The shelves are getting empty

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Instead if sending your ship to sit there for a long fucking time, you could sent it from the port of exit, to Panama, then to the east coast (Southern)
They could, and they should.

But that would cost fuel and canal transit fees.

And from the rumors I've been hearing about the backlog and the motivations of the large shipping companies...their upper management/owners are making a killing on container prices and ship slot priority.

So they are not really terribly interested in speeding things up or clearing up the problems in the supply chain, as long as the backlog and maritime traffic jam help thier personal profit margins.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
It isn't as simple as 'just send the ships to the East coast instead.'

Even discounting the costs of travelling that far, those cargoes are being sent to western ports for a reason. There's an entire logistical distribution infrastructure that they're already plugged into and planning on using to move those goods once they're off the boat.

In order to do it on the East coast instead, they'd need to both break contracts with those already involved in distribution, and make new contracts with other groups. They'd need to plan, implement, and correct entirely new networks of logistics, or if they're already large enough of a company to be operating from both ends, radically rework the networks they already have in place.

If they have to wait a week to unload at LA/Long Beach, everything still works through the estalbished channels and patterns, just later and slower.

If they have to unload at the East coast, some of their cargo would then have to be shipped all the way back across the USA to California, etc.


If things get bad enough, they'll start changing what they're sending on what boats so that some traffic can be diverted to the East coast, but if a ship is already packed with cargo intended for the West coast, it's incredibly complicated and more than just some fuel and transit fees to get cargo handled through different ports.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
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More states should have inland ones like GA.
Basically, it unloads the ships and immediately on trains and sent to another spot much further inland to be organized and sent from there.
Passed by one all the time on my way from GA to TN when I live inTN
Virginia also has a major inland port around Winchester, and the port at Norfolk is much more automated than west coast ports to my understanding...

Of course, that's in part due to Virginia being a right to work state (for now), the Longshoremen can't monopolize port labor here so they don't have the power to prevent needed upgrades like they do on the west coast.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Virginia also has a major inland port around Winchester, and the port at Norfolk is much more automated than west coast ports to my understanding...

Of course, that's in part due to Virginia being a right to work state (for now), the Longshoremen can't monopolize port labor here so they don't have the power to prevent needed upgrades like they do on the west coast.
GA is also a right to work state
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
Instead if sending your ship to sit there for a long fucking time, you could sent it from the port of exit, to Panama, then to the east coast (Southern)

As others have explained, it doesn't work that way. You need to access the internal distribution network of the US itself. In order for that idea to work, you'd need to establish new roads, companies, and probably even write new laws to make that possible. And it would still spike price costs and it would still not be enough. Because there's around a half million job shortages for truck drivers.

Companies are stuck in the between. They can't get the goods they need, because they lack alternative infrastructures and factories. To establish those infrastructures and factories, they would need to invest large amounts of time and money. And by that time, the problem may have passed--therefore, doing so would be a waste.

I can't wait until January.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
As others have explained, it doesn't work that way. You need to access the internal distribution network of the US itself. In order for that idea to work, you'd need to establish new roads, companies, and probably even write new laws to make that possible. And it would still spike price costs and it would still not be enough. Because there's around a half million job shortages for truck drivers.

Companies are stuck in the between. They can't get the goods they need, because they lack alternative infrastructures and factories. To establish those infrastructures and factories, they would need to invest large amounts of time and money. And by that time, the problem may have passed--therefore, doing so would be a waste.

I can't wait until January.

This is the last 'good' year the global economy is going to have the boomers start retiring on mass next year thats the tipping point that means all the money sloshing around the system vanishes for a generation.

A lot of people and countries are going to be hit hard with cold water and reality.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
GA is also a right to work state
Hooray Texas!
Yes? The South in general is right to work and so far has resisted the efforts to change that, even in local factory levels.
industryweek_2545_right_work_states_map.png


It's why so many manufacturing companies have been moving to the US South over the last few decades.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Yes? The South in general is right to work and so far has resisted the efforts to change that, even in local factory levels.
industryweek_2545_right_work_states_map.png


It's why so many manufacturing companies have been moving to the US South over the last few decades.
Huh, never really noticed that.
I just know the three companies I worked for after school, and before the Army, all said "DontJoin Unions"
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
People wonder why I will side with Walmart and all that.
Because they don't like unions
 

Abhishekm

Well-known member
People wonder why I will side with Walmart and all that.
Because they don't like unions
Meh, unions can be shitty yes but companies can be shitty with or without unions too.

Follow India, Ban Walmart. Mostly for people in countries outside the US. If your going to have supermarkets dominate that lower middle class nad upper lowerclass niche might as well make it local ones.
 
