Confederate Flags banned in the Military

[Sailor.X]

We have already seen that line used to destroy the statues of other things like jefferson and other founding fathers its going to be used against all of our history, and in fact already is.

Given what a lot of those people who fought in the Civil War on the Confederate side got up to right after reconstruction began. Fuck them. They don't deserve any honor or recognition. They were terrorists to the black community from 1866 right into the 1920s.

 

[Husky_Khan]

We have already seen that line used to destroy the statues of other things like jefferson and other founding fathers its going to be used against all of our history, and in fact already is.

Another fun fact... Moses Ezekial, an Ashkenazi Jew, was the one who designed the soon to be removed memorial. He was attending the Virginia Military Institute (the first Jewish student at that institution) at the time of the outbreak of the Civil War and was like sixteen years old when he and 250 other cadets were unfortunately pressed into service during a Union invasion of the nearby Shenandoah Valley and was wounded in action there. After the war he founded Hebrew Schools and classes, became a famous sculptor, war correspondent and internationally recognized for both.

Also.. uhhh... as a personal aside, he fathered a daughter with his biracial maid when he was like... fourteen years old. They apparently lived together off and for some time after that with her often visiting Italy. Alice meanwhile married an African-American named Daniel Williams who worked as a Surgeon for the Freedmans Bureau, and later founded the first non-segregated hospital in the United States and the first nursing school for American Blacks.

"Authorized in March 1906, former Confederate soldier and sculptor Moses Jacob Ezekiel was commissioned by the United Daughters of the Confederacy in November 1910 to design the memorial. It was unveiled by President Woodrow Wilson on June 4, 1914, the 106th anniversary of the birth of Jefferson Davis, the President of the Confederate States of America."

LoL and? What durr Wikipedia sez? This is the standard for schooling nowadays.

 

[Zachowon]

It is a statue in Arlington to say "hey we fixed things after"
Said argument of "cofnederate!!" For Jefderson, Washington both taken down

 

[Bacle]

Another fun fact... Moses Ezekial, an Ashkenazi Jew, was the one who designed the soon to be removed memorial. He was attending the Virginia Military Institute (the first Jewish student at that institution) at the time of the outbreak of the Civil War and was like sixteen years old when he and 250 other cadets were unfortunately pressed into service during a Union invasion of the nearby Shenandoah Valley and was wounded in action there. After the war he founded Hebrew Schools and classes, became a famous sculptor, war correspondent and internationally recognized for both.

Also.. uhhh... as a personal aside, he fathered a daughter with his biracial maid when he was like... fourteen years old. They apparently lived together off and for some time after that with her often visiting Italy. Alice meanwhile married an African-American named Daniel Williams who worked as a Surgeon for the Freedmans Bureau, and later founded the first non-segregated hospital in the United States and the first nursing school for American Blacks.



LoL and? What durr Wikipedia sez? This is the standard for schooling nowadays.

It is a statue in Arlington to say "hey we fixed things after"
Said argument of "cofnederate!!" For Jefderson, Washington both taken down

It's called the context that matters as to why it should not be in Arlington, and why people like @Sailor.X feel that Reconstruction allowed former Confederates to still terrorize the newly freed black slaves.

Then again, those who keep coming to the defense of Confederate monuments don't tend to like to talk about the terror former Confederates perpetrated under the Jim Crow Laws and pushing the Lost Cause mythology.

Context matters, and the context of these sorts of things is not just about the soldiers who fought, but what happened after the 'fighting' was done that lead to Jim Crow Laws.

 

[Husky_Khan]

It's called the context that matters as to why it should not be in Arlington, and why people like @Sailor.X feel that Reconstruction allowed former Confederates to still terrorize the newly freed black slaves.

Context matters, and the context of these sorts of things is not just about the soldiers who fought, but what happened after the 'fighting' was done that lead to Jim Crow Laws.

