Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

Aldarion said:

Not just cowardly enough. There are many in the West who seriously and openly support Russia, for various reasons. These almost certainly will use Russian threat as an excuse to step up their efforts.

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I think that the social tides have changed so there are more people who are willing to call Putin's bluff, for a lot of reasons, and the Russian shills are not having as much 'fun' as they used to, and are forced to rely more on ignoring anything the west says that actually addressing points raised against them.

Bacle said:

I think that the social tides have changed so there are more people who are willing to call Putin's bluff, for a lot of reasons, and the Russian shills are not having as much 'fun' as they used to, and are forced to rely more on ignoring anything the west says that actually addressing points raised against them.

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That - and fact,that idiot Putin do not agree to alliance against China.
China is eating Siberia,and Putin is thinking about Ukraine,Baltic and Poland?
i am from Poland,but - Siberia is more important.

Especially ,that Biden would gave Ukraine,Baltic and Poand to putin if he agreed to alliance.
Becouse Uraine and Baltics helped kill jews/well,they helped/ and Poand not helped,but is full of antisemites anyway.
I bet,that nobody would care in the West when Putin would denazify us/kill 20% of population/

I was supposed to be joking when I kept bringing up all of those Ukrainian Nazis the Russians were nobly trying to De-Nazify.

Husky_Khan said:

I was supposed to be joking when I kept bringing up all of those Ukrainian Nazis the Russians were nobly trying to De-Nazify.

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I think the main question should be whether Lavov was telling the truth. From what I found, his statement is true:

So Israeli foreign ministry can go have an intimate meeting with a certain object.

Aldarion said:

I think the main question should be whether Lavov was telling the truth. From what I found, his statement is true:

Study Suggests Adolf Hitler Had Jewish and African Ancestors | HISTORY

Adolf Hitler may have had Jewish and African ancestors, according to a recent DNA study by Belgian researchers.

www.history.com

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The heading of your article literally uses the term "may have" which in fact is not the phrasing one would use to declare a statement as true.

Love how everyone is basically using the same study and interpreting it differently though.



Regardless that isn't even the thrust of the point which isn't on Hitler Being Jewish as much as him supposedly having Jewish blood is a justification for stating Jews therefore perpetrated the Holocaust on themselves.

CNN said:

“He [Zelensky] puts forward an argument: what kind of Nazism can they have if he is a Jew. I may be wrong, but Hitler also had Jewish blood. It means absolutely nothing. The wise Jewish people say that the most ardent anti-Semites are usually Jews," Lavrov said.

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It's nice to see comedy stand up lines about self loathing Jews being echoed as policy justification in International Diplomacy though.

Aldarion said:

So Israeli foreign ministry can go have an intimate meeting with a certain object.

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Let's hope the Russian Foreign Ministry tells them just that!

Husky_Khan said:

Regardless that isn't even the thrust of the point which isn't on Hitler Being Jewish as much as him supposedly having Jewish blood is a justification for stating Jews therefore perpetrated the Holocaust on themselves.

It's nice to see comedy stand up lines about self loathing Jews being echoed as policy justification in International Diplomacy though.

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Not how I understood the Lavrov's statement, though. He said literally this:

“So what if Zelensky is Jewish. The fact does not negate the Nazi elements in Ukraine. I believe that Hitler also had Jewish blood,” Lavrov said, adding that “some of the worst antisemites are Jews.”

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And when you look at how some powerful Jews act... George Soros is literally antisemite (and antiwhite and anti-everything-sane):

So it is less "Jews literally genocided themselves" and more "being a Jew does not stop one from being an antisemite".

Aldarion said:

Not how I understood the Lavrov's statement, though. He said literally this:

Lavrov: So what if Zelensky is Jewish, even Hitler ‘had Jewish blood’

Attempting to defend claims of need to 'denazify' Ukraine, Russian FM says 'some of the worst antisemites are Jews'; Yad Vashem slams comments as 'false, delusional and dangerous'

www.timesofisrael.com

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I posted what Lavrov literally said twice now. Regardless if its true or now that Hitler had Jewish blood is immaterial to the fact that Lavrov compared Zelensky to Hitler even though I'm assuming Zelensky, unlike Hitler AFAIK, identifies as Jewish. And Lavrov supported his argument by stating, right after stating Hitler is "Jewish" via alleged blood connections, that Jews are the most ardent anti-semites in his arguing justifying DeNazification of Ukraine.

