Will the Advent of Drone Warfare bring back the Gun Air Defense

[Marduk]

Sure, that doesn't mean that these radars and other equipment do not take up space and do not consume electricity, especially given the tit for that nature of technological development and the ability of the enemy to use more advanced EW, other countermeasures and throw larger swarms of targets ranging from drones to missiles to lots of artillery.

You are the one that brought them up, not me.

Again, so what's supposed makes them have more space problems than other platforms normally used for mobile SHORAD that aren't generally larger than that?
Or are you just complaining about this because you can't think of anything better, or does everyone have to suffer your idiotic reasonings for why it's impractical to invent the wheel because wheels take resources and money of course?
Or are you just trying to convince everyone that the people designing these SHORAD vehicles are better engineers than you would by through the fact that somehow they do fit all the necessary equipment into the vehicles no matter how hard you think that is, which you don't need to do, everyone can guess that much.

Nice advertising leaflet from someone who stands to gain from this stuff being purchased.
20kw is less than half the power of the laser for the striker, and once again, there is no example of how many drones ot can take out for how long.
And of course, there is the option for any potential adversary to drip feed the cheaper drones in for a few hours, then hit the enemy with a larger swarm combined with artillery and missiles.

So, yeah, unproven vundervaffe.

EEEEEWWWWWW NEW STUFF UNPROVEN UNTESTED GIMME PROOF!!!!
See, i can whine like that too.

Russia?
Look you are the one bringing up Russia and Russian equipment, I haven't, but if they tried to pull this then I would see it on the same light.

Honestly, people are getting sick and tired of your Russia fetish, and I am sure there are more than enough Russia hoes that would dominate and peg you for a few hours if you are this obsesses.
Hell, I'd even treat you to some time with one of you have a particular one in mind, I hear lots have swarmed Poland.

For the millionth bloody time, keep your sexual fancies to the appropriate parts of the forum (most definitely not war college) and don't project them on other people.

I am raising valid concerns over an interested piece of equipment that has many potential drawbacks and counters.
And you, like most other neocucks, gan let your shiny expensive toy obsessions/insecurities/other fetishes get the best of you.

No you are raising quadruplegic invalid concerns, that's what i'm pointing out.

Yes, and as I said, it depends on the drone, the number of drones and the other potential improvements thst can be done to them with existing technology.

Here is the price of a 7.62 mm rifle round.
Of course, those look to be wholesale and government buying in bulk should be able to buy them for less, so I would say about 30 cents a shot:

https://ammopricesnow.com/762x39/

And what do you think is the kill probability for a single round of rifle ammo in AA applications?
Multiply to get some kind of useful one and then talk to me about how cheap it is.
And that's without getting into the issue of range of such rounds, it's no 30mm, that's for sure.
So even for a mere 100 rounds you get enough diesel to run a large generator for an hour.

Yes, dear, completely valid criticism of your fap material is irrelevant gripes.Sure.

Damn, you sound like a particularly annoying tsundere gf.

No, very invalid, bottom of barrel concerns, and you sound like a contrarian teenager who thinks he knows things while he very much doesn't but really wants to be contrarian about things.

 

[Zachowon]

Question is, can you fit the power supply and the extra fuel.
I am skeptical of that.
As I am of the overall efficiency of this new toy.

...it is built into the system?
These systems can power the radars with the normal engine of the systems, or a auxiliary power unit. All of which run off the engine of the vehicle.

Yeah, ok, the revolving door is not a thing and limited testing will always show all problems.

Also, a lot of your new toys tend to turn out to be buggier and more expensive as they are developed and put into service.

Eh, not much anymore due to what the military is focusing on. Expensive, sure but it is prototype stuff and Congress is making it so companies don't just get write offs of it (last I checked, they have to pay if they lose the bid.)

It also isnt limited testing. It is rigious testing, and Abrams were untested until DS, that was a decade after it came out. And we even improved it a lot by the next decade even though it was great at its job.
Apache, Stryker, Bradley's.
All untested in combat and only trained on before being used

You contradict yourself, obviously the testing was not that extensive back then, what makes you think it is extensive enough now?

Because once it gets out of the initial testing for proof of concept *which iirc has over 400 intercepts of drone and mortar* it would then be tested even more on a quarterly bases training wise.

 

[IndyFront]

I say: yes. Even as drone and unmanned warfare become more common, boots-on-the-ground will remain a constant, and everything that comes with it. You need boots-on-the-ground to control territory. Holding territory is virtually useless if all you have are drones and robots.

 

[Agent23]

Again, so what's supposed makes them have more space problems than other platforms normally used for mobile SHORAD that aren't generally larger than that?

Asking this of @Zachowon too.
Where exactly does it say that a Stryker can generate over 50 kW?
I posted images of such a diesel electric generator, it is quite large, it is not like it kicks on the second you spot an enemy, it will need time, so you will need batteries, too.
And as I said, cooling is needed, extra armor is needed, etc, etc.