Context matters, coming from the mental midget who ignored the context I posted here:

Actually the United Daughters of the Confederacy opposed the burial of Confederate dead at Arlington from which the Memorial would later be located (sixteen thousand Confederates are buried at Arlington) but President McKinley, a Union Army veteran and other Veterans groups from both sides of the Civil War thought it'd be a good way to show National Reunification and Reconciliation after Northerners and Southerners fought side by side again in the Spanish-American War, including a former Confederate General Joseph Wheeler leading American troops into battle.

The establishment of the Memorial was done by ACMA several years later for the Confederate section of Arlington, not the United Daughters of the Confederacy though they were part of the umbrella of organizations which again included Veterans groups from North and South as well as gaining financial and moral and political support from Presidents William Taft, Theodore Roosevelt and a leading Catholic philanthropist named Thomas Ryan among many others. This support was again due to the idea of reconciliation and reunification.

With a throwaway line he copy pasted from Wikipedia.

Then again, those who keep coming to the defense of Confederate monuments don't tend to like to talk about the terror former Confederates perpetrated under the Jim Crow Laws and pushing the Lost Cause mythology.

LOL. Citation needed since you quoted me in the same post. You keep bringing this up and then Cuck out when challenged.

 

[Zachowon]

It's called the context that matters as to why it should not be in Arlington, and why people like @Sailor.X feel that Reconstruction allowed former Confederates to still terrorize the newly freed black slaves.

Then again, those who keep coming to the defense of Confederate monuments don't tend to like to talk about the terror former Confederates perpetrated under the Jim Crow Laws and pushing the Lost Cause mythology.

Context matters, and the context of these sorts of things is not just about the soldiers who fought, but what happened after the 'fighting' was done that lead to Jim Crow Laws.

Context doesn't matter when the same damn reasons are used for statues of fucking Washington.

If it was Republicans relocating it to a proper spot, sure, BUT IT IS FREAKING DEMOCRATS, TAKING DOWN THIER OWJ PREDECESSORS ACTING LIKE IT WAS TH REPUBLICANS. Using it to take down Washington and Jefferson....

Thanks to people like you

 

[Bacle]

Context matters, coming from the mental midget who ignored the context I posted here:



With a throwaway line he copy pasted from Wikipedia.

Your bit doesn't at all change anything, it just tries to obscurifate that the Daughters of the Confederacy was part of the construction of this monument.

Or are you trying to argue the Daughters of the Confederacy weren't basically the female KKK?
"Established in Nashville, Tennessee in 1894, the group venerated the Ku Klux Klan during the first half of the 20th century and funded the construction of a monument to the Klan in 1926."

LOL. Citation needed since you quoted me in the same post. You keep bringing this up and then Cuck out when challenged.

No, but the way so many here ignore the legacy of Jim Crow Laws and who was pushing them (former Confederates) when it comes to defending the Confederacy's monuments/symbols, it is kinda...odd.

 

[Bacle]

Context doesn't matter when the same damn reasons are used for statues of fucking Washington.

If it was Republicans relocating it to a proper spot, sure, BUT IT IS FREAKING DEMOCRATS, TAKING DOWN THIER OWJ PREDECESSORS ACTING LIKE IT WAS TH REPUBLICANS. Using it to take down Washington and Jefferson....

Thanks to people like you

And thanks to people like you going 'need to honor both sides of the fight as soldiers', while ignoring the horrors of Jim Crow those former Confederates perpetrated, these sorts of issues weren't settled decades ago during the Civil Right era.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Your bit doesn't at all change anything, it just tries to obscurifate that the Daughters of the Confederacy was part of the construction of this monument.

Or are you trying to argue the Daughters of the Confederacy weren't basically the female KKK?
"Established in Nashville, Tennessee in 1894, the group venerated the Ku Klux Klan during the first half of the 20th century and funded the construction of a monument to the Klan in 1926."

No, but the way so many here ignore the legacy of Jim Crow Laws and who was pushing them (former Confederates) when it comes to defending the Confederacy's monuments/symbols, it is kinda...odd.

I'm adding context. I thought that was a good thing. I'm sorry if Theodore Roosevelt and Moses Ezekiel and Catholics, Jews, Blacks and Union War Veterans supporting the erection of a Reunification and Reconciliation monument is problematic with you.

