are not normal political times, you are right.
But I also know doubling down on defense of Confederate symbols in these times is like defending an abandoned septic plant while the enemy is trying to sack your whole capital.
We do not have infinite resources, time, or political power to utilize to keep the left from destroying this country completely; using any of that on the legacy/heritage of the Confederacy is likely a serious waste of resources.
If we were dealing with sane political opposition, I'd say each local community should have a plebiscite about statues/monuments on public land. If I was in a community with one of those statues (I've never lived south of the Great Lakes in my adult life, so I'm not), I'd look into the history of the individual or organization the monument was about, and make my decision based on that research.
This is basically taking statues down by similar means to how they're put up. Even if I think a given statue should stay up, if the vote is to take it down, it goes down. The battle to be fought at that point is convincing people why it shouldn't be taken down, not trying to keep it up in spite of having lost the argument in the public discourse.
I would prefer this get down to the local level as well when it comes to monuments.
I won't morn any Confederate symbology that is taken down, but it really should be a local/state level thing.
The Confederate-named bases are an exception because the are Federal property, and represent the US military to our allies as well as our own people. Something like that should not be named after those who fought against the United States, to keep their fellow man in servitude.
So by that standard white guilt is real as we are living symbols of atrocities and they can't be washed away?
No, and that is one of the stupidest 'gotcha's' I've ever heard.
Being shunned for conciously chosing to honor Confederate symbols is not the same thing as being shunned for your skin-color, you nitwit.
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