Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

AmosTrask said:

The US supplies the Ukraine so it doesn't have to deal with Russia directly until its ready to do so

Click to expand...

I am glad you agree with me that the USA is indeed involved, and thus not off topic

AmosTrask said:

Honestly they should have invested in the new safer nuclear reactor technologies.

Click to expand...

all the western nations have been shutting down nuclear power plants because "nuclear bad". despite being the cleanest energy known to man

AmosTrask said:

Those lunatics should be imprisoned in asylums and mandatory deprogramming for the common good.

Click to expand...

The problem is that the government is the absolute worst at deciding who needs to be reprogrammed / eugenicked / sterilized / whatever.
It works better when you actually let natural selection exist.

Cherico said:

We spent 30 years fighting in the sandbox, and are going through a political relinment, and the country is pretty disfunctional and disunified. Were not really in any condition to fight any war right now not until the internal issues are settled.

Click to expand...

I was talking more along the lines of how the military has been pumped full of women who literally can't perform (they have special "women only" standards that are vastly lower than mens). With dangerous consequences (carrier sank because a fire started and instead of putting out the fire they just ran away. men refer to them as princesses due to how spoiled and inept they are in the field. heaven help you if you are supposed to rely on them to have your back in battle).

Then you have latest gen hardware which is not performing as it should due to politically motivated hiring of engineers, as well as rampant graft (russia is not the only country with graft).

You also have the insane design goals like the whole "green army" idea which uses biodiesel instead of gasoline. Local oil production was killed, on purpose, for green agenda. The strategic reserves of oil were emptied, supposedly to alleviate prices but it just got stolen and resold abroad while lining politicians pockets.

The military is vastly under performing on its retention targets. People are quitting / refusing to enlist. The morale is rock bottom after they saw how their own govt betrayed them during their deployment in afghanistan. Or deploys them to guard opium fields and pedophiles in third world countries.

Add in the collapsing economy (wars are won by logistics) and it paints a very ugly picture.

edit: oh and political nastiness like the army teaching CRT and training to identify domestic terrorists (conservatives). While being told not to worry about actual domestic terrorists like antifa

yeah like I said were not going to be able to fight until the internal issues are resolved you just listed a bunch of those internal issues. I am hoping said issues will be dealt with peacefully but realistically, I think the democrats will through the country into a second civil war when it becomes clear everyones fed up with their shit.

mrttao said:

Snip

Click to expand...

I commented on this earlier but deleted it because when I posted the same comment with links to actual reports when it first became public a few years ago. I got reported then banned as transphobic and hateful on Spacebattles.

There is a female major in the marines who was labeled transphobic and is constantly being attacked by the rabid sections of the LGBT community. She met the male recruitment standards and has been in active combat tours until 2018 when she got rotated back to the States teaching new officers. She is still posted there. However meeting the grueling standards had adverse effects on her body. She lost the ability to bear children. The physical and mental stresses of her career destroyed her womb.

Every Marine she's ever served with call her the Iron Bitch, not to her face although she knows. They respect her and would march into hell with her if she asked. The Major is hated because she hates the political bull that resulted in what you're talking about and is very blunt, direct and succinct. She particularly hates those fake soldiers you're speaking of. It doesn't hurt she can project her voice loud enough to drown out those idiots who think drowning you out in their screams mean they've won. I wish I could remember her name it was on TV in 2019. It was on YouTube as well but the channel got fake reported by the "Cancel Culture twits" and was deleted by YouTube.

As to the domestic terrorists there was 40,000 groups on the FBI and Homeland watchlist in 2012. There's probably more now. Antifa, BLM, KKK, Several thousand cults, death worshipping groups, anarchists, the entire color spectrum. Although there is criticism that white groups were handled with kid gloves and allowed more leeway than black, multi racial or LGBT groups. Although this bias is getting better as the older members retire or die. There's a large segment of administration members that remember and agreed with segregation. Or that rabid idiot McCarthy.

AmosTrask said:

Or that rabid idiot McCarthy.

Click to expand...

McCarthy was literally proven right about everything when USSR fell and stuff got declassified.
The KGB literally did infiltrate the universities and the media to demoralize USA, it worked. And the KGB assets were the ones behind the smear campaign against him

AmosTrask said:

As to the domestic terrorists there was 40,000 groups on the FBI and Homeland watchlist in 2012. There's probably more now. Antifa, BLM, KKK, Several thousand cults, death worshipping groups, anarchists, the entire color spectrum. Although there is criticism that white groups were handled with kid gloves and allowed more leeway than other, or multi racial groups or LGBT. Although this bias is getting better as the older members retire or die. There's a large segment of administration members that remember and agreed with segregation. Or that rabid idiot McCarthy.

Click to expand...

I am not talking about some hypothetical watch list, but actual training sessions where they sit down the soldiers in a classroom and go over "dangerous extremist groups to watch out for". And when the soldiers ask "what about antifa and BLM" they flip their shit.

