Trump Investigations Thread

[TheRejectionist]

Off topic : CIA stands for Cocaine-Importing Americans.

 

[Megadeath]

I'm also sure government organizations aren't supposed to make money, save for a select few, nor aid and abette criminal organizations.

Well... The CIA are one of those select few though? And as for aiding and abetting criminal organisations, that's common to basically every law enforcement and intelligence agency around the world. Now granted, the CIA have made some extremely poor choices in which scum suckers the shack up with and managed some of those bad relationships extremely poorly, but we're not here to debate the utility and ethics of American intelligence. That's veering wildly off topic. The point is, sending the IRS after the CIA is like setting a dog on the the Falcon 9. No way to do it, and nothing they could do if they actually got it.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Off topic : CIA stands for Cocaine-Importing Americans.

False.

Dark MAGA Republicans are the ones who import Cocaine into the United States. I have proof.

50 bricks of cocaine bearing Nazi symbols seized in Peru

Fifty bricks of South American cocaine wrapped in Nazi symbols destined for Belgium were intercepted by law enforcement in Peru, authorities said.

nypost.com

Only importing the purest White to Make America (Feel) Great Again.

 

[DarthOne]

False.

Dark MAGA Republicans are the ones who import Cocaine into the United States. I have proof.

50 bricks of cocaine bearing Nazi symbols seized in Peru

Fifty bricks of South American cocaine wrapped in Nazi symbols destined for Belgium were intercepted by law enforcement in Peru, authorities said.

nypost.com

Only importing the purest White to Make America (Feel) Great Again.

In before some idiot actually claims that.

 

[S'task]

I'm also sure government organizations aren't supposed to make money, save for a select few, nor aid and abette criminal organizations.

Ehh... government organizations are allowed to make money so long as its a core part of their responsibilities and goes back to supporting that mission. The Postal Service is perhaps the most obvious example of this, but, for instance, the US State Department's Bureau of Counselor Affairs often ends up making money due to the various fees collected to cover the costs of processing and printing Visas and Passports. Basically, parts of the Federal government are allowed to "make money" when it covers their operational costs and logically comes from supporting those. So, like, if you want a printout of a bill from the US Congress, they can charge you for that to cover the cost of time+printing, but they can't just go, say, wholesaling paper.

Note: the CIA drug running isn't part of it's core responsibilities. That is making off the books money or some scheme to launder money in order to use it for other things. It's shady and likely needs to be reigned in.

 

[Zachowon]

Ehh... government organizations are allowed to make money so long as its a core part of their responsibilities and goes back to supporting that mission. The Postal Service is perhaps the most obvious example of this, but, for instance, the US State Department's Bureau of Counselor Affairs often ends up making money due to the various fees collected to cover the costs of processing and printing Visas and Passports. Basically, parts of the Federal government are allowed to "make money" when it covers their operational costs and logically comes from supporting those. So, like, if you want a printout of a bill from the US Congress, they can charge you for that to cover the cost of time+printing, but they can't just go, say, wholesaling paper.

Note: the CIA drug running isn't part of it's core responsibilities. That is making off the books money or some scheme to launder money in order to use it for other things. It's shady and likely needs to be reigned in.

DoD has various ones like the first part.
We can be charged if we misplace things from CIF, and we also have the shoppettes, PXs, commissaries, AER, everything extra goes back to the military in some way to help.
Because the amenities thay are run are run not by the DoD federal but by agencies within.
So they have to make money, and other areas are to ensure programs within the military are able to support the soldiers in times of need.

 

[Megadeath]

Note: the CIA drug running isn't part of it's core responsibilities. That is making off the books money or some scheme to launder money in order to use it for other things. It's shady and likely needs to be reigned in.

That's debatable. I agree that it's shady and probably has several times gone too far with the wrong people. That said, of course espionage is shady. Everything they do at best walks the borders of morality. It's also a lot easier to see that a decision was bad in hindsight than it was to tell at the time. Especially when you're down in the gutters of intelligence field work with limited time and perspective for decision making.

As for the first part, I think your belief it's not part of their mission is coloured by your assumption immediately after. It may be about the money and needing it for some other task without any link between the US government and them spending it. Sometimes in intelligence that is necessary, or at least appears sufficiently so to justify the crime in serving their core responsibility. Other times though it's not about the money at all. It can be about maintaining cover for someone's identity. It can be about building a relationship with one bad guy so they will help you take down more or worse bad guys. It can be about giving a target enough rope to hang themselves or implicate and reveal their associates.

The problem is that whilst it's an imperfect system that certainly has produced failures, greater oversight and regulation simply increase the risk of compromising their core mission. They operate in a shit filled world so of course they're going to end up covered in shit themselves, and it's not a one player game so they lose sometimes too.

I'll repeat again though that this feels wildly off topic to a thread about trumps legal comeuppance. Given your own role I guess it can't be too bad to continue the discussion but all the same it's surely better if we do so elsewhere.

 

[Bacle]

That's debatable. I agree that it's shady and probably has several times gone too far with the wrong people. That said, of course espionage is shady. Everything they do at best walks the borders of morality. It's also a lot easier to see that a decision was bad in hindsight than it was to tell at the time. Especially when you're down in the gutters of intelligence field work with limited time and perspective for decision making.

As for the first part, I think your belief it's not part of their mission is coloured by your assumption immediately after. It may be about the money and needing it for some other task without any link between the US government and them spending it. Sometimes in intelligence that is necessary, or at least appears sufficiently so to justify the crime in serving their core responsibility. Other times though it's not about the money at all. It can be about maintaining cover for someone's identity. It can be about building a relationship with one bad guy so they will help you take down more or worse bad guys. It can be about giving a target enough rope to hang themselves or implicate and reveal their associates.