Or are you just complaining about this because you can't think of anything better, or does everyone have to suffer your idiotic reasonings for why it's impractical to invent the wheel because wheels take resources and money of course?

I remember SB going gaga over something called Metal Storm years ago, due to Axis of Time, which was a thinly veiled advertisement for it.
For its use in a similar role.

And I do not believe in vundervaffe.

Or are you just trying to convince everyone that the people designing these SHORAD vehicles are better engineers than you would by through the fact that somehow they do fit all the necessary equipment into the vehicles no matter how hard you think that is, which you don't need to do, everyone can guess that much.

>But muh military industrial complex and military procurement can do no wrong.
Simping for em like it is getting out of style, and like you are getting paid to do it, low.

EEEEEWWWWWW NEW STUFF UNPROVEN UNTESTED GIMME PROOF!!!!
See, i can whine like that too.

Didn't we get beyond the "That is you but what am I" conversations yet?
Back to kindergarten!

For the millionth bloody time, keep your sexual fancies to the appropriate parts of the forum (most definitely not war college) and don't project them on other people.

Says the guy that has a huge Russia fetish and can't stop bringing it up in unrelated discussions, constantly.

No you are raising quadruplegic invalid concerns, that's what i'm pointing out.

Given your track record of being a loud and vindictive know it all, if you told me good day I would check to see if it is not pitch black outside.

And what do you think is the kill probability for a single round of rifle ammo in AA applications?
Multiply to get some kind of useful one and then talk to me about how cheap it is.

That of course depends on the target.

The slower, cheaper drones that prove such a problem for expensive missile usage will go down easier from EW and small caliber ammo than bigger and more capable missiles and drones.
Or at least you tried to have everyone believe that a few times in other threads.

And that's without getting into the issue of range of such rounds, it's no 30mm, that's for sure.
So even for a mere 100 rounds you get enough diesel to run a large generator for an hour.

>Talks about 30 mm.
>When I am talking about 7.62 mm.
Nooice.

No, very invalid, bottom of barrel concerns, and you sound like a contrarian teenager who thinks he knows things while he very much doesn't but really wants to be contrarian about things.

Thanks, as we are going to exchange "pleasantries" again, you sound like an obsessive-compulsive spoiled brat of an armchair teen nerd with a fragile ego. The type that needs a regular spanking to stop getting high on his own bowel gasses.

 

[Marduk]

Asking this of @Zachowon too.
Where exactly does it say that a Stryker can generate over 50 kW?

It can generate enough to use its laser, obviously, and your attempts at word games won't change that.

I posted images of such a diesel electric generator, it is quite large, it is not like it kicks on the second you spot an enemy, it will need time, so you will need batteries, too.
And as I said, cooling is needed, extra armor is needed, etc, etc.

And it has space for all that and then some. How cool is that?

I remember SB going gaga over something called Metal Storm years ago, due to Axis of Time, which was a thinly veiled advertisement for it.
For its use in a similar role.

And I do not believe in vundervaffe.

I can believe anonymous retards on SB are no smarter than you, you would fit with that crowd.

>But muh military industrial complex and military procurement can do no wrong.
Simping for em like it is getting out of style, and like you are getting paid to do it, low.

Yes, they are better engineers than you, i'm 100% sure of that, and it's not simping, it's a fact

Didn't we get beyond the "That is you but what am I" conversations yet?
Back to kindergarten!

Yes, go there, unless you have a restraining order.

Says the guy that has a huge Russia fetish and can't stop bringing it up in unrelated discussions, constantly.

Yes, Russia is unrelated to wars, drones and SHORAD discussion, cool story bro, go tell this bullshit to someone who will take it.

Given your track record of being a loud and vindictive know it all, if you told me good day I would check to see if it is not pitch black outside.

You want to talk track records? Let's not talk about your track record of acute vatnik turboretardation...

That of course depends on the target.

The slower, cheaper drones that prove such a problem for expensive missile usage will go down easier from EW and small caliber ammo than bigger and more capable missiles and drones.
Or at least you tried to have everyone believe that a few times in other threads.

The problem with using small caliber ammo for that is that due to limited range of 7.62 you would basically need another vehicle to cover every few hundred meters, which is kinda less than convenient to say it lightly, it's pretty much strictly point defense, unlike 30-40mm guns that can cover few km.

>Talks about 30 mm.
>When I am talking about 7.62 mm.
Nooice.

Thanks, as we are going to exchange "pleasantries" again, you sound like an obsessive-compulsive spoiled brat of an armchair teen nerd with a fragile ego. The type that needs a regular spanking to stop getting high on his own bowel gasses.

No one cares about your recreational activities with spanking the monkey, which is the only kind of spanking you do around here, fuck off.

