Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

[Marduk]

Ok let’s use Iran as an example let’s say we get into a war with Iran and beat it and we decide to weaken Iran so it can never be strong again. So we go to prisons and take the communists that Irans theocracy locked up and we put them into power with a treaty that limits their military. Would you still simp for that?

No, that would be stupid, they would turn to simp for China or Russia as soon as you let them, like Iraqi Shia and Sunni started simping for their respective Islamists, which would be an equal, or perhaps worse variation on the same problem Iran is now.

Are you illiterate? I never said that changing Japan’s culture was all bad. I’m not a pure isolationist making the emperor not a god was a good thing. BUT it was a change of their culture. That’s a fact you are the one who is distracting or deflecting it instead of saying yes.

That's more of a change of system of governance tbh.
The West changed all the world's cultures more or less, besides some isolated stone age tribes.

I mean while the Japs did fire the first shot it’s not like America wasn’t provoking them with a trade embargo.

They provoked US trade embargo with their moves in SEA and China, two can play the muh provocation game. In the end, they called themselves an empire and for a reason.

Pretty much any nation would have attacked if it was embargoed like that.

Nope, you are plain wrong. Plenty of embargoes in history never resulted in a war.

Of course then you can argue that Japan deserved the embargo because of their evil actions in China. But still better to be intellectual and informed then just spout buzzwords and “they attack us!”

Their actions in China and SEA, even if they were never evil, would still be a provocation against the US. If you think Japan has the right to do such things, then why doesn't USA have the right to embargo Japan?

What is the relevance here? I’m not wilfully isolationist if there is an actual threat.

Your threat recognition is bad then.

Yet you do realize that those nations are having their arms twisted to accept the newcomers in. It’s not “Oh yeah decide if you are cool with these guys joining the club no pressure whichever way you vote is ok.”

Any politics at all in any area involve some kind and degree of arm twisting by that definition, but you still can't bullshit that they weren't asked.

But you did change the culture from the emperor to the aristocracy to giving women the vote.

And again they attacked because of embargo’s because FDR wanted to get into the world war.

Japan was building an empire and provoking USA because their military leadership wanted to get get into the world war, i too can use this silly logic, see?

You are the one who does not seem to understand military strategy. If there is a war between NATO and Russia conventional forces won’t matter for long so where those troops clash isn’t important. Because if two nuclear powers clash then nukes will fly, unless one backs down. If France has nukes and Russia invaded it the. France will nuke Moscow. If France has nukes and Russia invades Germany but there is no NATO then why would France want to nuke Moscow when Paris will be nuked. A Frenchman should care about Paris more than Berlin.

Counterpoint: tactical nukes. Nukes aren't the pop cultural "end of the world" weapon. Confusion, counter force strikes, rebellions, wrong priorities, incompetence etc can make it into a very unpredictable and chaotic scenario where surviving conventional armies will still very much matter.

Being a nuclear power guarantees your sovereignty, no nation will be able to invade and occupy you. So why risk your own destruction for others it sucks for them sure but nuclear borders are inviolate.

You have only half of the truism. Nuclear powers cannot be defeated, but they can be destroyed. Make sure to fully consider the second part that you have missed.

 

[Bacle]

That's all true.

I see Russia, under Putin, isn't on the US's side. So, they do things that they see as advantages their side, even if the US doesn't like it. Not good guys at all. (Not that I'm fond of a lot of US "elite")

I just think if you're going to get involved, you have to do it smart. And, what's being done now?


Either it's basicaly money laundering, or it's just insanely stupidly done.




Basicaly? Russia bad, yes. Fixing that? The way the US is going, I think you're just making it worse.

Maybe the first thing to do is stop pretending Russia isn't a threat, and stop talking about trying to mend relations with Russia.

And this isn't about 'fixing' Russia, it's about containing the orcs to Mordor and killing the ones who attempt to invade neighboring nations.

A bounty should be put on the heads of any Russian who has willfully participated in the invasion of Ukraine and those who openly support Putin.

No Russian should be able to enjoy any of the comforts/luxuries of the west until every cent of war reparations is paid to Ukraine, and no Russian who supports the invasion should be able to leave Russia without being publicly shamed and jeered at, at minimum.

No peace with Russia, no forgiveness for the invasion of Ukraine, and no compassion towards the Russian nation when it begins to fall apart.

 

[Simonbob]

No peace with Russia, no forgiveness for the invasion of Ukraine, and no compassion towards the Russian nation when it begins to fall apart.

