United States Texas shooting: Fifteen killed in attack on US Elementary School

[Aaron Fox]

Why does everyone keep shitting on the second amendment? If we could stop school shooters by ripping up another part would that be ok? Cause guess what we could copy the Nazi method and just execute anyone with mental health issues and that would remove school shooters. It would also improve the gene pool I’d prefer that over banning guns.

Because people like to think one thing despite the reality being quite another thing.

People forget that... the 2nd Amendment became impudent the moment it was signed at the earliest (due to the Thirty Years War being the earliest point where artillery was the primary arm of battle), during the Napoleonics being the more accepted period (for being the definitive point where artillery is the primary arm of battle), and on the fields of Passendale at the latest (for obvious reasons).

It's not guns that make war, it's mortars, howitzers, cannons, basically anything that isn't personal small arms (basically pistols, rifles, shotguns, the like). Has been since the Thirty Years War at the earliest, the Napoleonics being the more accepted time period. Put it simply, you can't win against tyrants with small arms, you need heavy weaponry. People think guerilla warfare is simply a type of warfare that can win wars (here's a little historical tidbit, it doesn't) not as a phase before waging it with your own armies. Historically resistance/guerilla movements tend to be run over if anything resembling a semi-competent army comes rolling along. Don't quote Vietnam and Afghanistan, as the VC was outright destroyed after Tet (the rest of the war was waged between NVA special forces and US/South Vietnam) and the Taliban (who became a genuine military force after being forced into hiding by the US and receiving training via Pakistan) because they follow the general rule of thumb.

If anything, it's far more likely for tyrants to get into power thanks to the 2nd Amendment. I mean quite a few times nations went to war because someone killed important people, with the spark for two of the World Wars being traced to one man with a pistol in Sarajevo.

I hope he gets voted out of office for gross stupidity.

You have far too much faith in the GOP voter base. The GOP voter base will simply lap this idea up and run with it. Why do you think I left the GOP in the first place? Much of the GOP is basically without empathy. I've heard things like "Sociopathically Individualistic" being termed here.

If it wasn't for the 2nd Amendment I would have been Carjacked twice in the Greater Charleston SC area. I would rather have my guns thank you very much.

See the 'reality being quite different' statement.

 

[King Arts]

Because people like to think one thing despite the reality being quite another thing.

People forget that... the 2nd Amendment became impudent the moment it was signed at the earliest (due to the Thirty Years War being the earliest point where artillery was the primary arm of battle), during the Napoleonics being the more accepted period (for being the definitive point where artillery is the primary arm of battle), and on the fields of Passendale at the latest (for obvious reasons).

It's not guns that make war, it's mortars, howitzers, cannons, basically anything that isn't personal small arms (basically pistols, rifles, shotguns, the like). Has been since the Thirty Years War at the earliest, the Napoleonics being the more accepted time period. Put it simply, you can't win against tyrants with small arms, you need heavy weaponry. People think guerilla warfare is simply a type of warfare that can win wars (here's a little historical tidbit, it doesn't) not as a phase before waging it with your own armies. Historically resistance/guerilla movements tend to be run over if anything resembling a semi-competent army comes rolling along. Don't quote Vietnam and Afghanistan, as the VC was outright destroyed after Tet (the rest of the war was waged between NVA special forces and US/South Vietnam) and the Taliban (who became a genuine military force after being forced into hiding by the US and receiving training via Pakistan) because they follow the general rule of thumb.

If anything, it's far more likely for tyrants to get into power thanks to the 2nd Amendment. I mean quite a few times nations went to war because someone killed important people, with the spark for two of the World Wars being traced to one man with a pistol in Sarajevo.

I would hardly call the Taliban a military force they were insurgents and primarily fought using guerilla warfare. Also as much as you seem to be wanking standing armies. Yes in isolation they will beat irregular forces. BUT here is the thing they don't exist in a vacuum, all of America's past enemies Viet Kong, Taliban, etc. They did not have soft targets if they wanted to hurt America they would fight against tanks, or soldiers patrolling, get hunted by drones, or planes, special forces teams, etc. That is because all of the things that gave America's army power were on the other side of the globe. The Taliban can't blow up a factory in Virginia that makes drones, they can't attack government forces where their guard is down and where damage would severely weaken them. In a hypothetical war in America all of America's high tech goods are close enough to be attacked by the rebels. Eventually there will be equipment shortage and the government's army won't be able to maintain such a high level of technology, there is also the fact that other nations may very well decide to equip and arm the rebels anyway. So yes guns would be very useful, and all of those groups the Taliban, Viet Kong, NVA special forces all used them.

