Fallout The Eagle And The Bear [Fallout AU]

[Floridaman]

Guaymas is also too far south and in too rugged terrain for a quick armoured thrust to cut off the Cassandra Line. Professionals study logistics.

Wouldn’t the port of Pichilingue be a better choice, due to being a peninsula it would not take as many men to open up a second front there, and could be used as a way to force the NCR to redirect troops to the home front.

 

[TyrantTriumphant]

If I was the Enclave I wouldn't bother to conquer the NCR at all. I would just push them back to the Rocky Mountains and then try to get some sort of face saving agreement with the with them. Anything more is a waste of time and resources. After the Enclave has absorbed their new territory they can deal with the NCR from a more advantageous position in the future.

 

[Floridaman]

If I was the Enclave I wouldn't bother to conquer the NCR at all. I would just push them back to the Rocky Mountains and then try to get some sort of face saving agreement with the with them. Anything more is a waste of time and resources. After the Enclave has absorbed their new territory they can deal with the NCR from a more advantageous position in the future.

They can't politically for the same reason the Union couldn't permit the south leaving. If a state is allowed to leave the union then every presidential election someone will want out.

 

[Navarro]

They can't politically for the same reason the Union couldn't permit the south leaving. If a state is allowed to leave the union then every presidential election someone will want out.

Not only that, to make any sort of deal with the NCR is to legitimise them as a sovereign nation - which DESTROYS the main pillar of the US Federal Government's claim to legitimacy, namely that they're the continuation of the pre-War Government (which is actually correct in much the same way as the Roman Empire lasted until 1453). They were able to handle Texas under the fiction that it was a "regional government" which was just taking its time to reintegrate (and nevertheless spent a lot of propaganda effort and money on making sure that it went in that direction over decades), but the NCR? Who they have been hostile with for almost a century, who have gone so far as to persecute their children?

I mean, when the NCR imprisons for life or executes captured Enclave soldiers after Navarro, down to the children, because they all committed war crimes don'tchaknow and we have to avoid an infiltration over multiple generations, that teaches the E-US that the NCR arbitrarily uses "war crimes" to justify an extermination campaign against the US Govt. and military. And when it shoots at E-US diplomats because it believes wholeheartedly that they're just emissaries of Sauron tricking people into being enslaved by Mordor, it teaches them that the NCR rejects completely one of the most basic international laws ever to have existed, one of the literal cornerstones of civilised conduct. Why bother trying to talk to such people?

It also ignores the issues on the NCR side with such a deal. The least of which is that to the vast majority of the populace it looks like "we'll let the genocidal maniacs who already control half the continent eat our BOS allies and Texas and maintain armies near our eastern border". Not to mention the sunk-cost issues of admitting that everything the NCR did after Navarro was a mistake ...

 

[Navarro]

The allies they are bringing in consist of; 1.press ganged bandits with very limited training and discipline 2. Communist Chinese that probably see this as a chance to finally get even for WWIII.

The Gran Colombian army, to be fair, is a professional, well-heeled military ... for early WW2.

 

[SuperHeavy]

The Gran Colombian army, to be fair, is a professional, well-heeled military ... for early WW2.

Well they will have the discipline to die standing at least. Those poor bastards sound like they don't even have SLAP rounds and kevlar body armor.

 

[Kioras]

The biggest issue long term the EUSA might have is that since they are unable to make any sort of peace or cease fire, this is a war to the death where they have to cross the Rocky Mountains and over 1,000 miles away from their industrial heartland to end the war.

They have to go through the Brotherhood areas in the northern Great Plains and that is likely to tie down a lot of people, along with potentially trying to force their way through the various forts the NCR has built.

If it was possible to get a cease fire I could see just absorbing and then culturally unifying the former brotherhood area while getting ready for the next war in a generation. There is no such option since they will reduce to treat with the NCR as anything other then rebellious provinces.

They do have a strong economy and once the invasion is stopped a much better farming base to feed everyone. This will play into a much higher population In the long term.

EUSA’s ambition I think is a major negative for them, especially since even if the NCR starts to lose they have buffer states between them and EUSA that can buy them some time to build defenses.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The biggest issue long term the EUSA might have is that since they are unable to make any sort of peace or cease fire, this is a war to the death where they have to cross the Rocky Mountains and over 1,000 miles away from their industrial heartland to end the war.

They have to go through the Brotherhood areas in the northern Great Plains and that is likely to tie down a lot of people, along with potentially trying to force their way through the various forts the NCR has built.

If it was possible to get a cease fire I could see just absorbing and then culturally unifying the former brotherhood area while getting ready for the next war in a generation. There is no such option since they will reduce to treat with the NCR as anything other then rebellious provinces.

They do have a strong economy and once the invasion is stopped a much better farming base to feed everyone. This will play into a much higher population In the long term.