For Fucks sake, Bacle! They're humans, you moron!

Stop your genocide boner, would you?!?

 

[Bacle]

For Fucks sake, Bacle! They're humans, you moron!

Stop your genocide boner, would you?!?

It's the Russian genocide boner I am talking about stopping, or do you just want to memory hole all the times Russia has invaded their neighbors and genocided them?

Also, Russian's may be human, by psychologically they went from being serfs to being commies, they do not understand and have never known freedom or liberty.

The Russian mindset is closer to an orc than to what the west thinks of as a 'normal human psyche', do not make the mistake of thinking that Russians think like we do, and do not make the mistake of thinking anything but lethal force will ever get Russians to stop invading their neighbors.

We cannot fix Russia, we cannot allow Russia to keep invading it's neighbors, and that leaves only the option of containment.

 

[King Arts]

No, that would be stupid, they would turn to simp for China or Russia as soon as you let them, like Iraqi Shia and Sunni started simping for their respective Islamists, which would be an equal, or perhaps worse variation on the same problem Iran is now.

What if that was not a problem ok let’s get rid of communism. We want to make the people of a nation we conquered suffer as much as possible so we put worsts including tranny sex offenders in charge would you simp for that since they would be pro west?

That's more of a change of system of governance tbh.
The West changed all the world's cultures more or less, besides some isolated stone age tribes.

Governments are part of culture. If America or Russia invaded the Vatican and deposed the Pope and Vatican state that would be a change in culture even though we are just removing a nation and government.

They provoked US trade embargo with their moves in SEA and China, two can play the muh provocation game. In the end, they called themselves an empire and for a reason.

Yes they did evil actions there but it’s not really a threat to America it’s a threat to European colonial powers and indigenous people. Ironically the China lobby back then helped us get into conflict.

Nope, you are plain wrong. Plenty of embargoes in history never resulted in a war.

Many have though especially if they are serious enough to cause economic collapse.

Their actions in China and SEA, even if they were never evil, would still be a provocation against the US. If you think Japan has the right to do such things, then why doesn't USA have the right to embargo Japan?

I do think nations have the right to refuse trade with others and it’s wrong to use force to open them up but are you consistent? Would you condemn the British opium war or America opening up Japan by force?

Ironically if Matthew Perry left the Japs alone world war 2 and Pearl Harbor will never happen.

Your threat recognition is bad then.

No I think yours is.

Any politics at all in any area involve some kind and degree of arm twisting by that definition, but you still can't bullshit that they weren't asked.

Again sanctions and all sorts of shit was threatened because your globohomo masters want to build an empire.

Japan was building an empire and provoking USA because their military leadership wanted to get get into the world war, i too can use this silly logic, see?

It’s not silly logic. Its true. Nations build empires if the US wants to build an empire another rising empire is a threat. It’s not a moral thing.

Counterpoint: tactical nukes. Nukes aren't the pop cultural "end of the world" weapon. Confusion, counter force strikes, rebellions, wrong priorities, incompetence etc can make it into a very unpredictable and chaotic scenario where surviving conventional armies will still very much matter.

After every city of over 100,000 people was nuked multiple times conventional armies are useless. Lets play that out Russia and the west get into a nuclear war Russia wiped out every western city of over 100,000 people but you managed to wipe out the Russian military. Do you think you’ve won?

You have only half of the truism. Nuclear powers cannot be defeated, but they can be destroyed. Make sure to fully consider the second part that you have missed.

Yes that’s what MAD is. Nuclear powers can destroy each other so they must not fight each other.

Maybe the first thing to do is stop pretending Russia isn't a threat, and stop talking about trying to mend relations with Russia.

And this isn't about 'fixing' Russia, it's about containing the orcs to Mordor and killing the ones who attempt to invade neighboring nations.

A bounty should be put on the heads of any Russian who has willfully participated in the invasion of Ukraine and those who openly support Putin.

No Russian should be able to enjoy any of the comforts/luxuries of the west until every cent of war reparations is paid to Ukraine, and no Russian who supports the invasion should be able to leave Russia without being publicly shamed and jeered at, at minimum.

No peace with Russia, no forgiveness for the invasion of Ukraine, and no compassion towards the Russian nation when it begins to fall apart.

Careful with that edge and don’t be surprised if other nations do the same thing to America. Soldiers and people who supported the Iraq war publicly shame them and spit on them call them baby killers and all that.

 

[Bacle]

New Finnish president is talking about EU and eventual NATO membership for Ukraine, as well as how Finland will be increasing their aid to Ukraine.