 

[Aaron Fox]

I would hardly call the Taliban a military force they were insurgents and primarily fought using guerilla warfare. Also as much as you seem to be wanking standing armies. Yes in isolation they will beat irregular forces. BUT here is the thing they don't exist in a vacuum, all of America's past enemies Viet Kong, Taliban, etc. They did not have soft targets if they wanted to hurt America they would fight against tanks, or soldiers patrolling, get hunted by drones, or planes, special forces teams, etc. That is because all of the things that gave America's army power were on the other side of the globe. The Taliban can't blow up a factory in Virginia that makes drones, they can't attack government forces where their guard is down and where damage would severely weaken them. In a hypothetical war in America all of America's high tech goods are close enough to be attacked by the rebels. Eventually there will be equipment shortage and the government's army won't be able to maintain such a high level of technology, there is also the fact that other nations may very well decide to equip and arm the rebels anyway. So yes guns would be very useful, and all of those groups the Taliban, Viet Kong, NVA special forces all used them.

... this is a lot of delusions to cover, enough that I'm just getting sick reading it.

 

[King Arts]

... this is a lot of delusions to cover, enough that I'm just getting sick reading it.

There are no delusions, you just seem to have a fetish for boot licking and think that a government can't possibly lose to a bunch of uneducated rebel hicks so you have to make justifications and cope. "I'm getting SICK."
Just engage with the argument dude don't grandstand this isn't spacebattles.

 

[Ixian]

Nothing will happen.

Cops have done this in other cases too. And nothing happened. They aren't liable. They did nothing criminal. There's a very good chance they can't be fired because of a union contract. Even if they are fired, they might get hired a town over, or move and get hired there.

All of this is what happens all the time when an actual bad cop is identified. They are nearly impossible to get rid of. That's independent of the times cops close ranks around a wrong doer. And doesn't include all the fucked up shit that we never learn about.

This is one reason why qualified immunity needs to end. This is why police unions are just as bad as teacher unions.

Normally I'd agree, but this is an election year, that could have some impact and see at least some of these "police officers" punished.

 

[Zachowon]

Because people like to think one thing despite the reality being quite another thing.

People forget that... the 2nd Amendment became impudent the moment it was signed at the earliest (due to the Thirty Years War being the earliest point where artillery was the primary arm of battle), during the Napoleonics being the more accepted period (for being the definitive point where artillery is the primary arm of battle), and on the fields of Passendale at the latest (for obvious reasons).

It's not guns that make war, it's mortars, howitzers, cannons, basically anything that isn't personal small arms (basically pistols, rifles, shotguns, the like). Has been since the Thirty Years War at the earliest, the Napoleonics being the more accepted time period. Put it simply, you can't win against tyrants with small arms, you need heavy weaponry. People think guerilla warfare is simply a type of warfare that can win wars (here's a little historical tidbit, it doesn't) not as a phase before waging it with your own armies. Historically resistance/guerilla movements tend to be run over if anything resembling a semi-competent army comes rolling along. Don't quote Vietnam and Afghanistan, as the VC was outright destroyed after Tet (the rest of the war was waged between NVA special forces and US/South Vietnam) and the Taliban (who became a genuine military force after being forced into hiding by the US and receiving training via Pakistan) because they follow the general rule of thumb.

If anything, it's far more likely for tyrants to get into power thanks to the 2nd Amendment. I mean quite a few times nations went to war because someone killed important people, with the spark for two of the World Wars being traced to one man with a pistol in Sarajevo.

You have far too much faith in the GOP voter base. The GOP voter base will simply lap this idea up and run with it. Why do you think I left the GOP in the first place? Much of the GOP is basically without empathy. I've heard things like "Sociopathically Individualistic" being termed here.

See the 'reality being quite different' statement.

You know the founding fathers allowed people to own cannons and every type if weapon available. They didn't ban shit.

Also, 2nd amendment does a lot more then one thinks.
The US is nit the first out of the Western world when it comes to mass shootings actually and the FBI even showed that at least 1 million defensive gun uses over the 300k criminal use ones.


Fun fact my school had a shooting threat and our sheriff showed up the day it was supposed to happen and said try it and see what happens when you shoot the sheriff but not the deputy

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

... this is a lot of delusions to cover, enough that I'm just getting sick reading it.

