United States Trump v Biden 2, electric boogaloo

[Bacle]

Any candidate running against Trump that year would have set the record. You act like the record is some crazy thing when the person who got the second number of votes in US history was Donald Trump that same year, and it was only a couple of million less. I'm not delusional, I just don't live in a right wing bubble and understand how psyoped the entire country was at that time and I witnessed with my own eyes droves of people register to vote specifically against Trump. Every single person under the age of 30 had insane TDS and the whole nation just wanted the bs to end.

Seriously the only delusional people are the ones who think a president can reign during a national lockdown, an economic collapse and have his own parties apparatus turn against him to sink him, literally admit all of this, and then cope by saying they then needed voter fraud to beat him. The DNC and (and what would become the Lincoln Project) burned so much political capital during those 4 years, especially the last one, that it's a serious miracle and testament to Trump he got as many votes as he did. And when he wins again this november, because none of those things are currently happening, it will be because the american people voted for it because there is no widespread voter fraud happening in the US. If you knew anything at all about how elections were conducted, not what you've read on conspiracy twitter, you would know this because every single count is hounded by partisans from across the board.

But there's no point in arguing with people who believe this, luckily (and thank god!) Trump doesn't actually believe this nonsense and has reflected on why he lost that year and has corrected basically every aspect of his failed 2020 campaign.

This ignores the data found in AZ, the only place to even attempt an audit.

It's not Trump's accusations alone that convinced me and others, it was the Democrat response and the actions of the anti-Trump parts of the GOP.

I could believe Trump lost legitly in 2020, with the mother of all psy-os against him, if not for the actions of the Dems in response, and what Chief Justice Roberts forced SCOTUS to do relating to the elections cases, both before and after Election Day.

I however am also not really expecting Trump to win this November, legitly or otherwise, simply due to the stupidity Trump's own ego has caused and some of the self-inflicted wounds he's given himself, along with a lot of the same media and social factors in play on both sides. I've also soured significantly on him for some of his ego driven actions around the Wu Flu/vax and now Ukraine.

Personally I don't see good options in US politics for at least a generation, and am more interest in political/social 'survival' than 'victory', as some parts of the GOP would define it. I think trying to educate or enlighten any person over the age of 55-60 right now is a waste of time, particularly the older GOP members; they don't think they need to listen to anyone younger than them that isn't wear a LEO badge pulling them over for a ticket.

 

[Terthna]

Any candidate running against Trump that year would have set the record. You act like the record is some crazy thing when the person who got the second number of votes in US history was Donald Trump that same year, and it was only a couple of million less. I'm not delusional, I just don't live in a right wing bubble and understand how psyoped the entire country was at that time and I witnessed with my own eyes droves of people register to vote specifically against Trump. Every single person under the age of 30 had insane TDS and the whole nation just wanted the bs to end.

Seriously the only delusional people are the ones who think a president can reign during a national lockdown, an economic collapse and have his own parties apparatus turn against him to sink him, literally admit all of this, and then cope by saying they then needed voter fraud to beat him. The DNC and (and what would become the Lincoln Project) burned so much political capital during those 4 years, especially the last one, that it's a serious miracle and testament to Trump he got as many votes as he did. And when he wins again this november, because none of those things are currently happening, it will be because the american people voted for it because there is no widespread voter fraud happening in the US. If you knew anything at all about how elections were conducted, not what you've read on conspiracy twitter, you would know this because every single count is hounded by partisans from across the board.

But there's no point in arguing with people who believe this, luckily (and thank god!) Trump doesn't actually believe this nonsense and has reflected on why he lost that year and has corrected basically every aspect of his failed 2020 campaign.

None of that helped, I'll grant you that; but again, the facts don't bear your assertion that there was no significant amount of vote fraud out. There's evidence of Trump votes being counted as votes for Biden, people finding out that they voted for Biden through the mail when they didn't actually vote, Democrats bragging about illegally voting multiple times in different districts, entire trucks full of Trump votes found dumped or "misplaced"; heck, the owner of this forum could tell you his firsthand account of some of the skeevy stuff that went on, because he was actually there.