 

[Marduk]

What if that was not a problem ok let’s get rid of communism. We want to make the people of a nation we conquered suffer as much as possible so we put worsts including tranny sex offenders in charge would you simp for that since they would be pro west?

It would still be stupid, because that would be even more resource intensive to keep them in power than with liberals.
However, if tranny sex offenders and jihadis end up having to wage brutal campaigns against each other, i will support the Grim Reaper in this confluict.

Governments are part of culture. If America or Russia invaded the Vatican and deposed the Pope and Vatican state that would be a change in culture even though we are just removing a nation and government.

Vatican is an unusual type of state, a microstate with no culture of its own (ever heard of the Vaticanese nation and culture?) and so your use of it as an example is inherently a terrible and you should know better.
By that logic helping anyone overthrow commies is also a change of culture because commie culture is quite different from normal cultures, so any value judgement of that becomes conditional.

Yes they did evil actions there but it’s not really a threat to America it’s a threat to European colonial powers and indigenous people. Ironically the China lobby back then helped us get into conflict.

If they succeeded, they would become a threat to America and its interests in the Pacific. Hence letting them do that unopposed was a risk to America.

Many have though especially if they are serious enough to cause economic collapse.

Japan had the choice of just not playing colonial empire.

I do think nations have the right to refuse trade with others and it’s wrong to use force to open them up but are you consistent? Would you condemn the British opium war or America opening up Japan by force?

I'm not into virtue signalling unlike you apparently. Chinese made the mistake of giving British an excuse by seizing their property, and Japan... Well, they had no issue making an exception for the Dutch, and it was not a war, but an intimidation play and show of force, completely different league.
If Perry's voyage was an actual Pearl Harbor style surprise attack, he bombarded Japan's strategic ports, causing a full scale war, then Japan defeated USA, invaded it, and then Japan fought the war all the way to Washington D.C and demanded some changes in the way US does its politics, then USA would be famous for starting the dumbest and most miscalculated war in history of modernity with only itself to blame.

Ironically if Matthew Perry left the Japs alone world war 2 and Pearl Harbor will never happen.

Sadly time machines don't exist. We also don't know if and in what circumstances Japan would have industrialized then. It could always be worse...

No I think yours is.

I for one don't do my best to try not recognize threats and blame own countries for them being threats, it's ridiculous, it's something for teenage hippies to do.

Again sanctions and all sorts of shit was threatened because your globohomo masters want to build an empire.

Out of three shit options, better them than Russians or Chinese, as the neoliberal and color haired clowns are more cowardly and less competent about enforcing their mandates with an iron fist than the students of the KGB schools.

It’s not silly logic. Its true. Nations build empires if the US wants to build an empire another rising empire is a threat. It’s not a moral thing.

US does a sort of intermediate option, and it worked better than the alternatives so far, who needs your artificial limitations on what they should do and how. Sure, it would make world affairs simpler for some people to handle, but who cares, git gud.

After every city of over 100,000 people was nuked multiple times conventional armies are useless. Lets play that out Russia and the west get into a nuclear war Russia wiped out every western city of over 100,000 people but you managed to wipe out the Russian military. Do you think you’ve won?

Not enough ready nukes for that even in Russia to do that in USA, Europe and company. Nevermind working ones and after you count out some hit by counter-force and reserved for strategic military targets rather than cities.
Secondly, even strikes aimed at military targets are, in practice, going to fuck up most major cities as collateral.

Yes that’s what MAD is. Nuclear powers can destroy each other so they must not fight each other.

In theory. In practice, MAD can be something to be set up, but it's not granted merely by being a nuclear power, some lack warheads/delivery means to have MAD against others. Sometimes we can't know either way without classified data.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

It's the Russian genocide boner I am talking about stopping, or do you just want to memory hole all the times Russia has invaded their neighbors and genocided them?

Also, Russian's may be human, by psychologically they went from being serfs to being commies, they do not understand and have never known freedom or liberty.

The Russian mindset is closer to an orc than to what the west thinks of as a 'normal human psyche', do not make the mistake of thinking that Russians think like we do, and do not make the mistake of thinking anything but lethal force will ever get Russians to stop invading their neighbors.

