Will the Advent of Drone Warfare bring back the Gun Air Defense

[Zachowon]

And you are assuming all this on the basis of a few photos that are part of a press release?

I mean, you do realize that the people that do that stuff will go out of their way for the releases material to look good and at the same time minimize dsts leaks, and maybe the existence of a trailer is omitted, right?

Because in order for companies to get the contracts they have to be open out anything not classified.
For instance, the Counter Fire radar of the US, here is a press release image of it.
Note, this system is in use.

Trailer

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Because in order for companies to get the contracts they have to be open out anything not classified.
For instance, the Counter Fire radar of the US, here is a press release image of it.
Note, this system is in use.

Trailer

See that system is a failure because it requires relatively expensive missiles to shoot down drones. The only cost effective way of defeating them currently involves bullets

 

[Zachowon]

See that system is a failure because it requires relatively expensive missiles to shoot down drones. The only cost effective way of defeating them currently involves bullets

That is to detect incoming artillery and mortar and locate where it came from so it can ne fired upon.
Patriot is not to shoot down drones either. Avenger cam, but waste of stingers. Thr Army is investing in two new systems.
One uses lasers the other uses bullets

 

[Jormungandr]

Cheap and disposable bots that can be cranked out in the thousands. That is the path.

They would not even be suggesting it unless they made a breakthrough in AI tech the general public knows nothing about. It is not the first time advanced tech was being fielded decades before it is officially revealed.

Yep.

The "cutting edge" stuff being openly revealed now is probably two, three generations behind what's already being perfected/prototyped in DARPA labs; the mainline military stuff now being issued to troops is maybe four or so behind, and civilian stuff? Five or six/old technology that's filtered down to the civilian market.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they have actual fucking terminators walking around in a DARPA lab somewhere. shrug

 

[Zachowon]

AI is no where advanced enough.
That i cam assure you

 

[Jormungandr]

AI is nowhere advanced enough.
That I can assure you

AI what we know of publically.

Again, DARPA probably has all sorts of shit cooking up in labs and such. I'm not discounting any possibilities that they've got AI in development years ahead of the stuff openly known.

Why am I saying this? Historical precedent with pretty much all of America's military technology, especially in the latter half of the 20th, and it's naive not to think they're doing the same thing right now.

 

[Agent23]

AI is no where advanced enough.
That i cam assure you

You don't need A.I. to do what is glorified DSP.

Locking on a target should be as straightforward as detecting it via radar, then plotting where it would be based on its current speed and trejectory.

Artillery and missiles can't exactly dodge, cheap ass drones can.

But you can always look for anomalies on the flight path and assume it is trying to evade, then shoot where it might be.

And given the fragility and size of the drones that are a problem I am skeptical they can dodge that well.

Because in order for companies to get the contracts they have to be open out anything not classified.
For instance, the Counter Fire radar of the US, here is a press release image of it.
Note, this system is in use.

Trailer

And if someone deemed the specifics of the power supply to be something you don't want to divulge, then what?

Also, this technical evaluation is not for the general public, it is for the big brass.

So, yeah, pressing F to doubt.

 

[Zachowon]

You don't need A.I. to do what is glorified DSP.

Locking on a target should be as straightforward as detecting it via radar, then plotting where it would be based on its current speed and trejectory.

Artillery and missiles can't exactly dodge, cheap ass drones can.

But you can always look for anomalies on the flight path and assume it is trying to evade, then shoot where it might be.

And given the fragility and size of the drones that are a problem I am skeptical they can dodge that well.


And if someone deemed the specifics of the power supply to be something you don't want to divulge, then what?

Also, this technical evaluation is not for the general public, it is for the big brass.

So, yeah, pressing F to doubt.

Both are from the official websites of the companies making them.
They may not out the exact generation capabilities.
But thru every document we have, and the knowledge that this thing would be scrapped if it relied upon a external power source as it is supposed to be able to move and fire.

The documents for what it has to fit mentions self powered.

 

[Sailor.X]

Yep.

The "cutting edge" stuff being openly revealed now is probably two, three generations behind what's already being perfected/prototyped in DARPA labs; the mainline military stuff now being issued to troops is maybe four or so behind, and civilian stuff? Five or six/old technology that's filtered down to the civilian market.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they have actual fucking terminators walking around in a DARPA lab somewhere. shrug

Yep like I have said in other threads. Things like Hypersonic Aircraft and shipborne Lasers were already being extensively tested in the late 80s and early 90s. The later I saw tested with my own two eyes in the Carribbean Test Range.

 

[Agent23]

Both are from the official websites of the companies making them.
They may not out the exact generation capabilities.
But thru every document we have, and the knowledge that this thing would be scrapped if it relied upon a external power source as it is supposed to be able to move and fire.

The documents for what it has to fit mentions self powered.

Sure, sure.

 

[Zachowon]

Sure, sure.

Basically, we have tons if evidence, from thise who have tested it, tons if articles, and the company and the military itself showing we have no trailer.

 

[Agent23]

Basically, we have tons if evidence, from thise who have tested it, tons if articles, and the company and the military itself showing we have no trailer.

If they are that efficient, why not send some to Ukraine to fix their geran and lancet problems.

 

[Bassoe]

DARPA is already going the route of AI Death Robots to occupy territory. They have stated as much. The DOD in the end want infantry that don't need to sleep and can stay on patrol 24/7.

They still would rather have actual infantry

The low Enlistment numbers are pushing them to go in this direction. I am just the messenger.