Also, I'm left; so to accuse me of living in a right wing bubble is simply laughable, and shows how desperate you are to dismiss what I've said.

 

[Zachowon]

Any candidate running against Trump that year would have set the record. You act like the record is some crazy thing when the person who got the second number of votes in US history was Donald Trump that same year, and it was only a couple of million less. I'm not delusional, I just don't live in a right wing bubble and understand how psyoped the entire country was at that time and I witnessed with my own eyes droves of people register to vote specifically against Trump. Every single person under the age of 30 had insane TDS and the whole nation just wanted the bs to end.

Seriously the only delusional people are the ones who think a president can reign during a national lockdown, an economic collapse and have his own parties apparatus turn against him to sink him, literally admit all of this, and then cope by saying they then needed voter fraud to beat him. The DNC and (and what would become the Lincoln Project) burned so much political capital during those 4 years, especially the last one, that it's a serious miracle and testament to Trump he got as many votes as he did. And when he wins again this november, because none of those things are currently happening, it will be because the american people voted for it because there is no widespread voter fraud happening in the US. If you knew anything at all about how elections were conducted, not what you've read on conspiracy twitter, you would know this because every single count is hounded by partisans from across the board.

But there's no point in arguing with people who believe this, luckily (and thank god!) Trump doesn't actually believe this nonsense and has reflected on why he lost that year and has corrected basically every aspect of his failed 2020 campaign.

You are one of the few who is willing to make this argument here.
Most will scream fraud an go along eith it.
Sure some states may have had some fraud, AZ for sure. With potentially GA and a few others, the vast majority did not

 

[Bigking321]

There is some level of fraud everywhere. The usual 10000 dead people voted or 10000 votes counted with no signatures or chain of custody.

Some horrifically bad fraud happened in the four or five swing states.

Like counting being stopped for the night, oh look Biden picked up 300000 votes at 3am and Trump got zero, how odd.

Oh look all the Republican watchers are being forced out of the building for some excuse, tge police won't let them back in because of sudden covid rules on number of people allowed in the building, and all the windows covered with cardboard so no on can see in.

Oh look a water pipe broke. Everyone out of the building. Except the Democrat counters on camera pulling out hidden ballot boxes and scanning them multiple times.

The election was stolen rather blatantly. And the people that won the rigged elections seem to not want to investigate it for some reason.

Hell. I just saw something in the news the other day that Barr lied about investigating voter fraud. That he specifically stopped several investigations before claiming there was no voter fraud.

 

[Blasterbot]

Personally I don't think that either candidate will mean america is in a great spot once they win.

-Should Trump win it will be 2016+. GOP will stymie most policy goals. Dems will say he cheated and is a putler puppet. lots of riots. Should trump try and follow through with the deportations we are gonna get a load of he is loading PoCs on trains and engaging in genocide. this is literally what the nazis did will be the narrative. won't be true but will rile up their base something fierce. in the end maybe we get 20% of what we want but for a time the active degradation of America is staved off.

-Should Biden win regardless of how much shenanigans happened everything is gonna be put on blast delegitimizing the election in the eyes of the GOP base. Who will point to the DoJ and all the cases against Trump as reasons that he lost and have a point but also be yelling about a lot more unsubstantiated conspiratorial reasons as well. regardless expect more of the last 4 years so a sputtering dying economy paired with mass illegal immigration. the judiciary being turned on populist voices. the world seeing more wars start while America is schizoing to itself about whether to go all in and start/join a WW3 or cooler heads can prevail and realize that the populous has very little appetite for any war except maybe a civil one if pushed hard enough.

any potential Biden replacement actually does worse against Trump. Trying to appeal more to the prog base drives off the establishment types that are needed to win. they want the status quo that allows them to live the good life and virtue signal regardless of who gets hurt maintaining that system. trying to appeal to that status quo however will drive off those progs you also need to win. their coalition of radical revolutionaries and establishment types is fragile. Biden isn't liked. he is the least hated option. presumably because everyone knows he is a figurehead for the Obama legacies he has filled the admin with.

Regardless Dems said 2000 and 2016 were illegitamate elections. the right started thinking that too in 2020. regardless of who wins both sides got a big incentive to uses that narrative to galvanize their supporters.