 

[Zachowon]

Asking this of @Zachowon too.
Where exactly does it say that a Stryker can generate over 50 kW?
I posted images of such a diesel electric generator, it is quite large, it is not like it kicks on the second you spot an enemy, it will need time, so you will need batteries, too.
And as I said, cooling is needed, extra armor is needed, etc, etc.

The Directed Energy weapon gives off 50kW of energy in a beam.
And we use 60k generators all the time in the army, and they easily fit inside if a Stryker

This is it mounted on a trailer. About 5 feet tall.
The second is on tje ground.
They arnt that big, and this is what we use standard for a 60k.
We have smaller 30ks that we can alsonuse

 

[Agent23]

It can generate enough to use its laser, obviously, and your attempts at word games won't change that.

>But muh lazor kan work!!!!
Yeah, sure, give proof.
For all I know it has a trailer with a generator and a capacitor bank behind it.

And again, that does not address the concerns about real conditions I listed, good job trying to strawman again.

And it has space for all that and then some. How cool is that?

I can believe anonymous retards on SB are no smarter than you, you would fit with that crowd.

>REE RESPECT MUH AUTHORETEH!!!!
Your attempts to make yourself look competent by flooding the place with glorified press releases do not and have never, worked.

Yes, they are better engineers than you, i'm 100% sure of that, and it's not simping, it's a fact

I am uninterested, in military procurement only the investors, the CEOs and some of the top military brass get the real money.

Yes, go there, unless you have a restraining order.

Stop projecting, damn it.

Yes, Russia is unrelated to wars, drones and SHORAD discussion, cool story bro, go tell this bullshit to someone who will take it.

>MUH RUSSSIIIIAAAA!!!!!!!!!

You should really start making comrade Vladimir Vladimirovich pay his rent, currently you are losing lots of money by letting him live rent free in your head!

You want to talk track records? Let's not talk about your track record of acute vatnik turboretardation...

Hillary, dis U?

The problem with using small caliber ammo for that is that due to limited range of 7.62 you would basically need another vehicle to cover every few hundred meters, which is kinda less than convenient to say it lightly, it's pretty much strictly point defense, unlike 30-40mm guns that can cover few km.

And we can not have a compromise where 12MM which has been used for sniper shots of over 2km, because?

No one cares about your recreational activities with spanking the monkey, which is the only kind of spanking you do around here, fuck off.

Well, somebody has to address the shortcomings of your upbringing and your head getting too big for your shoulders.
The majority of your posting is limited to:
- Autistic screeching.
- Bad strawmaning and going off on pointless tangents.
- Cherry picking and dumping the first few results from Google while trying to make yourself look as an authority.Protip, you are not, you look like:

- MUH RUSSIA!!!!!!

 

[Agent23]

The Directed Energy weapon gives off 50kW of energy in a beam.
And we use 60k generators all the time in the army, and they easily fit inside if a Stryker

This is it mounted on a trailer. About 5 feet tall.
The second is on tje ground.
They arnt that big, and this is what we use standard for a 60k.
We have smaller 30ks that we can alsonuse

Zach, even though you are a rampant bureaucratic careerist and something of a yes man it feels like you are the sanest person in this discussion.

Now, show me some stats that state clearly that it can be mounted inside of the vehicle and how long it can function.


And still, my other comments about this being a new, untested tech that will likely break and under perform in all sorts of ways still stand.

 

[Marduk]

>But muh lazor kan work!!!!
Yeah, sure, give proof.
For all I know it has a trailer with a generator and a capacitor bank behind it.

Show me PROOF. Like photo of said trailer.

The new laser air defense weapon system does not pull a trailer nor have a dedicated support vehicle. Everything needed is mounted on the one Stryker chassis, which gives it an agility advantage over older systems. Another key component of DE M-SHORAD is that it is more cost-effective than firing multiple high-dollar missiles at low-value targets.

Frankly the stealth trailer technology may be cooler than the whole lazor stuff.

And again, that does not address the concerns about real conditions I listed, good job trying to strawman again.

Yes, being bad at engineering is a real condition you suffer from, fortunately that's neither my nor Leonardo's problem.

>REE RESPECT MUH AUTHORETEH!!!!
Your attempts to make yourself look competent by flooding the place with glorified press releases do not and have never, worked.

I am uninterested, in military procurement only the investors, the CEOs and some of the top military brass get the real money.

Yes, i can see you are uninterested, if you were interested you would probably have a bit more idea on what you are talking about.

Stop projecting, damn it.

>MUH RUSSSIIIIAAAA!!!!!!!!!

You should really start making comrade Vladimir Vladimirovich pay his rent, currently you are losing lots of money by letting him live rent free in your head!

Hillary, dis U?

Yes, spam more page sized pics like a retarded teenager on a WoT forum.

