The lore behind Order 66 was so zany anyhow. They even named a novel after it and still things seemed as confusing asf regarding how it worked so they finally just went with, oh it was a chip!
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The lore behind Order 66 was so zany anyhow. They even named a novel after it and still things seemed as confusing asf regarding how it worked so they finally just went with, oh it was a chip!
DarthOne
☦️
No it wasn’t. What part of ‘a series of contingency orders’ is zany?
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Blind obedience is pretty weird, especially since Palpy has just turned into scrotumface and looks nothing like himself. And the Jedi have been fighting alongside them the entire time. As their officers!
I mean... practically all governments have legal structures for emergency decrees et cetera, but suppose: it's near the end of the American Civil War. The Confederates are on the ropes. Suddenly, Lincoln sends out a message to the rank-and-file soldiers, saying: "I've just signed an executive order. You are to summarily execute all your commanding officers immediately. Yeah, I mean Grant and all the others. Kill them all. Do it now."
Also, he's suddenly got grey skin, is weirdly wrinkly, and his eyes are kind of glowing yellow.
Do you think... that they'd go and do it? Like, right away, no questions asked?
Or that maybe, just maybe, they might ask some questions and figure out what's happening here?
Which is why "mind control chip" makes more sense.
Because based on the Clone Wars both the movies and TV show, while some Jedi had strained relations with the Clones, others loved their Jedi officers... which makes sense since Jedi were people are all dealt with the Clones differently. But for those units with beloved Jedi commanders... it would make no sense for them to turn on them without something short of mind control.
The chips are interesting in that they actually enhance older canon, particularly after the Fives Arc.
The 'nightmares'/'mission in our dreams' Tup spoke of, which it seem Fives understood what he meant, and Rex later understood and gave a small version of to Ahsoka...also mean most clones probably had some awareness of the Contingency Orders in their mind, even if just subconsciously.
It would also jive with the old 501st Journal from the OG Battlefront 2, as that could be a trooper who had the same dreams, the same subconscious thoughts, and would explain why it seemed like the general clones were aware something like Order 66 was expected to happen, 'eventually', but not on the surface of their mind, where a Jedi might pick it up.
Bigking321
Well-known member
I always assumed it was just some preprogrammed biological stuff. They must obey the Supreme Chancellor. Literally have to.
So if he sends out a order to kill all jedi, they just do it. History and friendship doesn't matter. They have to do it.
Which is why it was so effective. The jedi had years of trust and friendship built up with the clones, and the clones had no intention of ever attacking them for the jedi to pick up on.
Right until the very instant they got the orders they had to obey.
So if he sends out a order to kill all jedi, they just do it. History and friendship doesn't matter. They have to do it.
Which is why it was so effective. The jedi had years of trust and friendship built up with the clones, and the clones had no intention of ever attacking them for the jedi to pick up on.
Right until the very instant they got the orders they had to obey.
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
I agree. The reason the Jedi couldn't see their end coming was three-fold. First, there was the Shroud of the Dark Side, then there was the years-long Clone Wars, both of which blotted out their long-term precognitive ability. Even then, they still might have sensed some warning via telepathy, i.e. a sudden spike in killing intent from the Clones all around them. Only...there was none. The Clones never hated the Jedi, or even wanted to kill them. It was all just them following a given order, with no more emotion a man might have flipping a light switch.
Oh Hell No! 
Blasterbot
Well-known member
Have you heard the tale of the wizard known as Darth Plagueis the wise?
I definitely think that Order 66 made sense without a magic chip, though the chip could have been an additional explanation. I preferred what seemed to be hinted in the Old EU, with it being deep level programming. The Clones were brainwashed sleeper agents, just waiting for the trigger words. Trigger words for one special order, among many. Something hidden in plain sight, and entirely justifiable. Something that Palpatine could plausibly deny any sort of malicious intent for.
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
The worst part for Order 66, though, was that it wasn't simultaneous. Sidious took sadistic glee in not issuing the order all at the same time to the clone commanders, but contacted them all one by one to personally order the Jedi's executions. This meant that quite a few Jedi could sense their brethren all across the galaxy dying one after another...except they couldn't see how it was happening or who was behind them. The Shroud of the Dark Side and all the death and suffering caused by the Clone Wars had completely blinded* their precognitive abilities by then, and not sensing any ill intent from the clones around them, they were literally running around in circles blind to the danger.