 

[Poe]

This ignores the data found in AZ, the only place to even attempt an audit.

It's not Trump's accusations alone that convinced me and others, it was the Democrat response and the actions of the anti-Trump parts of the GOP.

I could believe Trump lost legitly in 2020, with the mother of all psy-os against him, if not for the actions of the Dems in response, and what Chief Justice Roberts forced SCOTUS to do relating to the elections cases, both before and after Election Day.

I however am also not really expecting Trump to win this November, legitly or otherwise, simply due to the stupidity Trump's own ego has caused and some of the self-inflicted wounds he's given himself, along with a lot of the same media and social factors in play on both sides. I've also soured significantly on him for some of his ego driven actions around the Wu Flu/vax and now Ukraine.

Personally I don't see good options in US politics for at least a generation, and am more interest in political/social 'survival' than 'victory', as some parts of the GOP would define it. I think trying to educate or enlighten any person over the age of 55-60 right now is a waste of time, particularly the older GOP members; they don't think they need to listen to anyone younger than them that isn't wear a LEO badge pulling them over for a ticket.

None of that helped, I'll grant you that; but again, the facts don't bear your assertion that there was no significant amount of vote fraud out. There's evidence of Trump votes being counted as votes for Biden, people finding out that they voted for Biden through the mail when they didn't actually vote, Democrats bragging about illegally voting multiple times in different districts, entire trucks full of Trump votes found dumped or "misplaced"; heck, the owner of this forum could tell you his firsthand account of some of the skeevy stuff that went on, because he was actually there.

Also, I'm left; so to accuse me of living in a right wing bubble is simply laughable, and shows how desperate you are to dismiss what I've said.

Like I said, thank god Trump doesn't believe this nonsense because if he did he wouldn't have course corrected and be on track to winning big this year.

You are one of the few who is willing to make this argument here.
Most will scream fraud an go along eith it.
Sure some states may have had some fraud, AZ for sure. With potentially GA and a few others, the vast majority did not

I just get tired of the black pilling I see here. There is definitely fraud, just as there's probably voter suppression in isolated cases across the country, but neither is a large scale problem nor should we be writing off victory as impossible because of it.

Personally I don't think that either candidate will mean america is in a great spot once they win.

-Should Trump win it will be 2016+. GOP will stymie most policy goals. Dems will say he cheated and is a putler puppet. lots of riots. Should trump try and follow through with the deportations we are gonna get a load of he is loading PoCs on trains and engaging in genocide. this is literally what the nazis did will be the narrative. won't be true but will rile up their base something fierce. in the end maybe we get 20% of what we want but for a time the active degradation of America is staved off.

-Should Biden win regardless of how much shenanigans happened everything is gonna be put on blast delegitimizing the election in the eyes of the GOP base. Who will point to the DoJ and all the cases against Trump as reasons that he lost and have a point but also be yelling about a lot more unsubstantiated conspiratorial reasons as well. regardless expect more of the last 4 years so a sputtering dying economy paired with mass illegal immigration. the judiciary being turned on populist voices. the world seeing more wars start while America is schizoing to itself about whether to go all in and start/join a WW3 or cooler heads can prevail and realize that the populous has very little appetite for any war except maybe a civil one if pushed hard enough.

any potential Biden replacement actually does worse against Trump. Trying to appeal more to the prog base drives off the establishment types that are needed to win. they want the status quo that allows them to live the good life and virtue signal regardless of who gets hurt maintaining that system. trying to appeal to that status quo however will drive off those progs you also need to win. their coalition of radical revolutionaries and establishment types is fragile. Biden isn't liked. he is the least hated option. presumably because everyone knows he is a figurehead for the Obama legacies he has filled the admin with.

Regardless Dems said 2000 and 2016 were illegitamate elections. the right started thinking that too in 2020. regardless of who wins both sides got a big incentive to uses that narrative to galvanize their supporters.

You're basically right, the best we can hope for is that a Trump victory drives the super left wing half of the Democratic party so insane it really does force a split into the progressive and liberal halfs so that everyone can unite against the progressives who will show their ass upon being defeated.

