Will the Advent of Drone Warfare bring back the Gun Air Defense

[Marduk]

>Word salad of pointless cope, technobabel and strawmaning and alligning the details to whatever your bis is...

Thanks for explaining your whole argument here.

So, haber process with coal, how does it work exactly?

Are you paying me for chemistry lectures and what the fuck does ammonia production have to do with drones?
Better explain to everyone what kind of technical parameters does a thermal camera need to have to be capable of doing this at a tactically useful distance of, say, 5km and how much does an sample camera with sufficient performance cost:

And you do not need to be perfect, you do not need to recognize the exact shape of a Stryker or Bradley, you merely have to recognize enough of its characteristics to know wit an acceptable margin of error that you have to hit it and go boom. This can come from the thermal profile of muzzle flared or from a rough shape of the hull done via a simplified image recognition, noting overly fancy, no need for a neural net or other fuzzy logic, a simple DAG with weighted edges could likely yield sufficiently good results given enough input from a more advanced "spotter" drone and other pre-loaded
Furthdrmore, not all A.I. models are as bloated as the stuff you might see and do not necessarily require huge amounts of computing power.
What is in the model is what is important.

That question on the contrary on topic because you're trying to play cool with such inventions and you made a huge doodoo with this here suggestion.

 

[Agent23]

Thanks for explaining your whole argument here.

Are you paying me for chemistry lectures and what the fuck does ammonia production have to do with drones?

With drones?
Nothing.
With your credibility and with your gibberish on the subjext being proof you will try to stretch things and talk gibberish which you try to dress up as relevant, authoritive facts?
Everything!

Better explain to everyone what kind of technical parameters does a thermal camera need to have to be capable of doing this at a tactically useful distance of, say, 5km and how much does an sample camera with sufficient performance cost:

The technical capabilities of the equipmnet used in the terminal phase, which should be within range of effective jamming should be less, I'd say this should be the very edge of what your lazor can hot, plus 10-20% so as to make sure the escort/drone carrier/drone "AWACS" does not get hit.

That question on the contrary on topic because you're trying to play cool with such inventions and you made a huge doodoo with this here suggestion.

Ree harder!
You are the one that takes your pet toy and tries to handwave lots of real factors, like the possibility of no GPS or other jamming being effective in the immediate area, because you can't lose and can't stop enjoying the sound of your own voice.

 

[Marduk]

With drones?
Nothing.
With your credibility and with your gibberish on the subjext being proof you will try to stretch things and talk gibberish which you try to dress up as relevant, authoritive facts?
Everything!

LMAO, cope harder with the fact that i caught you talking about shit you can't even do a basic sanity check on.

The technical capabilities of the equipmnet used in the terminal phase, which should be within range of effective jamming should be less, I'd say this should be the very edge of what your lazor can hot, plus 10-20% so as to make sure the escort/drone carrier/drone "AWACS" does not get hit.

Less buzzwords, more numbers please.
Your "drone AWACS" probably has enough fancy electronics to be worth a medium range SAM rather than only avoiding SHORAD, and due to its nature it emits EM, very very much of it.

Ree harder!
You are the one that takes your pet toy and tries to handwave lots of real factors, like the possibility of no GPS or other jamming being effective in the immediate area, because you can't lose and can't stop enjoying the sound of your own voice.

Sorry, the people you argue against aren't there to concede losses to you for your satisfaction, you have to actually know shit to win arguments and throwing around buzzwords enough only if you talk to people who know even less, so wrong address.

Yeah, sure, weapons always work well against targets that have no defenses, but then why you even need drones swarms, one drone will do

 

[Agent23]

LMAO, cope harder with the fact that i caught you talking about shit you can't even do a basic sanity check on.

I am theorizing, to be sure, your ability to credibly counter that is a bad jokex though, given you need to strawman hard use ad hominems and demand that there is prefect EM that somehow blankets the entire territory of hostilities and they can't be countered.

Less buzzwords, more numbers please.
Your "drone AWACS" probably has enough fancy electronics to be worth a medium range SAM rather than only avoiding SHORAD, and due to its nature it emits EM, very very much of it.

And the medium range SAM will just pop up close enough to the engagement zone, how, exactly, and how will such a concentration of forces not cause a "real retaliation" or however you put it when I was discussing my combined drone and srirllery strike?
Sauce for the goose is source for the ganger, or whatever.

Sorry, the people you argue against aren't there to concede losses to you for your satisfaction, you have to actually know shit to win arguments and throwing around buzzwords enough only if you talk to people who know even less, so wrong address.

You "know" whatever the first google hot that confirms your bias is.

Yeah, sure, weapons always work well against targets that have no defenses, but then why you even need drones swarms, one drone will do

Aand, bullshit strawman alert, again.