EUSA’s ambition I think is a major negative for them, especially since even if the NCR starts to lose they have buffer states between them and EUSA that can buy them some time to build defenses.

It will take a LONG time to convince the NCR they're NOT the monsters they say they are in those occupied areas

Though, I think NCR would have an even harder time taking over the Enclave territories, it'd be sheer gaslighting on a constant everyday basis

Not helped that the NCR's Brahmin Barons and New Reno crime bosses would probably want a cut of the pie and to start operations there.

Lots of people would get pretty desperate due to whatever the NCR does to the local economy, New Reno crime lords startup human trafficking and forced prostitution when they see the opportunity.

What the Enclave at the very least has an advantage, is that life in their territory's better than NCR or Brotherhood and both's allies, no one will want to live as a serf to some Brotherhood-Knight/Lord with dumb views on technology, nor will they like those "hidalgos" coming in and NCR forces disarming them and making them more vulnerable to the scum from NCR

Sure, NCR leadership doesn't like the "allies" they have in their territory, but those guys are by now entrenched and have connections

 

[SuperHeavy]

Though, I think NCR would have an even harder time taking over the Enclave territories, it'd be sheer gaslighting on a constant everyday basis

Not helped that the NCR's Brahmin Barons and New Reno crime bosses would probably want a cut of the pie and to start operations there.

The worst is the NCR after war planning to move all useful industries over to the core territories, basically gutting their economies, while leaving the rest of the US as resource extraction. That is not quite the best way to drum up support in the native population even if you think you're freeing a slave population.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The worst is the NCR after war planning to move all useful industries over to the core territories, basically gutting their economies, while leaving the rest of the US as resource extraction. That is not quite the best way to drum up support in the native population even if you think you're freeing a slave population.

They probably never thought there was much industry that wasn’t horrible around Enclave land to begin with

I think the thing with the Brahmin Barons and New Reno crime families, the CCP and the Hidalgos are things which will take decades to deal with and that’s presuming NCR leadership hasn’t been bribed, replaced and/or compromised by then

The NCR and Brotherhood have an ambition of their own and if they don’t expand they die quickly

The NCR won’t have an enemy to justify it abiding with all those corrupt douchebags

And the Brotherhood’s Knights want/need lands and fiefdoms for each and every single one of them

The Enclave can afford to temper or slowdown their ambition. The other two cannot.

 

[SuperHeavy]

Thinking about it I wonder if the Motherload robot from Fallout 76, assuming it is canon here, could be used to break the super-bunkers the BoS has been building. The thing could chew through rock like a fish through water and I doubt concrete or steel will slow it much. With a bit of reprogramming you could have it cut a path for invading PA or gnaw through critical infrastructure.

 

[Navarro]

The worst is the NCR after war planning to move all useful industries over to the core territories, basically gutting their economies, while leaving the rest of the US as resource extraction. That is not quite the best way to drum up support in the native population even if you think you're freeing a slave population.

It goes back to the ideological mutation from "the mission of the NCR is to restore the USA" to "the mission of the NCR is to become Greater California".

 

[Navarro]

Teaser for later.

Valdez-Class Battleship

The Valdez class represents the largest class of seagoing warship in the world, being approximately 3930 feet long, 328 feet wide and 49 feet high above sea level. They originated not as warships but as part of Poseidon Energy's pre-War fleet of megascale oil supertankers - approximately 18 ships, of which 7 would survive the nuclear exchange either en route to their destinations, in drydock, or run aground on various beaches (one, being destroyed mid-refit), one of which was the celebrated vessel which assisted in the destruction of Control Station ENCLAVE. Now the six vessels of the class - no more of which can be produced - are considered the NCR Navy's heaviest hitters after extensive up-armouring and modification to better fulfill the role of a warship.

Each Valdez has eight main gun-turrets, each carrying three 16.5" chemically-propelled guns and sixteen secondary gun-turrets, each carrying two 6" guns. To maximise use of deck space they are located around the edges of the vessel rather than down its centre as per the pre-War configuration. The large amount of otherwise useless deck space between the batteries is largely taken up by aircraft landing zones - a Valdez typically carries 20 Condor fighters, 20 Buzzard close-air-support planes, and 20 vertibirds for troop deployment - and by anti-air electro-laser cannons.

The normal speed of a Valdez is 15 knots - the engines can be pushed to 20 knots, but this is dangerous when done for significant stretches of time. It also typically take from thirty-to forty-five minutes to perform a ninety-degree turn, up to an hour to carry out a 180-degree turn. Its escorts (Dayglow-class cruisers or Ranger Seth-class destroyers) typically find themselves forced to move significantly behind maximum speed to keep pace with the mighty vessels ...

 

[Kioras]

Valdez-Class

Is the NCR crazy?

These ships would have been about 170 years old in Fallout 2 and despite likely being somewhat maintained They would have suffered another 100 years of ocean weathering since then.