 

[Zachowon]

Like I said, thank god Trump doesn't believe this nonsense because if he did he wouldn't have course corrected and be on track to winning big this year.


I just get tired of the black pilling I see here. There is definitely fraud, just as there's probably voter suppression in isolated cases across the country, but neither is a large scale problem nor should we be writing off victory as impossible because of it.


You're basically right, the best we can hope for is that a Trump victory drives the super left wing half of the Democratic party so insane it really does force a split into the progressive and liberal halfs so that everyone can unite against the progressives who will show their ass upon being defeated.

I am also tired of the blackpilling. 90% of the posts on here are anymore.
Trump gladly gave up trying to claim there was fraud and focused on other aspects. Focusing on tje fraud would kist make it worse for him.

 

[Typhonis]

What's the statute of limitations for fraud?

 

[IndyFront]

 

[Captain X]

He still calls Trump Hitler and advocates for overthrowing democracy. Also he's calling the Gaza thing a genocide. I wouldn't be surprised if he's Leftist and Democrats aren't Left enough for him.

 

[Terthna]

Like I said, thank god Trump doesn't believe this nonsense because if he did he wouldn't have course corrected and be on track to winning big this year.

"Nonsense" sure; because who cares about "evidence", am I right? That said, I will grant you that dropping the issue was probably for the best; but not for the reason you're thinking. Trump simply isn't any good at fighting legal battles like that, unless his opponents are blatantly misusing the legal system to persecute him. He's much better when he doesn't have to show his homework, so to speak.

I just get tired of the black pilling I see here. There is definitely fraud, just as there's probably voter suppression in isolated cases across the country, but neither is a large scale problem nor should we be writing off victory as impossible because of it.

Whereas I recognize that it is a large scale problem, and that we shouldn't be writing off victory as impossible because of it; because there are other factors involved, and forcing them to crank up the voter turnout to over 100% is a victory in and of itself, even if they do manage to pull it off a second time (which is not guaranteed for a multitude of reasons; including the sheer monetary cost of doing so).

 

[Zachowon]

It turns away more moderate voters

 

[Terthna]

It turns away more moderate voters

"Moderate" voters only ever vote for whomever the establishment tells them to, or not at all; so no loss there.

 

[Zachowon]

"Moderate" voters only ever vote for whomever the establishment tells them to, or not at all; so no loss there.

Moderates are the ones who win the elections

 

[Terthna]

Moderates are the ones who win the elections

What exactly do you mean by "Moderates"; and why does talking about provable election fraud turn them away?

 

[Zachowon]

What exactly do you mean by "Moderates"; and why does talking about provable election fraud turn them away?

Because the left can show so much evidence that because if various things nothing Trump said is true.
So him focusing on the election fraud stuff just gets more and more against him for those that don't like either side, but want something better.
The guy who will go out and claim things like fraud, and that they can dangle Jan 6th over hi head for it, ir he moves on past it and targets what Biden has done to support his argument

 

[IndyFront]

Trump is still leading but his advantage has shrunk it would seem

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/13/politics/presidential-race-near-even-split-biden-trump/index.html

 

[Rocinante]

What exactly do you mean by "Moderates"; and why does talking about provable election fraud turn them away?

Idk about moderates, but all the talk of election fraud really has seemed to hurt Trump from stuff I've seen.

Me? I watched the results of the Arizona audit live and posted here as I watched then. I've seen all the other evidence. I've seen the vans pull up at 3am, I've seen Biden get immediate sudden spikes just big enough to put him in the lead, I saw them kick out observers and cover windows. I watched the states change laws illegally.

Yes, widespread voter fraud happened. I wish it didn't. I wish we could just say Trump lost because we were in a pandemic, and hurting economically because of it. But the reality is that it did.

This time? So far we aren't facing the same circumstances that made it possible, and we're going to have a closer eye on things. I think Trump can still win.

BUT, even if it's true, running on the stolen election is not a good strategy for him, and he has realized this. That doesn't mean he doesn't believe it's true. It just means he's playing a smarter strategy.

 

[Captain X]

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Moderates are the ones who win the elections

Really? Because every time an American President whose a populist has won, he's one by polarizing the shit out of the moderates.