Also it isn't KKK, but ordinary conservatives which they are labeling as terrorists

mrttao said:

1. the west is not democratic, it is full of fake democracies with fake elections. Every western country has
A. fake news
B. heavy censorship
C. arrest people for thought crimes
D. ban political parties for thought crimes. (and call them nazies).

2. Who is "we"? I want the evil union to collapse ASAP. It has brought nothing but ruination to the nations of the west. The world is a far darker place because of the EU

Unfortunately even if it collapses today the damage it did will not be easily fixed. The countless "religion of peace" migrants don't just poof away, the ruined economies do not just magically fix themselves. The demoralized youth does not just magically get remoralized

Click to expand...

1.True - but,being under kgb would be still worst.Ask Bucha residents.
2.EU is falling before 2030,becouse retiring funds have no money - and they could not just kil all emerites.And even if they kill them,they still would not have money for muslims.

ATP said:

1.True - but,being under kgb would be still worst.Ask Bucha residents.

Click to expand...

This is a whataboutism. I didn't say which country was better

mrttao said:

McCarthy was literally proven right about everything when USSR fell and stuff got declassified.
The KGB literally did infiltrate the universities and the media to demoralize USA, it worked. And the KGB assets were the ones behind the smear campaign against him

Click to expand...

Yes. Somewhat. The problem is McCarthy targeted and prosecuted innocents and stoked paranoia that did more damage than the actual KGB saboteurs. McCarthy was playing Russian Roulette with American lives. His actions did nothing but sabotage US security.

AmosTrask said:

Yes. Somewhat. The problem is McCarthy targeted and prosecuted innocents and stoked paranoia that did more damage than the actual KGB saboteurs. McCarthy was playing Russian Roulette with American lives. His actions did nothing but sabotage US security.

Click to expand...

Are you not aware that it was the Democrats who compelled him to release his list of names to the public? He had wanted a closed committee to investigate, because just because a person was a member of the socialist/communist party didn't automatically make them a traitor.

Cherico said:

We spent 30 years fighting in the sandbox, and are going through a political relinment, and the country is pretty disfunctional and disunified. Were not really in any condition to fight any war right now not until the internal issues are settled.

Click to expand...

We're letting Wokeness consume us from the inside while non-Woke Ukraine is kicking ass (though its military also makes some room for non-binary grrrls):

LordsFire said:

Are you not aware that it was the Democrats who compelled him to release his list of names to the public? He had wanted a closed committee to investigate, because just because a person was a member of the socialist/communist party didn't automatically make them a traitor.

Click to expand...

That is a magnificent misrepresentation of the facts there, combined with blame shifting. McCarthy wanted Star Chamber trials and Imprisonment. The opposition could not stop McCarthy so they demanded that those accused be granted a "Trial by a Jury of their Peers." A right guaranteed by the Sixth Amendment to your Constitution. What McCarthy did abided by the letter but not the spirit. Those were not real trials.

Those were Soviet and Mao style show trials. The jurors were handpicked and influenced to vote guilty as McCarthy directed. I recognize a Gods bedammed show trial when I see one amigo. The only difference is that those accused were not summarily executed afterwards.

Edit: I find it morbidly ironic that you support secret trials, sealed evidence, and secret prisons the Star Chamber Courts. One of the main issues that contributed to your Founding Fathers rebelling. Under British Common Law a man has the right to a trial by a Jury of his peers. That the Colonial authorities ignored this was a major grievance against British rule. (Against Parliament to be specific because to be fair King George was legitimately, shitting in public and throwing shit at people, insane. He wasn't ruling anything.) That you see nothing wrong with such tactics tells me everything I need to know about your political leanings.

So let's agree to disagree and drop this topic for the sake of keeping discussions civil.

AmosTrask said:

That is a magnificent misrepresentation of the facts there, combined with blame shifting. McCarthy wanted Star Chamber trials and Imprisonment. The opposition could not stop McCarthy so they demanded that those accused be granted a "Trial by a Jury of their Peers." A right guaranteed by the Sixth Amendment to your Constitution. What McCarthy did abided by the letter but not the spirit. Those were not real trials.

Those were Soviet and Mao style show trials. The jurors were handpicked and influenced to vote guilty as McCarthy directed. I recognize a Gods bedammed show trial when I see one amigo. The only difference is that those accused were not summarily executed afterwards.

Edit: I find it morbidly ironic that you support secret trials, sealed evidence, and secret prisons the Star Chamber Courts. One of the main issues that contributed to your Founding Fathers rebelling. Under British Common Law a man has the right to a trial by a Jury of his peers. That the Colonial authorities ignored this was a major grievance against British rule. (Against Parliament to be specific because to be fair King George was legitimately, shitting in public and throwing shit at people, insane. He wasn't ruling anything.) That you see nothing wrong with such tactics tells me everything I need to know about your political leanings.

Click to expand...

First off, you're mischaracterizing what I've said. McCarthy didn't ask for secret trials, he asked for initial investigations to see if charges should be brought in the first place to be held before names should be released to the public. If sufficient probable cause was found that said members of communist parties were actually up to no good, then the usual trial process could go forward.