It would have cost a small fortune to repair these vessels to get them going, not to mention the fact they likely sit well over 100 feet deep in drought.

The ships should have been broken down, the steel res melted to make new ships on a more reasonable scale.

Right now with that top speed and terrible turn radius they seem nothing more then torpedo targets, ones that have a truly insane amount of material and effort tied into them.

Especially as they still have to go all the way around, crossing South America. EUSA if they have subs are probably going to laugh at them turning it into a super battleship. Building a fleet of Iowa class ships with Fallout Technology might have been much easier then refurbishing these ships and have a better effect.

With how slow they are, any sort of gun line fight would have them crossing the T multiple times.

The other issue is that due to the up armor probably making the sit even heavier in the water they will be limited on how close they can get to shore.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Teaser for later.

Valdez-Class Battleship

The Valdez class represents the largest class of seagoing warship in the world, being approximately 3930 feet long, 328 feet wide and 49 feet high above sea level. They originated not as warships but as part of Poseidon Energy's pre-War fleet of megascale oil supertankers - approximately 18 ships, of which 7 would survive the nuclear exchange either en route to their destinations, in drydock, or run aground on various beaches (one, being destroyed mid-refit), one of which was the celebrated vessel which assisted in the destruction of Control Station ENCLAVE. Now the six vessels of the class - no more of which can be produced - are considered the NCR Navy's heaviest hitters after extensive up-armouring and modification to better fulfill the role of a warship.

Each Valdez has eight main gun-turrets, each carrying three 16.5" chemically-propelled guns and sixteen secondary gun-turrets, each carrying two 6" guns. To maximise use of deck space they are located around the edges of the vessel rather than down its centre as per the pre-War configuration. The large amount of otherwise useless deck space between the batteries is largely taken up by aircraft landing zones - a Valdez typically carries 20 Condor fighters, 20 Buzzard close-air-support planes, and 20 vertibirds for troop deployment - and by anti-air electro-laser cannons.

The normal speed of a Valdez is 15 knots - the engines can be pushed to 20 knots, but this is dangerous when done for significant stretches of time. It also typically take from thirty-to forty-five minutes to perform a ninety-degree turn, up to an hour to carry out a 180-degree turn. Its escorts (Dayglow-class cruisers or Ranger Seth-class destroyers) typically find themselves forced to move significantly behind maximum speed to keep pace with the mighty vessels ...

Doesn't seem like those ships could survive an engagement with US Navy ships

 

[Navarro]

Yeah ... perhaps having only NCS Valdez as a unique hilariously large superbattlecarrier would be better than a flotilla of same.

 

[Kioras]

Yeah ... perhaps having only NCS Valdez as a unique hilariously large superbattlecarrier would be better than a flotilla of same.

I can see the Valdez after FO2 getting dry docked, the hull properly repaired and reinforced as a sort of floating island and support ship for the NCR navy.

It is a historically significant ship in their myths too. USS Texas is falling apart right now as a dreadnought.

So yeah, having it a mix of Super Carrier and fleet support ship makes sense, especially if it leans more on fleet support ship for a strike force towards EUSA Eastern seaboard.

Depending on how advanced the NCR is with Gauss, Rail gun and Fusion technology they could just as easily have a moderate fleet of 70-150k ton super battleships designed for beyond the horizon bombardment and not be sitting ducks.

That would give them a gun line that is strong and also let them go ahead and progress in ship building from 2-20k ton Destroyers, 8-40k ton cruisers, 15-75k ton light carriers, 40-80k ton fleet carriers, 40-80 Battleships and then the big 70-150k ton Super Carriers and Super battleships.

Once they got interested in Shipbuilding they would have many of the first ships be very similar to Fusion driven WW2 era ships and rapidly expand in size as they get larger. A small fusion powered Fletcher class ship would be a perfect place to start and make a mockery of any would be pirates.

This would also have the advantage of them being able to get a better handle on the threat environment with a variety of ships.

A Fleet of Valdez seems like something they could instead use as a bluff or misdirection.

Also 50 years since the end of Fallout Las Vegas, 90 years from the end of Fallout 2 is plenty of time for a nation to teach itself ship building.

 

[SuperHeavy]

Yeah ... perhaps having only NCS Valdez as a unique hilariously large superbattlecarrier would be better than a flotilla of same.

Might I suggest having the ships act as "super" aircraft carriers that are designed to swamp superior Enclave laser air defense with its large air wing while staying far away from retaliation.

 

[Navarro]

The Heavy Battleship USS Columbia in a Shipbucket-style image. Will eventually go back and add a landing pad at the stern, add more details (esp. round the turrets).

 

[Duke Nukem]

The Heavy Battleship USS Columbia in a Shipbucket-style image. Will eventually go back and add a landing pad at the stern, add more details (esp. round the turrets).

Nice. how does it hold up to modern ships?