So I'm not sure how it could be understood as anything but Zelensky is Jewish... but he's also either a Nazi or Nazi sympathetic due to his ardent anti-semitism.

And in their response to Israel's protests the Russian Foreign Ministry apparently stated:

Russian Foreign Ministry said:

We paid attention to the anti-historical statements of the Insreali Foreign Minister Yair Lapid, which largely explain the course of the current Israeli government to support the Neo-Nazi Regime in Kyiv.

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So Zelensky, according to the Russian Foreign Ministry, is heading a Neo-Nazi Regime which Israel (and Germany and most of the West ofc) is supporting. And one of the three goals of the Russian Invasion is "DeNazification."

Aldarion said:

So it is less "Jews literally genocided themselves" and more "being a Jew does not stop one from being an antisemite".

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No the Russian FM isn't just alleging Jews can be self loathing and antisemitic, he's stating they can be Nazis. Zelensky is Jewish (AFAIK), and according to Russia he's the head of a Neo-Nazi Regime accord, and he's being compared to Hitler who allegedly had "Jewish Blood."

It's not just Zelensky is "antisemitic" but they're alleging he's a member of a group whose most famous achievement (arguably) is Genociding Jews. If Russia is admitting Zelensky is Jewish, and also comparing him to Hitler, stating the wisest Jews know that some of the worst anti-Semites are Jewish (worse anti-semites then the Nazis?), and the head of a Neo-Nazi Regime that needs to be "DeNazified" then it actually doesn't seem like a leap of logic in stating that its "justification for stating Jews therefore perpetrated the Holocaust on themselves."

Regardless, I hope Russia continues on this angle. It'll be amusing to see Israel's contortion laden responses.

Husky_Khan said:

I posted what Lavrov literally said twice now. Regardless if its true or now that Hitler had Jewish blood is immaterial to the fact that Lavrov compared Zelensky to Hitler even though I'm assuming Zelensky, unlike Hitler AFAIK, identifies as Jewish. And Lavrov supported his argument by stating, right after stating Hitler is "Jewish" via alleged blood connections, that Jews are the most ardent anti-semites in his arguing justifying DeNazification of Ukraine.

So I'm not sure how it could be understood as anything but Zelensky is Jewish... but he's also either a Nazi or Nazi sympathetic due to his ardent anti-semitism.

And in their response to Israel's protests the Russian Foreign Ministry apparently stated:



So Zelensky, according to the Russian Foreign Ministry, is heading a Neo-Nazi Regime which Israel (and Germany and most of the West ofc) is supporting. And one of the three goals of the Russian Invasion is "DeNazification."



No the Russian FM isn't just alleging Jews can be self loathing and antisemitic, he's stating they can be Nazis. Zelensky is Jewish (AFAIK), and according to Russia he's the head of a Neo-Nazi Regime accord, and he's being compared to Hitler who allegedly had "Jewish Blood."

It's not just Zelensky is "antisemitic" but they're alleging he's a member of a group whose most famous achievement (arguably) is Genociding Jews. If Russia is admitting Zelensky is Jewish, and also comparing him to Hitler, stating the wisest Jews know that some of the worst anti-Semites are Jewish (worse anti-semites then the Nazis?), and the head of a Neo-Nazi Regime that needs to be "DeNazified" then it actually doesn't seem like a leap of logic in stating that its "justification for stating Jews therefore perpetrated the Holocaust on themselves."

Regardless, I hope Russia continues on this angle. It'll be amusing to see Israel's contortion laden responses.