The fact your calling them and me supporters of the KKK is kinda... Odd.

Literally no one on this conversation... Well maybe AnimalNoodles, has denied Jim Crow. That's a cowardly strawman red herring.

 

[Bacle]

I'm adding context. I thought that was a good thing. I'm sorry if Theodore Roosevelt and Moses Ezekiel and Catholics, Jews, Blacks and Union War Veterans supporting the erection of a Reunification and Reconciliation monument is problematic with you.

The fact your calling them and me supporters of the KKK is kinda... Odd.

No, just the Daughters of the Confederacy, because they were, and because the Lost Cause mythology they and other former Confederates pushed alongside Jim Crow laws did result in terrorism against blacks in America for decades.

The military removing all things honoring the Confederates from bases and cemeteries is something that should have happened while MLK was alive.

 

[Husky_Khan]

No, just the Daughters of the Confederacy, because they were, and because the Lost Cause mythology they and other former Confederates pushed alongside Jim Crow laws did result in terrorism against blacks in America for decades.

And the context I provided showed the Ku Klux Klan equivalents had broad support in this case. So either they/we all support the Ku Klux Klan or or don't since those the the foundations of your argument. Support of this monument is apparently an endorsement of terrorizing Blacks in your highly educated Wikipinion.

 

[Bacle]

And the context I provided showed the Ku Klux Klan equivalents had broad support in this case. So either they/we all support the Ku Klux Klan or or don't since those the the foundations of your argument. Support of this monument is apparently an endorsement of terrorizing Blacks in your highly educated Wikipinion.

Did you just ignore @Sailor.X and his post, because you want to try to keep up some stupid gatcha attempt on me over this?

Also, a lot of the people in DC were racists at that time, as the KKK being able to March in DC showed, and given Woodrow Wilson resegregated the US military after it had been desegregated before then.

 

[Zachowon]

And thanks to people like you going 'need to honor both sides of the fight as soldiers', while ignoring the horrors of Jim Crow those former Confederates perpetrated, these sorts of issues weren't settled decades ago during the Civil Right era.

I don't agree woth any of them.
But I think the soldiers who had no patt in slavery and the honest efforts the Republicans had should be honored with it.
It isn't the Republicans fault Jim Crow happend.
They were trying to do the right thing, but the dems just went with what they had.
The Republicans didn't want army soldiers being police in the south.

 

[Bacle]

I don't agree woth any of them.
But I think the soldiers who had no patt in slavery and the honest efforts the Republicans had should be honored with it.
It isn't the Republicans fault Jim Crow happend.
They were trying to do the right thing, but the dems just went with what they had.
The Republicans didn't want army soldiers being police in the south.

Because the Republicans bowed to the former Confederates and their sympathizers, and pulled Federal troops too soon, we had decades of Jim Crow in the south and had to use the 101st Airborne to enforce desegregation.

Republicans being soft on Confederate sympathizers and sympathies is a continuing problem (look at how many on the Right still think waving the Star and Bars at NASCAR events is kosher), when the Dems, the one's who actually fought to preserve slavery, have been able to wash their own historical responsibility for slavery down the memory hole.

The removal of monuments to Confederates like this, when they are on public land, should have been done decades ago while MLK was alive, and protecting Confederate 'honor' or 'dignify' should not concern anyone in modern America.

 

[Zachowon]

Because the Republicans bowed to the former Confederates and their sympathizers, and pulled Federal troops too soon, we had decades of Jim Crow in the south and had to use the 101st Airborne to enforce desegregation.

Republicans being soft on Confederate sympathizers and sympathies is a continuing problem (look at how many on the Right still think waving the Star and Bars at NASCAR events is kosher), when the Dems, the one's who actually fought to preserve slavery, have been able to wash their own historical responsibility for slavery down the memory hole.

The removal of monuments to Confederates like this, when they are on public land, should have been done decades ago while MLK was alive, and protecting Confederate 'honor' or 'dignify' should not concern anyone in modern America.