Second off, it sounds like you're literally just repeating the propaganda the left has been spewing about McCarthy since he first raised the issue.

So people were subject to Soviet and Mao style show trials, you say. Name some names. Tell me who was put on trial, and tell me what the sentences handed out were.

mrttao said:

This is a whataboutism. I didn't say which country was better

Click to expand...

No,it is realism.We do not decide between Gondor and Mordor,but KGB Mordor and USA Saruman.
So far,Saruman is less evil - and we do not have another choice.
So forgive me,but i would support Ukraine - to not end in another Bucha.

AmosTrask said:

Edit: I find it morbidly ironic that you support secret trials, sealed evidence, and secret prisons the Star Chamber Courts

Click to expand...

I don't. I am almost certain those were lies used to smear him because he actually dare point out that the problem existed.

This is like telling a typical normie democrat you are shocked that they support child rape. Even if their elected officials are secretly doing it, the voter does not actually believe it and thinks it is just a smear.

ATP said:

No,it is realism.

Click to expand...

No, it is whataboutism.
Someone called the western nations democratic. I pointed out that they are fake democracy.

You countered with saying that russia is a less nice place to live. Your counter statement has nothing to do with what I said, and is falsely implying that when I said "the western nations are fake democracies" I actually meant (I didn't) "unlike pure good russia which is a real democracy and a nicer place to live". A classic whataboutism.

To explain whataboutism see this example:
"I think murderers should get death penalty"
"Even if you say that, cannibal child molesters are even worse! Why don't you care about the cannibal child molesters"

this is a whataboutism, it disrupts a conversation with false implications of "if you said X is bad, that means you think worse thing Y is better / good. therefore you are a bad person"

However, in the above example the person who said murder should result in death penalty never actually said that he is ok with cannibal child molesters.
Likewise, when I said the western democracies are fake democracies I never actually said that russia is such a nice good place. I was not even talking in the context of russia at all.

In fact I had actually said earlier that russia and the western nations are all fake democracies. This transition from real democracy to a fake one is a large part of why the western nations are falling so.

mrttao said:

No, it is whataboutism.
Someone called the western nations democratic. I pointed out that they are fake democracy.

You countered with saying that russia is a less nice place to live. Your counter statement has nothing to do with what I said, and is falsely implying that when I said "the western nations are fake democracies" I actually meant (I didn't) "unlike pure good russia which is a real democracy and a nicer place to live". A classic whataboutism.

To explain whataboutism see this example:
"I think murderers should get death penalty"
"Even if you say that, cannibal child molesters are even worse! Why don't you care about the cannibal child molesters"

this is a whataboutism, it disrupts a conversation with false implications of "if you said X is bad, that means you think worse thing Y is better / good. therefore you are a bad person"

However, in the above example the person who said murder should result in death penalty never actually said that he is ok with cannibal child molesters.
Likewise, when I said the western democracies are fake democracies I never actually said that russia is such a nice good place. I was not even talking in the context of russia at all.

In fact I had actually said earlier that russia and the western nations are all fake democracies. This transition from real democracy to a fake one is a large part of why the western nations are falling so.

Click to expand...

You said:
1. the west is not democratic, it is full of fake democracies with fake elections. Every western country has
A. fake news
B. heavy censorship
C. arrest people for thought crimes
D. ban political parties for thought crimes. (and call them nazies).

2. Who is "we"? I want the evil union to collapse ASAP. It has brought nothing but ruination to the nations of the west. The world is a far darker place because of the EU

Unfortunately even if it collapses today the damage it did will not be easily fixed. The countless "religion of peace" migrants don't just poof away, the ruined economies do not just magically fix themselves. The demoralized youth does not just magically get remoralized

Which mean:
1.West is no democratic - to which i agreed
2.You want EU fall now - which mean Moscov victory.Which mean Bucha for everybody.

I only said,that we have choice between two nondemocratic monsters now,but one of them/EU and USA/ would not made Bucha in our homes.
And,that is one of two reasons why i support Ukraine - i knew what Moscov have for me next./other - nations have rights to its own states/

Please use quote boxes for quoted text

ATP said:

2.You want EU fall now - which mean Moscov victory.Which mean Bucha for everybody.

Click to expand...

Facepalm
1. The EU is not the whole of the western world. There is also UK, USA, USA's hat (canadia), australia, and assorted smaller nations.
2. The EU collapsing does not mean russia conquering the world. Russia can't even conquer Ukraine.
3. Russia is not even fighting the EU, it is fighting Ukraine (and losing).
4. The EU collapsing will result in a stronger europe, not a weaker europe. It would be even harder to conquer.

Though to be fair, the UK hasn't really been any better off since it left the EU.

Captain X said:

Though to be fair, the UK hasn't really been any better off since it left the EU.

Click to expand...

it has managed to avoid some of the sillier things that the germans are getting their vassals to do. they are doing about as bad on their own admittedly but there is a better chance for them to course correct without being part of the EU.