Most Americans would rather die. For good reason...

You don't protect children by disarming their parents. That's how you give the State the ability to murder children without restraint. So stop your emotional flailing and think a little.

There are no delusions, you just seem to have a fetish for boot licking and think that a government can't possibly lose to a bunch of uneducated rebel hicks so you have to make justifications and cope. "I'm getting SICK."
Just engage with the argument dude don't grandstand this isn't spacebattles.

People who want to be ruled are another symptom of a diseased society.

Normally I'd agree, but this is an election year, that could have some impact and see at least some of these "police officers" punished.

Well this is Texas...its entirely possible they'll face old fashion frontier justice. I'm not advocating for that, but people over there aren't exactly subdued and understanding when it comes to bullshit like this and never really have been.

You know the founding fathers allowed people to own cannons and every type if weapon available. They didn't ban shit.

To the point where several of the Founding Fathers thought it would be in the best interest of the US if the Federal Government faced an armed rebellion every 75 years to "bleed out the bad blood within the state". Now; obviously that's no healthy way to run a society but it tells you how serious the architects of our entire way of life and Government took the issue of gun ownership and all the rights that are derived from the existence of an armed citizenry.

 

[Sailor.X]

I think one solution could be a more expanded reserve Sheriff's Deputy program nationwide.
In my home county we have such a program.
Field Services | Orangeburg County, SC

We just need to get a few Teachers and School staff to become certified Reserve Deputies. Then have there normal workday be part of their duty day. That way the school will have a number of trained officers already on site.

 

[Cherico]

... this is a lot of delusions to cover, enough that I'm just getting sick reading it.

dude our milatary just lost to a bunch of goat herders.

The us milatary fucking sucks at guerilla warfare which is why every enemy we have that has successfully beaten us uses it. In a naval fight we kick ass, in the air we kick ass but if you can outlast us we will eventally go home and you will win.

 

[Aaron Fox]

I think one solution could be a more expanded reserve Sheriff's Deputy program nationwide.
In my home county we have such a program.
Field Services | Orangeburg County, SC

We just need to get a few Teachers and School staff to become certified Reserve Deputies. Then have there normal workday be part of their duty day. That way the school will have a number of trained officers already on site.

Eh, this problem needs not one but multiple avenues of approach to solve, and all of them would likely take multiple decades to complete, which goes against how democracy rolls. So, be prepared to have this happen constantly until enough people realize that...

 

[Ixian]

While the failures of the Uvalde Police Department are truly staggering, monstrous, and trust-shattering, let us not forget the many failures of the school itself.

1. Its front door was unlocked.... this is such a monumentally basic task, that the fact the school fucked this is nothing less than pure negligence for every supposed "care taker" in the building.

2. They had somewhere between 0 to 4 resource officers, sources are mixed, it would seem most of them weren't even at the school, and of the one that I have read of being there, he apparently sat in his car outside the school.

3. The school had a camera system and motion sensor network, but from what I've been able to gather, no one was actually monitoring these systems, which makes them absolutely useless for stopping a mass shooting.

4. The classroom the shooter eventually held up in? The door was apparently wide open, despite the fact that every school I know of has a basic policy saying classroom doors are to remain shut during the school day. Even worse than that total failure of basic security, when the teacher moved to close the door as they got word of the shooter in the building, he was already at the freaking door, and then, get this, SHOT THE GLASS WINDOW INSTALLED IN THE DOOR and killed the teacher as they attempted to pull it close. What then followed was the horrific hour-long ordeal as the Uvalde PD beat up terrified parents outside instead of saving the children locked in a room with a psychopath.

It is pretty freaking clear, if we want to mitigate school shootings, we need to harden our schools and invest in actual security for them.

 

[Bacle]

dude our milatary just lost to a bunch of goat herders.

The us milatary fucking sucks at guerilla warfare which is why every enemy we have that has successfully beaten us uses it. In a naval fight we kick ass, in the air we kick ass but if you can outlast us we will eventally go home and you will win.

Look, let's not fool ourselves; conservative cope is tiresome just as much as commie cope is.

Armed revolution/rebellion against DC, no matter how illegit or corrupt the people in DC are, means grappling with control over nuclear weapons as the ultimate signal of who is in control/in-power in the US. The powers in DC will nuke portions of their own soil and populace before they ever allow themselves to be removed from power by any sort of popular rebellion/revolution, and never underestimate the lengths any corrupt powers in DC will go to in order to protect themselves at the expense and sacrifice of any number of ordinary American citizens.

