The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
That's the thing that irritates me the most; they're essentially begging Biden to strip their state of its right to govern itself, which is ironic considering how the Democrats were all about states' rights when Trump was president. Except not really ironic, because we all know these people have never and will never have any principles whatsoever; they just want power, and will do or say anything to get/keep it.

They have principles, you just can't see them from your own.

Most moderates or conservatives tend to hit the six points of morality; karma, liberty, sanctity, authority, loyalty, and compassion. But Liberals tend to focus mostly on compassion and liberty. These liberals believe that because these laws will restrict voting access, it will do harm. They don't see the authority of the government or loyalty to their people as binding in the light of what harm might be inflicted on certain individuals. They will break any oath, they will undermine any law. Expecting them to do any different is a waste of time.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
They have principles, you just can't see them from your own.

Most moderates or conservatives tend to hit the six points of morality; karma, liberty, sanctity, authority, loyalty, and compassion. But Liberals tend to focus mostly on compassion and liberty. These liberals believe that because these laws will restrict voting access, it will do harm. They don't see the authority of the government or loyalty to their people as binding in the light of what harm might be inflicted on certain individuals. They will break any oath, they will undermine any law. Expecting them to do any different is a waste of time.
I'm a liberal; and from where I'm sitting, these people don't actually care about compassion or liberty. All they care about is themselves.
 

f1onagher

Well-known member
The bullshit Texas Dems get up to is infuriating. The last time they walked out was in 2003 to stop a redistricting effort by the newly ascendant Republicans. This was of course treated as a heroic stand against evil Republican cheating, which conveniently ignored the fact that the state was already gerrymandered something like D+10. A Dem appointed judge blocked the effort unilaterally anyway and it took until 2010 for the Republicans to horrifically gerrymander the state to the democracy crushing bias of R+4.

The Texas Republican party gets up to lots of bullshit like their recent change of Senate majority rules, but no matter how funky it gets it always pales next to the flagrantly abusive and authoritarian shit the Democrats did and still do to this day. I live here and get to watch the slow return to the bad old days where east Texas abuses the rest of the state for its own ends, a habit that only lessened under the Republican regime. I really do pray that the southern counties continue to trend red else we'll be up to our elbows in petty bullshit at the cosmopolitan pricks in the Triangle punish the rest of the state for existing.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
The bullshit Texas Dems get up to is infuriating. The last time they walked out was in 2003 to stop a redistricting effort by the newly ascendant Republicans. This was of course treated as a heroic stand against evil Republican cheating, which conveniently ignored the fact that the state was already gerrymandered something like D+10. A Dem appointed judge blocked the effort unilaterally anyway and it took until 2010 for the Republicans to horrifically gerrymander the state to the democracy crushing bias of R+4.

The Texas Republican party gets up to lots of bullshit like their recent change of Senate majority rules, but no matter how funky it gets it always pales next to the flagrantly abusive and authoritarian shit the Democrats did and still do to this day. I live here and get to watch the slow return to the bad old days where east Texas abuses the rest of the state for its own ends, a habit that only lessened under the Republican regime. I really do pray that the southern counties continue to trend red else we'll be up to our elbows in petty bullshit at the cosmopolitan pricks in the Triangle punish the rest of the state for existing.

and thats pretty much how the rest of california feel about frisco and LA.
 

49ersfootball

Well-known member
The bullshit Texas Dems get up to is infuriating. The last time they walked out was in 2003 to stop a redistricting effort by the newly ascendant Republicans. This was of course treated as a heroic stand against evil Republican cheating, which conveniently ignored the fact that the state was already gerrymandered something like D+10. A Dem appointed judge blocked the effort unilaterally anyway and it took until 2010 for the Republicans to horrifically gerrymander the state to the democracy crushing bias of R+4.

The Texas Republican party gets up to lots of bullshit like their recent change of Senate majority rules, but no matter how funky it gets it always pales next to the flagrantly abusive and authoritarian shit the Democrats did and still do to this day. I live here and get to watch the slow return to the bad old days where east Texas abuses the rest of the state for its own ends, a habit that only lessened under the Republican regime. I really do pray that the southern counties continue to trend red else we'll be up to our elbows in petty bullshit at the cosmopolitan pricks in the Triangle punish the rest of the state for existing.
There's a good chance Abbott might sweep the Rio Grande Valley in 2022.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
They have principles, you just can't see them from your own.

Most moderates or conservatives tend to hit the six points of morality; karma, liberty, sanctity, authority, loyalty, and compassion. But Liberals tend to focus mostly on compassion and liberty. These liberals believe that because these laws will restrict voting access, it will do harm. They don't see the authority of the government or loyalty to their people as binding in the light of what harm might be inflicted on certain individuals. They will break any oath, they will undermine any law. Expecting them to do any different is a waste of time.
I got to ask, why do you keep harping on that '6 points of morality' thing like it actually matters to the wider social and political conversation?

Before you brought it up, I'd never even heard of any scale like that, and I don't know anyone on the Left who actually even thinks of 'morality' in those sort of gradational terms.

It feel like just another way to try to quantify exactly how 'righteous' the Right is/how 'horrible' the Left is, and it misses a lot of the realities of their views in the desire for a 'metric' to measure your own moral superiority.
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
I got to ask, why do you keep harping on that '6 points of morality' thing like it actually matters to the wider social and political conversation?