We cannot fix Russia, we cannot allow Russia to keep invading it's neighbors, and that leaves only the option of containment.

that reasoning was also used by the nazis for their treatment of the Jews. It is also the reasoning that can be used by any major superpower to justify eliminating the rest of the human race and creating a new human race using their own stock. (Which was Hitler's REAL endgame by the way. the homo sapiens going the way of the neanderthal and be replaced by a "Better" Aryan Sapien species) All it takes is 10,000 people to repopulate the world in a few centuries. How much easier would it be to do with a nation of tens if not a few hundred million people? Be very careful with that logic path Bacle.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

We have video and photographic evidence of large swathes of Russians dying in advances as far back as vuhladae

You have typical military losses. Not vast carpets of thousands of bodies an actual human wave attack would produce

 

[Simonbob]

It's the Russian genocide boner I am talking about stopping, or do you just want to memory hole all the times Russia has invaded their neighbors and genocided them?

Also, Russian's may be human, by psychologically they went from being serfs to being commies, they do not understand and have never known freedom or liberty.

The Russian mindset is closer to an orc than to what the west thinks of as a 'normal human psyche', do not make the mistake of thinking that Russians think like we do, and do not make the mistake of thinking anything but lethal force will ever get Russians to stop invading their neighbors.

We cannot fix Russia, we cannot allow Russia to keep invading it's neighbors, and that leaves only the option of containment.

And how do you fix that?



I'll tell you what doesn't work. Threating to murder them for the crime of being born in a place.



I think I'll try to put this another way. The reason why I listen to the Russian POV is because you cannot fix something, unless you understand where it's broken. The reason why I don't like this proxy war, is because I can only see bad ends from it.


I'll say it again. Russia is a shithole. But, you don't fix such by making them suck China's cock, you make them better through a combo of carrot and stick.




I don't know if you're just not thinking, or you want China to be stronger, but that's what you're advocating.

 

[King Arts]

It would still be stupid, because that would be even more resource intensive to keep them in power than with liberals.
However, if tranny sex offenders and jihadis end up having to wage brutal campaigns against each other, i will support the Grim Reaper in this confluict.

Tranny sex offenders are liberals I don’t know if you’ve been under a rock the past 4 years. But you’ve just said you’d be ok with installing tranny sex offenders into a nation we conquer after they surrender. Great I guess.

Vatican is an unusual type of state, a microstate with no culture of its own (ever heard of the Vaticanese nation and culture?) and so your use of it as an example is inherently a terrible and you should know better.
By that logic helping anyone overthrow commies is also a change of culture because commie culture is quite different from normal cultures, so any value judgement of that becomes conditional.

Commies don’t have a culture they are anti culture. Culture implies tradition it’s a repository that is passed down the generations. Commies want to destroy that again and again.

If they succeeded, they would become a threat to America and its interests in the Pacific. Hence letting them do that unopposed was a risk to America.

Why? I mean you and other western shills don’t say the British empire was a threat.

Japan had the choice of just not playing colonial empire.

In those times if you weren’t able to be isolationist your choices were to be a colonizer or be a colony. Sure I guess you want the non whites to submit to white westerners.

I'm not into virtue signalling unlike you apparently. Chinese made the mistake of giving British an excuse by seizing their property, and Japan... Well, they had no issue making an exception for the Dutch, and it was not a war, but an intimidation play and show of force, completely different league.
If Perry's voyage was an actual Pearl Harbor style surprise attack, he bombarded Japan's strategic ports, causing a full scale war, then Japan defeated USA, invaded it, and then Japan fought the war all the way to Washington D.C and demanded some changes in the way US does its politics, then USA would be famous for starting the dumbest and most miscalculated war in history of modernity with only itself to blame.

So if the US destroys drugs coming from Mexico it’s ok for the Mexicans to invade if they can and force us to legalize it?
And for Japan if they did not accept trade they would have been bombed. By warships.
Also would Russia be justified to start a war over sanctions.

I for one don't do my best to try not recognize threats and blame own countries for them being threats, it's ridiculous, it's something for teenage hippies to do.

We’ll the hippies won so maybe their tactics are to be emulated instead of your space like cuckoldry to the west.

Out of three shit options, better them than Russians or Chinese, as the neoliberal and color haired clowns are more cowardly and less competent about enforcing their mandates with an iron fist than the students of the KGB schools.

Nope globohomo is the worst their the ones who will rape your children and army point and have everyone applaud it for being stunning and brave.

Not enough ready nukes for that even in Russia to do that in USA, Europe and company. Nevermind working ones and after you count out some hit by counter-force and reserved for strategic military targets rather than cities.
Secondly, even strikes aimed at military targets are, in practice, going to fuck up most major cities as collateral.