*Yoda only managed to pierce the Shroud of the Dark Side while fighting Darth Sidious at the Senate, and even then it's possible he only managed to pierce it because he was starting to slip into the Dark Side. Watch the scene again in the movie, as Sidious pours Force Lightning at Yoda, who's beginning to get forced back, before suddenly looking angrily at Sidious at which point he starts forcing him back.
Just like Kreia pierced the First Child's sorcery thanks to being Sith herself, allowing her to perceive the True Sith's existence, Yoda's brief touch of the Dark Side allowed him to pierce the Order of Bane's sorcery. It even adds more meaning to his statement to Bail, "Failed, I have..."
He didn't just mean he failed to defeat Darth Sidious, he also failed as a Jedi, as he couldn't match the Dark Lord's power without tapping ever so little into the Dark's power.
*Yoda only managed to pierce the Shroud of the Dark Side while fighting Darth Sidious at the Senate, and even then it's possible he only managed to pierce it because he was starting to slip into the Dark Side. Watch the scene again in the movie, as Sidious pours Force Lightning at Yoda, who's beginning to get forced back, before suddenly looking angrily at Sidious at which point he starts forcing him back.
Just like Kreia pierced the First Child's sorcery thanks to being Sith herself, allowing her to perceive the True Sith's existence, Yoda's brief touch of the Dark Side allowed him to pierce the Order of Bane's sorcery. It even adds more meaning to his statement to Bail, "Failed, I have..."
He didn't just mean he failed to defeat Darth Sidious, he also failed as a Jedi, as he couldn't match the Dark Lord's power without tapping ever so little into the Dark's power.
I don't buy this interpretation.
I don't think Yoda fell to the dark side at all. That image of Yoda felt more like his stubbornness taking over. If there had been a fall to the Dark, Yoda would have attacked Sidious directly with the Force. He did not.
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
I never said he fell, just that he might have slipped over the edge just a bit before sliding back. Jedi can bounce back without any permanent spiritual damage from minor slips into the Dark Side, hell, that's the whole point of the Trial of the Spirit.
And he did attack Sidious directly, not simply absorbing the Dark Lord's Force Lightning, but pushing it back.
That's a fair interpretation.
Really, just a matter of how each person views that event. So...yeah...we're both right!!
Best scene in The Force Awakens?
Perhaps the Sequel Trilogy as a whole?
Perhaps the Sequel Trilogy as a whole?
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
The sequel trilogy...overall, I'll just quote Magnus the Red from TTS.
"Ow! Ow! Stop that...stop dazzling me with your ignorance! Your shiny, half-baked head is drilling into my head like an acid made of stupid!"
"Ow! Ow! Stop that...stop dazzling me with your ignorance! Your shiny, half-baked head is drilling into my head like an acid made of stupid!"
DarthOne
☦️
It’s canon.
Remember this?
“They are totally obedient, taking any order without question. We modified their genetic structure to make them less independent then then the original host.”
No magic chip needed. In fact, prior to TCW, outside of the ARC Troopers and Commandos, the Clones were constantly depicted with this in mind.
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
I remember that moment when I realized the GAR and the Droid Army had the exact same leitmotif, embodying how the Clone Wars was essentially just Darth Sidious playing chess against himself, and that regardless of which side wins or loses, he will always come out on top.
Typhonis
Well-known member
You know they could have replaced the First Order with the Helghast from Killzone and it would be a better movie?
After the fall of the Empire a charismatic leader gathers the remnants together with a promise to return them to the glory days of the Empire. To destroy the corruption and ineptitude that now dominates the Galaxy. To free the Galaxy from the machinations of the Jedi and the Sith. Because they are one and the same.
After the fall of the Empire a charismatic leader gathers the remnants together with a promise to return them to the glory days of the Empire. To destroy the corruption and ineptitude that now dominates the Galaxy. To free the Galaxy from the machinations of the Jedi and the Sith. Because they are one and the same.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
You mean like what happened in an obscure trilogy of novels called Heir to the Empire?
By a largely unknown author names Timothy Zahn.