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Again, while I do not agree that Zelensky himself is a Nazi, I do not see why being a Jew would prevent one from being a Nazi? Hardly the first time in history that a member of certain ethnicity has adapted an ideology whose goal is to genocide said ethnicity. I could give examples, but that part should go into the derail thread.

Aldarion said:

Again, while I do not agree that Zelensky himself is a Nazi, I do not see why being a Jew would prevent one from being a Nazi? Hardly the first time in history that a member of certain ethnicity has adapted an ideology whose goal is to genocide said ethnicity. I could give examples, but that part should go into the derail thread.

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It's not a matter of 'rules out,' it's a matter of it being an exceptional claim, and thus requiring exceptional evidence.

'He's a nazi!' is, in this day and age, a claim that rarely sees any supporting evidence, much less enough to actually be substantiated. Accusing someone of adhering to an ideology that is almost guaranteed to both reject them and try to kill them, requires much more evidence to be substantiated.

And last I checked, Russia's 'proof' of Ukrainian nazification currently amounts to nothing more than 'that one battalion and its civilian counterparts.' A concerning thing, but to one familiar with Ukraine's history, it's almost surprising there aren't less fanboys of the military that kicked the USSR out of the Ukraine for a while.

So thanks to Lavrov shooting his mouth off, it seems Israel may be providing Iron Dome system to Ukraine in the near future.



Also, Sberbank is getting cut out of SWIFT.


Zelensky is saying that they are seeking full territorial integrity restoration for Ukraine.


Also, Zelensky has a new T-shirt; the Ukrainian Trident does have a profile that matches a T-65 quiet well.

Anyway, I think this is a good read:

I especially like the line, "the worst enemy of the West is West itself".

What if both Putin and Zelensky were World Economic Forum/Klaus Schwab pawns? What if they're both working towards the same goal while only pretending to be enemies?



A draft is a genocide if the people doing the drafting are actually your foe and intend to accomplish your murder by sending you to fight an unwinnable war.

*THASF* said:

What if both Putin and Zelensky were World Economic Forum/Klaus Schwab pawns? What if they're both working towards the same goal while only pretending to be enemies?

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There's a variety of reasons I think this is just a conspiracy theory, but one of the major ones is very simple:

The modern social elite think that war is beneath them, a tool of the past used by more barbaric, primitive peoples than themselves. The 'End of History' has come, and they can resolve all their issues with more elegant and clever means.

LordsFire said:

There's a variety of reasons I think this is just a conspiracy theory, but one of the major ones is very simple:

The modern social elite think that war is beneath them, a tool of the past used by more barbaric, primitive peoples than themselves. The 'End of History' has come, and they can resolve all their issues with more elegant and clever means.

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Look at it from their perspective. If you think war is beneath you, an obsolete relic, then what's the easiest way to remove able-bodied, military-age, high-T fighting men from society who would otherwise be a nuisance and dispose of them?

*THASF* said:

What if both Putin and Zelensky were World Economic Forum/Klaus Schwab pawns? What if they're both working towards the same goal while only pretending to be enemies?

Zelensky: The Puppet Of The World Economic Forum - The True Reporter

We never allow sympathy for others to outshine logical and rational judgment. What’s happening to the people who don’t deserve that in Ukraine is bad. But we have to remind that the state and the government are the biggest threats to peace, prosperity, and humanity that the world has ever seen...

thetruereporter.com

Klaus Schwab turns on a once-promising ‘Young Global Leader’, Vladimir Putin

by WorldTribune Staff, March 11, 2022 Although Vladimir Putin was never an official designee in the World Economic Forum’s “Young Global Leaders” program, WEF founder Klaus Schwab…

www.worldtribune.com

A draft is a genocide if the people doing the drafting are actually your foe and intend to accomplish your murder by sending you to fight an unwinnable war.

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Eh, I think this discounts the fact that Putin may have a terminal illness that is pushing him to try to create his 'legacy' while he still has decent quality of life.

It also seems to ignore the role of the oil deposits found in Ukraine in 2012, which are the main economic impetus for taking Crimea and the Donbass, so as to control access to those deposits.