Nope, still not respecting your self-appointed authority on anything , wanna try again?

 

[Marduk]

I am theorizing, to be sure, your ability to credibly counter that is a bad jokex though, given you need to strawman hard use ad hominems and demand that there is prefect EM that somehow blankets the entire territory of hostilities and they can't be countered.

Where did i say it can't be countered? Good luck jamming a F-35 from all its comms and datalinks, but this sort of stuff is not in the budget ($, weight or power) for a 1000$ commercial drone.

https://news.usni.org/2023/01/03/navy-buys-2-loyal-wingman-xq-58a-valkyrie-drones-for-15-5m

This is also a drone, and i'm sure it's much harder to jam that some commercial FPV, but swarms of those aren't that likely either.

And the medium range SAM will just pop up close enough to the engagement zone, how, exactly, and how will such a concentration of forces not cause a "real retaliation" or however you put it when I was discussing my combined drone and srirllery strike?
Sauce for the goose is source for the ganger, or whatever.

We're talking something like NASAMS with 50km range, it doesn't need to be that close to the engagement zone at all.

You "know" whatever the first google hot that confirms your bias is.

Aand, bullshit strawman alert, again.

Nope, still not respecting your self-appointed authority on anything , wanna try again?

You were the bullshit strawman all along.

 

[Agent23]

Where did i say it can't be countered? Good luck jamming a F-35 from all its comms and datalinks, but this sort of stuff is not in the budget ($, weight or power) for a 1000$ commercial drone.

https://news.usni.org/2023/01/03/navy-buys-2-loyal-wingman-xq-58a-valkyrie-drones-for-15-5m

This is also a drone, and i'm sure it's much harder to jam that some commercial FPV, but swarms of those aren't that likely either.

We're talking something like NASAMS with 50km range, it doesn't need to be that close to the engagement zone at all.

You were the bullshit strawman all along.

Look, we both know you are thin skinned as they come, is your ego so fragile that you need to keep on with the pointless reeing and empty rhetoric?
I don't give a shit about what you say because you are a proven bullshitter, I'd rather deal with the saner people in this discussion, like maybe Zach.
We all know you are just an armchair chicken hawk whanking at unrealistic press releases, and thet you will try and pull all sorts of silly verbal gymnastics to push your point, like your bullshit assumptions about total and impossible to mitigate GPS jamming.

TL;DR, all your points are irrelevant bluster, you have a pattern of being a whiny asshole afflicted by tosm and anything you say will be ignored.

 

[Zachowon]

Oh, really?
You will also have a GPS and other jammers along with the laser?

Jamming can be done by means that are a lot further away

And in any case, we had guidance before GPS, you would need the initial coordinates, but if you know where the enemy is and what your speed and location is you can plot a course the old fashioned way.
Maybe with some limited visual terain matching.

We did have guidance before GPS, radio guidance for old school drones and IR.
But thay guidance is done manually and is even easier to disrupt.

Lazors might bez though, especially if the camera on the drone sees infrared and thermal.

that isna decent point, but for the scale of them needed not really.
they would see the laser as it destroys it.

So, hest from the laser, laser radiation, the best form the working 60 mW or more powerful generator, etc.

Gen 1 and Gen 2 is the best of both you would get and they arnt the bets to see when moving at a fast pace when you have active methods if prevention.
It works in Ukraine because they don't have as much jamming capabilites

Can you hide the heat from the laser and the power supply as well?

yes actually. Thermal covers fir vehicles.

Ana don't underestimate situations where you have to fight an actually advanced, determined enemy, not idiots wearing flaps with leftovers on the desert.

I do understand. They wouldnt be making FPV drone swamra because that would involve training a lot in a short amount of time in using then in an environment where thier connection to said drones is unlikely to work for various reasons.

Yeah, sure, depends on the terrain and the software.

Does depend for sure

What?

It is not like you can jam all radio and GPS 24/7 in an arbitrarily large area, and if you could it would invite bigger fish, like maybe ones shooting anti-radiation missiles.

You are right about 24/7. But the methods very. And it would be more to help the targeting process more then force protection

Told you, in my view the infrared flare and the extra hest form genrators will serve like a nice homing signal.

Not really, it isnt as bright as you think it is.

And as I said, I think a hybrid approach with some sensor improvement and I thermal guide ce for the terminal peotion of the flight + decoys could make your hypothrit striker's dsy pretty dark.

you woilsnt be able to have such advanced systems in small FPV drones

Maybe, maybe not, I amd suing the tech is old and apparently works.

works against nations not training to fight it and has already been showing to be countered easily

And I think you have an absolute limit to how long you can jam and what redius.