And we can not have a compromise where 12MM which has been used for sniper shots of over 2km, because?

Because good luck getting those for 30 cents. In which case, congratulations, you have reinvented the Avenger, firing 18 of those per second. A second of firing that is worth good few gallons of diesel.

Well, somebody has to address the shortcomings of your upbringing and your head getting too big for your shoulders.
The majority of your posting is limited to:
- Autistic screeching.
- Bad strawmaning and going off on pointless tangents.
- Cherry picking and dumping the first few results from Google while trying to make yourself look as an authority.Protip, you are not, you look like:

- MUH RUSSIA!!!!!!

More projection and retarded teenager behavior. At least you are young in spirit, i have to give you that. Even if you could use a bit more brain cells.

 

[Zachowon]

Zach, even though you are a rampant bureaucratic careerist and something of a yes man it feels like you are the sanest person in this discussion.

Now, show me some stats that state clearly that it can be mounted inside of the vehicle and how long it can function.


And still, my other comments about this being a new, untested tech that will likely break and under perform in all sorts of ways still stand.

Well, earlier I showed you thr exact DE, aka laser version of the M-SHORAD. No trailer nothing. Which means all the things powering it are on the Stryker. Because I cam show you a picture of the Patriot radar and you see the trailer generator even in the promotional images for it.

And while that is true, the military has been forced by Congress to not spend willy nilly and put force and finish actual viable products.

We have been desting with DE style weapons for decades now though, and the fact that at Yuma the DE has had over 400 intercepts is a big achievement.

 

[Sailor.X]

I say: yes. Even as drone and unmanned warfare become more common, boots-on-the-ground will remain a constant, and everything that comes with it. You need boots-on-the-ground to control territory. Holding territory is virtually useless if all you have are drones and robots.

DARPA is already going the route of AI Death Robots to occupy territory. They have stated as much. The DOD in the end want infantry that don't need to sleep and can stay on patrol 24/7.

 

[Zachowon]

They still would rather have actual infantry

 

[Sailor.X]

They still would rather have actual infantry

The low Enlistment numbers are pushing them to go in this direction. I am just the messenger.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

DARPA is already going the route of AI Death Robots to occupy territory. They have stated as much. The DOD in the end want infantry that don't need to sleep and can stay on patrol 24/7.

Except they can't do that.
Down time happens for 'bots too.
Gotta recharge, gotta do maintenance, gotta replace parts, etc...
Now you have to have all the support personnel for that...and all the support people for the support people...

 

[Zachowon]

The low Enlistment numbers are pushing them to go in this direction. I am just the messenger.

When the AI gets defeated by a bunch of marines in a cardboard box.....
AI will never be able to have the gut feelings humans have
Something that gives us an advantage

Except they can't do that.
Down time happens for 'bots too.
Gotta recharge, gotta do maintenance, gotta replace parts, etc...
Now you have to have all the support personnel for that...and all the support people for the support people...

It is a lot of people to maintain that as well

 

[Sailor.X]

Except they can't do that.
Down time happens for 'bots too.
Gotta recharge, gotta do maintenance, gotta replace parts, etc...
Now you have to have all the support personnel for that...and all the support people for the support people...

Cheap and disposable bots that can be cranked out in the thousands. That is the path.

When the AI gets defeated by a bunch of marines in a cardboard box.....
AI will never be able to have the gut feelings humans have
Something that gives us an advantage

It is a lot of people to maintain that as well

They would not even be suggesting it unless they made a breakthrough in AI tech the general public knows nothing about. It is not the first time advanced tech was being fielded decades before it is officially revealed.

 

[Agent23]

Well, earlier I showed you thr exact DE, aka laser version of the M-SHORAD. No trailer nothing. Which means all the things powering it are on the Stryker. Because I cam show you a picture of the Patriot radar and you see the trailer generator even in the promotional images for it.

And while that is true, the military has been forced by Congress to not spend willy nilly and put force and finish actual viable products.

We have been desting with DE style weapons for decades now though, and the fact that at Yuma the DE has had over 400 intercepts is a big achievement.

And you are assuming all this on the basis of a few photos that are part of a press release?

I mean, you do realize that the people that do that stuff will go out of their way for the releases material to look good and at the same time minimize dsts leaks, and maybe the existence of a trailer is omitted, right?

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I wonder if the US will create something akin to the M42 Duster again just you know modernized with radar and all that jazz.

 

[Sailor.X]

I wonder if the US will create something akin to the M42 Duster again just you know modernized with radar and all that jazz.

You know if they removed the turret from a M1A1 and replaced it with a heavy Vulcan cannon and some Radar. It would be one helluva Anti Drone platform.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

You know if they removed the turret from a M1A1 and replaced it with a heavy Vulcan cannon and some Radar. It would be one helluva Anti Drone platform.

It would also be metal as fuck and our answer to the Russian Terminator.