Posse comitatus was created because it was to prevent the south from basically leading a rebellion of guerilla warfare in the south during reconstruction.
If the troops there arnt armed the people have no reason to fear being shot for looking suspicious.

Soldiers who were forced to fight for a cause they probably never even knew about or had no say in, deserve respect.
Same with any Wehrmact that were defending thier nation not Nazi supporters.

The 101st was done due to the insurrection act, and had the president ask the state to stop and they didn't.

With something as large as majority of the southern states, you would basically have half your entire fucking army ok deployments at all time, and during the Civil War the units wernt all federal union troops.
A lot of state units participated.

It would cripple the north to basically patrol and stamp out such acts, or until a southerner took office and stopped it anyway.

You are basically saying "if something has a not so nice past, it should be taken down." Welcome to cancel culture. You just got every statue of the founding fathers taken down

 

[Jormungandr]

Another fun fact... Moses Ezekial, an Ashkenazi Jew, was the one who designed the soon to be removed memorial. He was attending the Virginia Military Institute (the first Jewish student at that institution) at the time of the outbreak of the Civil War and was like sixteen years old when he and 250 other cadets were unfortunately pressed into service during a Union invasion of the nearby Shenandoah Valley and was wounded in action there. After the war he founded Hebrew Schools and classes, became a famous sculptor, war correspondent and internationally recognized for both.

Also.. uhhh... as a personal aside, he fathered a daughter with his biracial maid when he was like... fourteen years old. They apparently lived together off and for some time after that with her often visiting Italy. Alice meanwhile married an African-American named Daniel Williams who worked as a Surgeon for the Freedmans Bureau, and later founded the first non-segregated hospital in the United States and the first nursing school for American Blacks.



LoL and? What durr Wikipedia sez? This is the standard for schooling nowadays.

Wait, he was fucking his maid? How old was she when he knocked her up?

 

[Bacle]

Posse comitatus was created because it was to prevent the south from basically leading a rebellion of guerilla warfare in the south during reconstruction.
If the troops there arnt armed the people have no reason to fear being shot for looking suspicious.

Soldiers who were forced to fight for a cause they probably never even knew about or had no say in, deserve respect.
Same with any Wehrmact that were defending thier nation not Nazi supporters.

The 101st was done due to the insurrection act, and had the president ask the state to stop and they didn't.

With something as large as majority of the southern states, you would basically have half your entire fucking army ok deployments at all time, and during the Civil War the units wernt all federal union troops.
A lot of state units participated.

It would cripple the north to basically patrol and stamp out such acts, or until a southerner took office and stopped it anyway.

You are basically saying "if something has a not so nice past, it should be taken down." Welcome to cancel culture. You just got every statue of the founding fathers taken down

What you don't get, or don't want to get, is SOME CULTURES AND GROUPS DESERVE TO BE CANCELLED.

The Confederacy belongs in the dustbin of history alongside the likes of the Khmer Rouge.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The Confederacy belongs in the dustbin of history alongside the likes of the Khmer Rouge.

lol

 

[Zachowon]

What you don't get, or don't want to get, is SOME CULTURES AND GROUPS DESERVE TO BE CANCELLED.

The Confederacy belongs in the dustbin of history alongside the likes of the Khmer Rouge.

So...the soldiers who were drafted and forced to fight for the south deserve to be treated worse then Whermact in germany?
Woe Bacle, I thought you stood up for those who were over shadowed by the evils that were in charge.

If some can be canceled it opens to all.

 

[Bacle]

So...the soldiers who were drafted and forced to fight for the south deserve to be treated worse then Whermact in germany?
Woe Bacle, I thought you stood up for those who were over shadowed by the evils that were in charge.

If some can be canceled it opens to all.

The Confederacy is not something to be glorified, honored, or given dignity.

Also, had DC gone full Marshal Plan on the former Confederate areas, instead of pussing out and letting Jim Crow become a thing, modern America would have far less racial division left over from slavery and Jim Crow.

As well, since when have I had an issue with removing Confederate monuments; I do not support disinterment, but from what I can tell there are no actual remains in the statue/monument in question.