Our hope for victory in the fight we face to re-unite, or possibly peacefully divorce, the nation cannot be won with force of arms. I'm not against the 2nd Amendment, I'm just also not foolish enough to think that going 'Wolverines' against DC is a realistic scenario for anything positive for anyone, not with nukes in play.

We have to accept that the best we can do for the foreseeable future is curb the worst of the Left's BS, while trying to slowing recapture social institutions, and also knowing how to define 'victory' in achievable terms.

The way parts of the Right are now wanting to go to the old 'blame video games' bullshit to try to appear to be 'doing something' about this incident and the one in Buffalo, just shows the old authoritarian-Right neo-cons are still very much in power within the GOP.

And the Right mostly values free speech for religious reasons, and won't put up much of a fight for 'artistic expression' unless the subject is 'family friendly'. The video game excuse will fly with the dumber, older Boomers and some of the Silent Gen that are still kicking in the GOP, because to them video games are still 'that weird young person thing'.

All while plenty of the Right will still unabashedly defend cops by default, just to preserve the 'Thin Blue Line', regardless of if the officers acted as they should have.

 

[Zachowon]

dude our milatary just lost to a bunch of goat herders.

The us milatary fucking sucks at guerilla warfare which is why every enemy we have that has successfully beaten us uses it. In a naval fight we kick ass, in the air we kick ass but if you can outlast us we will eventally go home and you will win.

We won ever actual combat against them.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

dude our milatary just lost to a bunch of goat herders.

The us milatary fucking sucks at guerilla warfare which is why every enemy we have that has successfully beaten us uses it. In a naval fight we kick ass, in the air we kick ass but if you can outlast us we will eventally go home and you will win.

Which is ironic as hell considering our experience Indian fighting and adopting their tactics was what made our continental army so effective.

Look, let's not fool ourselves; conservative cope is tiresome just as much as commie cope is.

Armed revolution/rebellion against DC, no matter how illegit or corrupt the people in DC are, means grappling with control over nuclear weapons as the ultimate signal of who is in control/in-power in the US. The powers in DC will nuke portions of their own soil and populace before they ever allow themselves to be removed from power by any sort of popular rebellion/revolution, and never underestimate the lengths any corrupt powers in DC will go to in order to protect themselves at the expense and sacrifice of any number of ordinary American citizens.

It's not about underestimating them..its about understanding how civil wars in the America's are fought usually and recognizing that the ACW was a very clean and a pretty exception to the rule. And yeah, I know that sounds wild given it caused 650,000 deaths..and destroyed several cities but yeah.

Usually in shitstorms like that, the guys who actually command the nuclear arsenal, see opportunity.

That's how you end up with balkinization as every sub Captain and base commander suddenly fancies himself Governor of the state in which he's based/coast in which he sails near..maybe even President of a particular region. While this never would have happened in ages past...recall two things.

1, we've cucked the military leadership and introduced Latin American and African logic into the command structure.

2, Douglas MacArthur very nearly became Emperor of the United States...specifically over not committing a nuclear holocaust in Asia.

So it's not a cope..its that you're assuming the military isn't filled with obese, greedy, corrupt, self interested bureaucrats with delusions of grandeur all their own, who wouldn't screw everyone over for their own slice of the proverbial pie once all the shit hits the fan. They won't serve the left, the right, the globalists or the integralists...they won't serve anyone.

Except themselves.


That's how the Tacuara movement very nearly took over in Argentina...Even though they were like...9 larping drunks and a bunch of Fuentes style aspies. Because they were able to convince enough of the military to simply sit on its ass and do nothing while they went after the elites.

They ultimately failed not because they were incapable of fighting Buenos Aires but because they were a bunch of retards who couldn't control their own impulses and they ultimately got phased out by a demon worshipping furry named Rega

"Oh there IWD goes again with the schizo South America history..what's it got to do with us?"

Well, the US is more like Brazil in the 1950's and Argentina in the 1970's today, than it is the US of the 1860's.

This is also why I think a second ACW is the worst possible solution to this problem and the least necessary one.

We won ever actual combat against them.

Yeah, that shouldn't be in dispute, the US army also killed two million Vietnamese communists.