Also, if Zelenski wanted to genocide most of his young male population, he would not be going to such great lengths to get lots of high-end equipment from allies that will mean fewer of his soldiers die.

I could believe Putin might be using the war remove rivals or opponents from inside Russia's armed forces and domestic security apparatus, given how many generals are getting killed and what happened with the FSB leaks.

*THASF* said:

What if both Putin and Zelensky were World Economic Forum/Klaus Schwab pawns? What if they're both working towards the same goal while only pretending to be enemies?

Zelensky: The Puppet Of The World Economic Forum - The True Reporter

We never allow sympathy for others to outshine logical and rational judgment. What’s happening to the people who don’t deserve that in Ukraine is bad. But we have to remind that the state and the government are the biggest threats to peace, prosperity, and humanity that the world has ever seen...

thetruereporter.com

Klaus Schwab turns on a once-promising ‘Young Global Leader’, Vladimir Putin

by WorldTribune Staff, March 11, 2022 Although Vladimir Putin was never an official designee in the World Economic Forum’s “Young Global Leaders” program, WEF founder Klaus Schwab…

www.worldtribune.com

A draft is a genocide if the people doing the drafting are actually your foe and intend to accomplish your murder by sending you to fight an unwinnable war.

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It would explain why Moscov do not win yet.Even if he belived,that Ukraine would cease to exist and surrender when he attacked,after first 3 days he must undarstandt,that he need win in normal war - which mean,mobilisation and sending reservist to win on corpes of other reservists.

If he did so,he would win by now.But - maybe he really only want to kill russian army and get Donbas - if so,his tactic should work.

Bacle said:

Eh, I think this discounts the fact that Putin may have a terminal illness that is pushing him to try to create his 'legacy' while he still has decent quality of life.

It also seems to ignore the role of the oil deposits found in Ukraine in 2012, which are the main economic impetus for taking Crimea and the Donbass, so as to control access to those deposits.

Also, if Zelenski wanted to genocide most of his young male population, he would not be going to such great lengths to get lots of high-end equipment from allies that will mean fewer of his soldiers die.

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Unless the goal was also to deplete the West's stockpile of weapons to make us vulnerable to attack.

Bacle said:

I could believe Putin might be using the war remove rivals or opponents from inside Russia's armed forces and domestic security apparatus, given how many generals are getting killed and what happened with the FSB leaks.

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Possible. We'll see.

*THASF* said:

Unless the goal was also to deplete the West's stockpile of weapons to make us vulnerable to attack.

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Eh, most of the stuff being sent to Ukraine is stuff that would be of limited use in a full scale, peer-on-peer war between nuclear powers (because the war would go MAD before most of that equipment could be relevant in a fight), or stuff that is already kinda old and would be disposed of anyway in the near future, or stuff that was old Warsaw Pact weaponry that will be replaced with US made gear.

Now some of the gear is the newest stuff (Bayaktars, Switchblades, and Starstreaks), and some even purpose made for this conflict (Shadow Phoenix).

Also, this war is depleting Russian stocks of PGMs and cruise missile like nothing else, and because of sanction, Putin cannot replace those used weapons, or his lost troops, very easily.

*THASF* said:

Possible. We'll see.

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I think that is more likely than Putin playing to the WEF tune.

Putin has his own cult of personality and frankly I expect his time in the WEF (before he left/was ejected) was probably more about trying to co-op it to serve Putin's plans, not the other way around.

*THASF* said:

Unless the goal was also to deplete the West's stockpile of weapons to make us vulnerable to attack.



Possible. We'll see.

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It won't deplete our stockpiles dude.
We have more weapons then we send to Ukraine

Zachowon said:

It won't deplete our stockpiles dude.
We have more weapons then we send to Ukraine

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That’s not what the news outlets have been saying.

The U.S. has provided a third of its Javelin stockpile to Ukraine, as well as 1,400 Stingers, or 25% of the existing supply, Senator Roy Blunt, a Missouri Republican, said at a Senate budget hearing Tuesday.

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They’d better ramp up production. Javelins are always nice to have.