The problem is that whilst it's an imperfect system that certainly has produced failures, greater oversight and regulation simply increase the risk of compromising their core mission. They operate in a shit filled world so of course they're going to end up covered in shit themselves, and it's not a one player game so they lose sometimes too.

I'll repeat again though that this feels wildly off topic to a thread about trumps legal comeuppance. Given your own role I guess it can't be too bad to continue the discussion but all the same it's surely better if we do so elsewhere.

Trump is only in 'legal jeopordary' specifically because the US intel agencies have become so corrupt and abusive in their power and have so many friends like the Clinton's, Epstein, and Obama, and I say this as someone who voted for Obama twice.

So yes, the excesses of the intel agencies is directly tied to Trump's current issues.

 

[Cherico]

The Cia is absolutely involved in this. They make a lot of their off books money from criminal activity. They're working with cartels. They might be the biggest cartel for all we know.

honestly at this point the CIA has done much more damage to the US then its done to our enemies and its probally best for all of us just to shut them down and let the actually competent spy agencies take over.

 

[Zachowon]

They are to ingrained I'm our national defense sadly

 

[DarthOne]

They are to ingrained I'm our national defense sadly

Like hell.

 

[Zachowon]

Like hell.

Oh no they legit are.
It would basically cripple us heavily if we lost them.

 

[TheRejectionist]

There's the issue that those agencies won't let themselves be scattered to the wind. Remember what happened with FBI director? Everyone threat it like "threat to democracy".

 

[strunkenwhite]

It may be about the money and needing it for some other task without any link between the US government and them spending it. Sometimes in intelligence that is necessary, or at least appears sufficiently so to justify the crime in serving their core responsibility.

I'm gonna object to this part. If they really need money with no paper trail, they can ask Congress to figure out a way to cut a check that doesn't have strings attached. If Congress says no then maybe the CIA shouldn't be doing things Congress doesn't want it to do.

 

[Zachowon]

I'm gonna object to this part. If they really need money with no paper trail, they can ask Congress to figure out a way to cut a check that doesn't have strings attached. If Congress says no then maybe the CIA shouldn't be doing things Congress doesn't want it to do.

There is a caveat to this though.
Not everyone in congress has the clearance or need to know about what is going on in the sphere of intelligence.
Because we have multiple congresscritters that don't know how to keep thier mouths shut.

 

[King Arts]

There is a caveat to this though.
Not everyone in congress has the clearance or need to know about what is going on in the sphere of intelligence.
Because we have multiple congresscritters that don't know how to keep thier mouths shut.

Then stop being a democracy. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too. Our nation was designed to give lots of power to congress not the military or spooks those serve congress.

 

[Zachowon]

Then stop being a democracy. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too. Our nation was designed to give lots of power to congress not the military or spooks those serve congress.

We arnt a democracy.
We are a representative republic.

Well, we could allow for people in congress to have to be liable for a proper clearance.
But that would basically disqualify a lot of people already in government.

So maybe we should allow a clearance like that.

Also, the president can see it all though.
Because the military is to defend the nation.
We can't defend the nation without keeping things secret.
Or else our enemies make life very VERY difficult and we get things like 9/11 all over again on a larger level...
Constantly.
Because we can't do shit.

 

[Bacle]

We arnt a democracy.
We are a representative republic.

Well, we could allow for people in congress to have to be liable for a proper clearance.
But that would basically disqualify a lot of people already in government.

So maybe we should allow a clearance like that.

Also, the president can see it all though.
Because the military is to defend the nation.
We can't defend the nation without keeping things secret.
Or else our enemies make life very VERY difficult and we get things like 9/11 all over again on a larger level...
Constantly.
Because we can't do shit.

Zach, you might want to ask the budding black middle class that was gutted by by CIA pushed/supplied crack cocaine whether of not the secrets of our intel services are always worth the domestic cost.

Because when the CIA abuses it's own citizenry on their own soil, and gets away with it because they are 'too valuable', is it a surprise when more and more of the citizenry treat any intel service as a likely/proven domestic abuser.

How many ruined lives via CIA-controlled cartels pushing shit into the populace, sometimes to gut possible threats (the black middle class after WW2 was considered a threat, just look at what the FBI did to MLK), is the agency worth?

Why can the CIA's worthwhile assets and activities not be shift to agencies with less corruption and domestic abuses on their record?

 

[Zachowon]

Zach, you might want to ask the budding black middle class that was gutted by by CIA pushed/supplied crack cocaine whether of not the secrets of our intel services are always worth the domestic cost.

Because when the CIA abuses it's own citizenry on their own soil, and gets away with it because they are 'too valuable', is it a surprise when more and more of the citizenry treat any intel service as a likely/proven domestic abuser.

How many ruined lives via CIA-controlled cartels pushing shit into the populace, sometimes to gut possible threats (the black middle class after WW2 was considered a threat, just look at what the FBI did to MLK), is the agency worth?

Why can the CIA's worthwhile assets and activities not be shift to agencies with less corruption and domestic abuses on their record?

It is possible, but in order for that to happen though, takes time, and can not be done over night, as well as a complete restructuring would take decades.
It would basically revolve and giving it to the DIA, and spreading out the assets to tje NSA, DIA mainly.
It would be something possible, but could also lead to the burning of thousands of assets, and potentially the exposer of a multitude of methods.

Though, any answer I give would be louded as me sucking off the IC as a Glowie....
Because yall hate the NSA just as much.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Seems like the bureaucrats and alphabet agencies have become something akin to the gang of four for the US.