In both cases we still lost the war because those victories meant fuck all because the populace we were trying to uplift and pacify absolutely reviled our culture and viewed our way of life as an affront to nature and their God in the case of Iraq.

 

[Bacle]

It's not about underestimating them..its about understanding how civil wars in the America's are fought usually and recognizing that the ACW was a very clean and a pretty exception to the rule. And yeah, I know that sounds wild given it caused 650,000 deaths..and destroyed several cities but yeah.

Usually in shitstorms like that, the guys who actually command the nuclear arsenal, see opportunity.

That's how you end up with balkinization as every sub Captain and base commander suddenly fancies himself Governor of the state in which he's based/coast in which he sails near..maybe even President of a particular region. While this never would have happened in ages past...recall two things.

1, we've cucked the military leadership and introduced Latin American and African logic into the command structure.

2, Douglas MacArthur very nearly became Emperor of the United States...specifically over not committing a nuclear holocaust in Asia.

So it's not a cope..its that you're assuming the military isn't filled with obese, greedy, corrupt, self interested bureaucrats with delusions of grandeur all their own, who wouldn't screw everyone over for their own slice of the proverbial pie once all the shit hits the fan.


That's how the Tacuara movement very nearly took over in Argentina...Even though they were like...9 larping drunks and a bunch of Fuentes style aspies. Because they were able to convince enough of the military to simply sit on its ass and do nothing while they went after the elites.

They ultimately failed not because they were incapable of fighting Buenos Aires but because they were a bunch of retards who couldn't control their own impulses and they ultimately got phased out by a demon worshipping furry named Rega

"Oh there IWD goes again with the schizo South America history..what's it got to do with us?"

Well, the US is more like Brazil in the 1950's and Argentina in the 1970's today, than it is the US of the 1860's.

This is also why I think a second ACW is the worst possible solution to this problem and the least necessary one.

Ok, I can see the point you are getting at, and unlike some, I'm not harboring any delusions US politics is any less fucked than your average banana republic anymore; we just happen to be a nuclear armed banana republic.

So your point about nuclear fiefdoms/provinces is not unrealistic. A peaceful divorce that actually includes diviying up the nuke stockpile is a better end than many we could hope for, and nuclear governorships are hardly an outlandish outcome.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Ok, I can see the point you are getting at, and unlike some, I'm not harboring any delusions US politics is any less fucked than your average banana republic anymore; we just happen to be a nuclear armed banana republic.

So your point about nuclear fiefdoms/provinces is not unrealistic. A peaceful divorce that actually includes diviying up the nuke stockpile is a better end than many we could hope for, and nuclear governorships are hardly an outlandish outcome.

That was like..the biggest reason why everyone lost their God damn minds when LBJ wanted to give Argentina and Chile nuclear weapons and when Nixon wanted to fund their nuclear and space programs (lmao). And it was always the biggest concern when the USSR started to collapse...and when Pakistan nearly lost two nuclear bases to Al queda.

Also little known fact but it caused a hell of a panic but Pablo Escobar wanted to buy a Typhoon from the USSR to mule cocaine like a nuclear powered cigarette boat and the corrupt Soviet Admiral he talked too was like "Da, sure for extra twenty million I give you nuclear weapons with sub..so you can terrorize coast guard..is good yes?"

Like that damn near happened..that's straight out of a comic book and it happened in real life.

The US military is dangerously corrupt, counting on it to do anything other than devolving into a bunch of rabid jackals brawling over a carcass the moment things get nearly that bad seems to me to be a...dangerous assumption both sides make.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

 

[Captain X]

@Aaron Fox
People used to bring guns to school all the time - there used to be shooting sports for crying out loud. This during a time when it was far easier to purchase a firearm. There were not these mass shootings back then, yet after decades of gun control measures and restrictions, we have them now. What's different between back then and now? Hint - it's not access to guns, because it was way easier to get a hold of one back then.

 

[Cherico]

@Aaron Fox
People used to bring guns to school all the time - there used to be shooting sports for crying out loud. This during a time when it was far easier to purchase a firearm. There were not these mass shootings back then, yet after decades of gun control measures and restrictions, we have them now. What's different between back then and now? Hint - it's not access to guns, because it was way easier to get a hold of one back then.

look at how many school shooters come from single parent homes.

Now look at how the children of single parents do worse in every single metric.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

look at how many school shooters come from single parent homes.

Now look at how the children of single parents do worse in every single metric.

90%

Also the same number of serial killers who were raised by single moms IIRC.