You honestly dont have to jam, other methods of negating EM amd GPS

Or will you equip every small frontal unit with jammers and a laser equipped striker?

The laser equipped Stryker is going to be just that. The AD uni for frontal units, used in conjunction with maneuver forces.
And jammer arnt always done the way you think

 

[Marduk]

Look, we both know you are thin skinned as they come, is your ego so fragile that you need to keep on with the pointless reeing and empty rhetoric?

Yeah, we can, if only you didn't join this conversation that's over your head we wouldn't have to any mentions of reeeing, teenager grade meme spam, ego fragility accusations and other bullshit. You really are a plague upon any thread you show up in.

I don't give a shit about what you say because you are a proven bullshitter, I'd rather deal with the saner people in this discussion, like maybe Zach.

So would i, and unlike me, you have proven that you have no fucking clue about this stuff.

We all know you are just an armchair chicken hawk whanking at unrealistic press releases,

Fuck off retarded vatnik who thinks he's cool.

and thet you will try and pull all sorts of silly verbal gymnastics to push your point, like your bullshit assumptions about total and impossible to mitigate GPS jamming.

If you like red herrings learn to read and go to a restaurant and order one, i just ruined your "we'll have unstoppable drone swarms with all the capabilities of multi-million dollar drones but they will still have price tags and numbers of commercial DJI drones" fantasy, no need to be so butthurt about it.

TL;DR, all your points are irrelevant bluster, you have a pattern of being a whiny asshole afflicted by tosm and anything you say will be ignored.

Yes, thanks for your presentation, projection much?

 

[Agent23]

Yeah, we can, if only you didn't join this conversation that's over your head we wouldn't have to any mentions of reeeing, teenager grade meme spam, ego fragility accusations and other bullshit. You really are a plague upon any thread you show up in.

So would i, and unlike me, you have proven that you have no fucking clue about this stuff.

Fuck off retarded vatnik who thinks he's cool.

If you like red herrings learn to read and go to a restaurant and order one, i just ruined your "we'll have unstoppable drone swarms with all the capabilities of multi-million dollar drones but they will still have price tags and numbers of commercial DJI drones" fantasy, no need to be so butthurt about it.

Yes, thanks for your presentation, projection much?

Your posts mean jack shit, I see you sucking out stuff from your fingers to try and argue, but here is the thing, you would have presented all of that stuff much earlier. So, your persistent googling does not impress.

You must be a rally sad individual to need constant validstion like this.

 

[Agent23]

Jamming can be done by means that are a lot further away

Yes, and there are many ways to disable that jamming, like hitting the jammers with missiles.
Or having a situation where rher eis I sufficient cover.

We did have guidance before GPS, radio guidance for old school drones and IR.
But thay guidance is done manually and is even easier to disrupt.

Yes, and there is literally indoor GPS

that isna decent point, but for the scale of them needed not really.
they would see the laser as it destroys it.

Gen 1 and Gen 2 is the best of both you would get and they arnt the bets to see when moving at a fast pace when you have active methods if prevention.
It works in Ukraine because they don't have as much jamming capabilites

Ok, why is everyone blindly assuming that it is the USA dealing with this, or deploying a full on force with jammers and contractor catering?

yes actually. Thermal covers fir vehicles.

I do understand. They wouldnt be making FPV drone swamra because that would involve training a lot in a short amount of time in using then in an environment where thier connection to said drones is unlikely to work for various reasons.

Elaborate?

Does depend for sure

You are right about 24/7. But the methods very. And it would be more to help the targeting process more then force protection

And there are ways to deal with jammers.

Not really, it isnt as bright as you think it is.

50kW plus thermal radiation from the generator and the laser emitter.
I don't see that as trivial.

you woilsnt be able to have such advanced systems in small FPV drones

Yeah, as I said, you'd Dee dinifial telemetry from verious other sources, like larger drones,satellites and the like.
And terrain recognition A.I. is getting better and better.
I think thar a combo of preprogramming, good enough decision making sugemntrs with whatever sensors toy do have on the drones could make some of them do damage or at least act as decent decoys.

works against nations not training to fight it and has already been showing to be countered easily

You honestly dont have to jam, other methods of negating EM amd GPS

Oh, really.

The laser equipped Stryker is going to be just that. The AD uni for frontal units, used in conjunction with maneuver forces.

Yeah, and those forced outrun their heacier support, or lack it all together, or are lures in and ambushed.
Honestly, there are s lot of tactical details that can come in play here, with the end result being the drones scoring a hit.

And jammer arnt always done the way you think

Yeah, ok, sure.

 

[Zachowon]

Yes, and there are many ways to disable that jamming, like hitting the jammers with missiles.
Or having a situation where rher eis I sufficient cover.