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Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Meh, unions can be shitty yes but companies can be shitty with or without unions too.

Follow India, Ban Walmart. Mostly for people in countries outside the US. If your going to have supermarkets dominate that lower middle class nad upper lowercase niche might as well make it local ones.
Target is upper middle.
Walmart is the working man's store besides local.

We have plenty if small stores in my hometown with at least 2 Walmart nit far from each other, a target, multiple other chain stores as well.
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
This is the last 'good' year the global economy is going to have the boomers start retiring on mass next year thats the tipping point that means all the money sloshing around the system vanishes for a generation.

A lot of people and countries are going to be hit hard with cold water and reality.

That is true, but what I'm thinking about is the Olympic Games...hosted in China. The Biden Admin is strongly leaning in favor of boycotting the games because of the various genocides that China is perpetuating against its minorities. Doing so would instigate a response from China. And the theory that some (such as Zeihan) is putting forward, is that this would be the final nail in the coffin for the US-Chinese relationship. Trade would end. And all the economic shocks you might expect will hit both the US and China in full force.

So expect things like fridges, stoves, microwaves, cars, and other things that require Chinese assembly or mid-range microchips to become both scarce and costly. Add that to the tens of millions who will retire in the next two years and you lose a lot of investment capital. But what I've also seen is that roughly four million Americans left their jobs this past summer. With less lockdowns, less government money, and less chances of getting sick.

The source seems to be a mixture of burnout, a disgust with corporate culture, and rising pressure from lack of workers. This is probably going to be the perfect storm.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
That is true, but what I'm thinking about is the Olympic Games...hosted in China. The Biden Admin is strongly leaning in favor of boycotting the games because of the various genocides that China is perpetuating against its minorities. Doing so would instigate a response from China. And the theory that some (such as Zeihan) is putting forward, is that this would be the final nail in the coffin for the US-Chinese relationship. Trade would end. And all the economic shocks you might expect will hit both the US and China in full force.

So expect things like fridges, stoves, microwaves, cars, and other things that require Chinese assembly or mid-range microchips to become both scarce and costly. Add that to the tens of millions who will retire in the next two years and you lose a lot of investment capital. But what I've also seen is that roughly four million Americans left their jobs this past summer. With less lockdowns, less government money, and less chances of getting sick.

The source seems to be a mixture of burnout, a disgust with corporate culture, and rising pressure from lack of workers. This is probably going to be the perfect storm.
Greece already gave in to China.

it will be the start of everything going down
 

Cherico

Well-known member
That is true, but what I'm thinking about is the Olympic Games...hosted in China. The Biden Admin is strongly leaning in favor of boycotting the games because of the various genocides that China is perpetuating against its minorities. Doing so would instigate a response from China. And the theory that some (such as Zeihan) is putting forward, is that this would be the final nail in the coffin for the US-Chinese relationship. Trade would end. And all the economic shocks you might expect will hit both the US and China in full force.

So expect things like fridges, stoves, microwaves, cars, and other things that require Chinese assembly or mid-range microchips to become both scarce and costly. Add that to the tens of millions who will retire in the next two years and you lose a lot of investment capital. But what I've also seen is that roughly four million Americans left their jobs this past summer. With less lockdowns, less government money, and less chances of getting sick.

The source seems to be a mixture of burnout, a disgust with corporate culture, and rising pressure from lack of workers. This is probably going to be the perfect storm.

2020 was a posioned chalice.
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
2020 was a posioned chalice.

Exactly that. The progressives and technocrats sort of shot themselves in the foot. Biden doesn't have the vision or will to drive us back towards a globalist world again. Sure, he TALKS about it, but what does he do? He abandons the Middle East, just as Trump planned. He makes moves and appoints people that continues to damage the US's trade relations with China. He continues to close bases all across the planet. He more or less ignores Russia. He doesn't protect oil shipments. Meanwhile, he's racked over the coals by the media for his "heartless" decisions, the staggering economy, the lack of a progressive bent, and even they can't keep people from realizing that he's not entirely there.

And what will happen? Either he stays and continues to drag the party into bitter in-fighting over the next 3 years or is replaced by Kamala, a woman so popular she nosedived in the polls only two or so months into the DNC debates. A woman who has been handed too much responsibility and taken more credit than was good for her. Add in the constant attempts to pay people to stay home, the soon coming shortage of Boomer capital, the growing demands on worker rights, and a possible all-out-cold-war with China...things are not looking bright for the DNC.

There is a strong possibility that Trump will return in 2024 and he will be victorious.
 
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