Before you brought it up, I'd never even heard of any scale like that, and I don't know anyone on the Left who actually even thinks of 'morality' in those sort of gradational terms.

It feel like just another way to try to quantify exactly how 'righteous' the Right is/how 'horrible' the Left is, and it misses a lot of the realities of their views in the desire for a 'metric' to measure your own moral superiority.
I'd suggest reading Haidt's "The Righteous Mind."

He researches this. If he's not the one who came up with the theory himself, he did a lot of research to prove it.

Essentially both the left and right think they are righteous, but the right is more spread out amongst the different points, whereas the left is mostly focussed on one or two.

In other words, morality for the right is more well rounded.
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
Here's a graph that explains it better.

Haidt lays out these moral foundations, and these moral foundations drive people's politics.

The right is mostly equally distributed about all of the foundations, while the left focuses so heavily on the care/harm foundation that they don't even look at the others

(Size of the arrows indicates the Importance of these foundations)

PxBciUx.jpg
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
I'd suggest reading Haidt's "The Righteous Mind."

He researches this. If he's not the one who came up with the theory himself, he did a lot of research to prove it.

Essentially both the left and right think they are righteous, but the right is more spread out amongst the different points, whereas the left is mostly focussed on one or two.

In other words, morality for the right is more well rounded.
I'd suggest reading Haidt's "The Righteous Mind."

He researches this. If he's not the one who came up with the theory himself, he did a lot of research to prove it.

Essentially both the left and right think they are righteous, but the right is more spread out amongst the different points, whereas the left is mostly focused on one or two.

In other words, morality for the right is more well rounded.
Never heard of Haidt before now.

I feel like that scale is woefully inadequate for the reality of how morality is formed across cultures and time, and is mostly based on the assumptions certain Western groups.
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
Never heard of Haidt before now.

I feel like that scale is woefully inadequate for the reality of how morality is formed across cultures and time, and is mostly based on the assumptions certain Western groups.
It's based on modern US left/right.

Haidt is incredible. I'd suggest all of his books really. He's also a great narrator If you're into audio books.

I think he's pretty accurate. He's not really saying the right or left is better, but just researching into what makes them tick. In his research he found that the right is evenly spread between these foundations, and the left is HEAVILY concerned with the care/harm foundation.

I really can't disagree with him after reading the book.

He's Not using that info to make a judgement on these people, that's something you can do on your own. Haidt is simply outlining the "why," rather than casting judgement.

Which is indicated by the sub title of the book I previously recommended: "why good people are divided by politics and religion."
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
It's based on modern US left/right.

Haidt is incredible. I'd suggest all of his books really. He's also a great narrator If you're into audio books.

I think he's pretty accurate. He's not really saying the right or left is better, but just researching into what makes them tick. In his research he found that the right is evenly spread between these foundations, and the left is HEAVILY concerned with the care/harm foundation.

I really can't disagree with him after reading the book.

He's Not using that info to make a judgement on these people, that's something you can do on your own. Haidt is simply outlining the "why," rather than casting judgement.

Which is indicated by the sub title of the book I previously recommended: "why good people are divided by politics and religion."
Be as that may (and from what I've been presented thus far, I'm not impressed), it's still annoying how The Original Sixth keeps going on about the guy's "six points of morality" in damn near every conversation he's been in as of late.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Keeping my fingers crossed Abbott gets 20-25% of African Americans & 50+% of Latinos in 2022.

In 2018, Abbott won 16% of African Americans & 42% of Latinos.
The former head of the Texas GOP has entered as a primary challenger, and is a black man himself.

Abbott is cannot rest on his laurels this time, and you can bet the Dems will be taking great interest in this race.

A Dem gov in Texas is the a big step to turning the state blue and reversing the GOPs power in the state.
 

Laskar

Would you kindly?
Founder
Yeah, fleeing the state to block a quorum is beyond scummy. Sometimes, you lose elections. Sometimes, you even lose elections to the point that existing mechanisms that shield political minorities don't work, because you lost the election that badly. Tough. That's how democracy works, sometimes you lose.

Wisconsin had a similar issue with lawmakers fleeing the state, they changed the rules to prevent that from working. Texas really needs a similar change.

Luckily, they do have a provision that let's them lock the legislature to keep lawmakers from leaving, so once they drag the cowards back to work, they can keep them there while they fix this loophole.
Mmm. I'm of two minds here.

In 2019, Republicans walked out of the Oregon state house to prevent a carbon tax bill from being passed, a bill that would have absolutely murdered industry in the south and east of the state. Loggers and truckers came from all corners of the state to protest, and when the Dems decided to pass it with an emergency clause that would have prevented a referendum, the Republicans stepped out and ran to Idaho. As a condition for their return, the massively unpopular bill was tabled.

In extreme circumstances, it's a valid tactic, and I wouldn't be surprised to find the people who howled and screamed that the Republicans had a job to vote have turned around and lauded these Democrats for 'saving democracy.'

Not to say that I support this case. The facts don't warrant the action. If the Democrats are walking out over this bill, they've either drunk the Kool-aid or they think they can't get re-elected without cheating.

That said, the private-airfare with no masking the Dems used in this case, and the image of them on the bus with a case of Miller Lite on one of the seats is chuckle-worthy and some biting hypocrisy/bad-optics.
Miller Lite? Seriously?
I would have expected a box of wine.
 

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