The jammers I am talking about arnt just sitting targets. But that is as far as I can go with that

Yes, and there is literally indoor GPS

that revolves around nodes of some sort if WAP. So useless in time of war because that doesn't exist in the capacity you would need.

Ok, why is everyone blindly assuming that it is the USA dealing with this, or deploying a full on force with jammers and contractor catering?

Because we would.

Elaborate?

The kind of drone swarms we are talking about here arnt like the movies and control over any more then a dozen by a dozen people isn't really possible on a scale to cause the issues you are saying they can.

And there are ways to deal with jammers.

There are, but very limited ways to deal woth them in the means we are trying to talk about.
Why would a peer adversary risk so many assets for a drone use?
And why would the US just let it happen? There are also jammers thay sre harder to deal with

50kW plus thermal radiation from the generator and the laser emitter.
I don't see that as trivial.

there are ways to cover it. Pretty easy ones.

Yeah, as I said, you'd Dee dinifial telemetry from verious other sources, like larger drones,satellites and the like.
And terrain recognition A.I. is getting better and better.
I think thar a combo of preprogramming, good enough decision making sugemntrs with whatever sensors toy do have on the drones could make some of them do damage or at least act as decent decoys.

Decoys you have a decent point about, if it wasn't for the fact they would be targets to be shit at by SHORAD, and if near a base, C-RAAMs which tour drones definitely can't outrun.

We are talking about an airspace that would realistically be dominated by the US, any adversarial drones would not be in the air.
Satellites thiugh yes, but that would invovle a SATCOM connection, meaning a constant connection to the Satellite and that isn't a small receiver. Especially with live feed.

Oh, really.

Yeah, and those forced outrun their heacier support, or lack it all together, or are lures in and ambushed.
Honestly, there are s lot of tactical details that can come in play here, with the end result being the drones scoring a hit.

I mean, yes and no.
All US vehicles have multiple machine guns with the capability to aim high with them, as well as the fact that doctrinal the AD would not over stretch or rush ahead. They would be in ample coverage.
The entire US doctrine is able to be read you know.
You are not a tactically sound person, but you have decent ideas on things

Yeah, ok, sure.

I'm telling the truth

 

[Marduk]

Your posts mean jack shit, I see you sucking out stuff from your fingers to try and argue, but here is the thing, you would have presented all of that stuff much earlier. So, your persistent googling does not impress.

You must be a rally sad individual to need constant validstion like this.

I see you ran out of bullshit, need to spam buzzwords and shitty memes, goodbye and fuck off.

 

[Agent23]

I see you ran out of bullshit, need to spam buzzwords and shitty memes, goodbye and fuck off.

Much Dupiebol I sense here.

 

[Marduk]

Much Dupiebol I sense here.

No wonder you do, guess you are very butthurt about being shown to be out of your depth.

 

[Agent23]

No wonder you do, guess you are very butthurt about being shown to be out of your depth.

More like being bored with the antics of a certain pathetic e-Janitor.

Have you ever thought about seeking professional help for your mental illnesses?

 

[Marduk]

More like being bored with the antics of a certain pathetic e-Janitor.

Have you ever thought about seeking professional help for your mental illnesses?

I guess you have a lot of experience with that, and sadly no one could help you.

 

[Agent23]

I guess you have a lot of experience with that, and sadly no one could help you.

Excuse me, I fail to see the point of your last 5-10 posts.
Not thet the precious ones were better, but at least they were somewhat relevant to the topic.

Do you have a specific need to waste my Rogue Trader playing time with your vain attempts at getting the last word?

 

[Marduk]

Excuse me, I fail to see the point of your last 5-10 posts.
Not thet the precious ones were better, but at least they were somewhat relevant to the topic.

If you didn't post dumb whining posts solely to get the last word i would not be responding to them.

Do you have a specific need to waste my Rogue Trader playing time with your vain attempts at getting the last word?

Well, do *you* need the last word? Quoting myself, fuck off and don't pollute this thread with your need to get the last word, as you apparently you have better things to do.

 

[Agent23]

If you didn't post dumb whining posts solely to get the last word i would not be responding to them.

Well, do *you* need the last word? Quoting myself, fuck off and don't pollute this thread with your need to get the last word, as you apparently you have better things to do.

Stop talking to yourself and seeing yourself in others.
And get therapy.

To you and to all the other posters on TS.
Happy New Year, ahead of time, and may you get all the best of life and prosperity and health in the coming 2024, hopefully mental health, too.That last bit was just for shumnopoliak.

Gonna go drink champagne and eat steak and Russian salad with the family, bye!!!

 

[Marduk]

Stop talking to yourself and seeing yourself in others.
And get therapy.

Get yourself committed.