Well, obviously. I'd have called the whole situation hackneyed moralizing if I'd seen it in a nineties scifi novel. AGI is near, if the oligarchy had been able to control their greed enough to keep their society functioning and its inhabitants patriotic and motivated just a bit longer, they'd have been able to replace us with machines and rule forever. But they didn't and now history's back with a vengeance and enough people are demoralized enough to take Solzhenitsyn's Lesson to heart and make conscription merely open another front.

They would not even be suggesting it unless they made a breakthrough in AI tech the general public knows nothing about. It is not the first time advanced tech was being fielded decades before it is officially revealed.

This, on the other hand, I do doubt for two reasons. First off, given how the military-industry complex acts when it is being watched, I see no way money without oversight is going to build scifi wunderwaffe as opposed to being embezzled straight into politically connected pockets. Second, if the status quo had the option to unleash an entirely autonomous and consequentially mindlessly loyal army now, why've they been bothering with the whole charade of politics as opposed to simply going "elections and human rights are all canceled, we're staying in office forever and ruthlessly oppressing you, please direct all complaints to the unstoppable horde of killbots?" We've all seen the statistics for percentages of human soldiers who'd refuse to fire on their own civilians and defect if ordered to do so, guess what the equivalent stats for mindlessly loyal machines would be?

 

[Sailor.X]

Well, obviously. I'd have called the whole situation hackneyed moralizing if I'd seen it in a nineties scifi novel. AGI is near, if the oligarchy had been able to control their greed enough to keep their society functioning and its inhabitants patriotic and motivated just a bit longer, they'd have been able to replace us with machines and rule forever. But they didn't and now history's back with a vengeance and enough people are demoralized enough to take Solzhenitsyn's Lesson to heart and make conscription merely open another front.

This, on the other hand, I do doubt for two reasons. First off, given how the military-industry complex acts when it is being watched, I see no way money without oversight is going to build scifi wunderwaffe as opposed to being embezzled straight into politically connected pockets. Second, if the status quo had the option to unleash an entirely autonomous and consequentially mindlessly loyal army now, why've they been bothering with the whole charade of politics as opposed to simply going "elections and human rights are all canceled, we're staying in office forever and ruthlessly oppressing you, please direct all complaints to the unstoppable horde of killbots?" We've all seen the statistics for percentages of human soldiers who'd refuse to fire on their own civilians and defect if ordered to do so, guess what the equivalent stats for mindlessly loyal machines would be?

Because the bulk of the US Government is not made up of evil people. It is just made up of people from all walks of life. That is why.

 

[Jormungandr]

Because the bulk of the US Government is not made up of evil people. It is just made up of people from all walks of life. That is why.

Wheels, cogs, and gears in the bureaucratic machine: Even when they themselves don't do anything damaging, harmful, or even illegal on a personal level, they're still the gears and cogs that allow that hammer to come down on someone's head.

 

[Zachowon]

Wheels, cogs, and gears in the bureaucratic machine: Even when they themselves don't do anything damaging, harmful, or even illegal on a personal level, they're still the gears and cogs that allow that hammer to come down on someone's head.

While true, a blanket statement can turn those that would often be neutral or on your side against you.

 

[Agent23]

Well, obviously. I'd have called the whole situation hackneyed moralizing if I'd seen it in a nineties scifi novel. AGI is near, if the oligarchy had been able to control their greed enough to keep their society functioning and its inhabitants patriotic and motivated just a bit longer, they'd have been able to replace us with machines and rule forever. But they didn't and now history's back with a vengeance and enough people are demoralized enough to take Solzhenitsyn's Lesson to heart and make conscription merely open another front.

This, on the other hand, I do doubt for two reasons. First off, given how the military-industry complex acts when it is being watched, I see no way money without oversight is going to build scifi wunderwaffe as opposed to being embezzled straight into politically connected pockets. Second, if the status quo had the option to unleash an entirely autonomous and consequentially mindlessly loyal army now, why've they been bothering with the whole charade of politics as opposed to simply going "elections and human rights are all canceled, we're staying in office forever and ruthlessly oppressing you, please direct all complaints to the unstoppable horde of killbots?" We've all seen the statistics for percentages of human soldiers who'd refuse to fire on their own civilians and defect if ordered to do so, guess what the equivalent stats for mindlessly loyal machines would be?

Because of David Drake's recent, unfortunate death, I decided to reread Hammer's Slammers.

The introduction by Gene Wolfe is particularity relevant to this thread, the comments you are citing, and all "muh new shinee doodad" overgrown man children jacking off at adult toy descriptions in general.

 

[Typhonis]

How fast do drones move? You could see the return of the M-16. Quad turret mounted .50 MGs.

Canada had a few they mounted on an M-8 armored car chassis

 

[Zachowon]

How fast do drones move? You could see the return of the M-16. Quad turret mounted .50 MGs.

Canada had a few they mounted on an M-8 armored car chassis

Not faster then a prop plane but also a lot smaller.
Would need more air burst munitions to deal woth modern drones

 

[Marduk]

How fast do drones move? You could see the return of the M-16. Quad turret mounted .50 MGs.

Canada had a few they mounted on an M-8 armored car chassis

Depends on model and engine. The most tend to be 100-400 kph depending on type and payload, usually on the lower end of that. Once you get to bigger serious drones like Reaper and jet powered ones those go faster.

How fast do drones move? You could see the return of the M-16. Quad turret mounted .50 MGs.

Canada had a few they mounted on an M-8 armored car chassis

Not faster then a prop plane but also a lot smaller.
Would need more air burst munitions to deal woth modern drones

It's already done with whatever is available. No need for airburst munitions, just good fire control.

Czech Excalibur Army to Manufacture Artisan Vehicles With ZPU-2 Guns for the Ukrainian Army | Defense Express

Such vehicles proved effective against iranian Shahed drones

en.defence-ua.com