You are assuming that. You don’t know. I said what if every western city was destroyed all the farmland has bioweapons on it the entire Russian army is gone but the west still has whatever military forces aren’t near populated areas. You are the highest military officer.
Is this outcome worth it?
What do you think happens next?

In theory. In practice, MAD can be something to be set up, but it's not granted merely by being a nuclear power, some lack warheads/delivery means to have MAD against others. Sometimes we can't know either way without classified data.

When I say someone has nukes it’s generally assumed they have delivery systems. It’s like saying someone has a gun but then you ask if they have bullets.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

And how do you fix that?



I'll tell you what doesn't work. Threating to murder them for the crime of being born in a place.



I think I'll try to put this another way. The reason why I listen to the Russian POV is because you cannot fix something, unless you understand where it's broken. The reason why I don't like this proxy war, is because I can only see bad ends from it.


I'll say it again. Russia is a shithole. But, you don't fix such by making them suck China's cock, you make them better through a combo of carrot and stick.




I don't know if you're just not thinking, or you want China to be stronger, but that's what you're advocating.

I do think things will not get better for Russia until Putin and his guys are gone (Same with ukraine oddly enough) I don't know how that can be done though. I don't trust the US to do it. We helped put in Ukraine's leader for crying out loud. Honestly they may be a good case study to see if classical Monarchy really does work as well as monarchists claim it does. I'm not sure if there is remaining decadents though.

 

[Bacle]

that reasoning was also used by the nazis for their treatment of the Jews. It is also the reasoning that can be used by any major superpower to justify eliminating the rest of the human race and creating a new human race using their own stock. (Which was Hitler's REAL endgame by the way. the homo sapiens going the way of the neanderthal and be replaced by a "Better" Aryan Sapien species) All it takes is 10,000 people to repopulate the world in a few centuries. How much easier would it be to do with a nation of tens if not a few hundred million people? Be very careful with that logic path Bacle.

Wiping out Russian's isn't the goal.

Keeping Russia's madness inside it's own borders, and removing it from the economic systems/ties to the west that has kept Russia's infrastructure and nation afloat, while giving up on the pretense Russia can be dealt with using anything but brute force and violence as direct deterrents to Russian's trying shit outside their internationally recognized borders.

And if/when Moscow begins to lose control over the lands they conquered in Asia and Europe, the US shouldn't lift a finger to help Moscow and instead recognize the newly independent nations in the post-Russian space.

And how do you fix that?



I'll tell you what doesn't work. Threating to murder them for the crime of being born in a place.



I think I'll try to put this another way. The reason why I listen to the Russian POV is because you cannot fix something, unless you understand where it's broken. The reason why I don't like this proxy war, is because I can only see bad ends from it.


I'll say it again. Russia is a shithole. But, you don't fix such by making them suck China's cock, you make them better through a combo of carrot and stick.




I don't know if you're just not thinking, or you want China to be stronger, but that's what you're advocating.

I expect both the CCP and Russian Federation to collapse into nuclear warlord/kingship states and newly independent republics with legacy Russia nuclear weapons/infrastructure. Russia will collapse first, and when it does, the domino effect of independent republics on the CCP's northern border will make places like Tibet and other places the Han have conquered/tried to conquer more able to break free. Blow the 3 Gorges Dam and you can take out much of the CCP industrial heartland with one blow.

So I am not worried about driving Moscow into Beijing's arms, because I don't think Beijing/ the CCP will be in control of the Chinese 'nation' as we know it today for long enough for their desires to matter.

You are a fool to think the west can 'fix' Russia; it's the same mistake we made a generation ago when the Wall fell. You do not fix Russia, Russia cannot be fixed, and history shows time and time again that Moscow's never going to stop invading neighbors unless forced to by violence or the direct threat of it.

The only way to 'fix' Russia, into something less retarded, violent, and drunk is to let the Mongol's take control of it again, and let the lessons and wisdom of Chingus guide governing the hordes of Moscovy.

 

[Simonbob]

I expect both the CCP and Russian Federation to collapse into nuclear warlord/kingship states and newly independent republics with legacy Russia nuclear weapons/infrastructure. Russia will collapse first, and when it does, the domino effect of independent republics on the CCP's northern border will make places like Tibet and other places the Han have conquered/tried to conquer more able to break free. Blow the 3 Gorges Dam and you can take out much of the CCP industrial heartland with one blow.

So I am not worried about driving Moscow into Beijing's arms, because I don't think Beijing/ the CCP will be in control of the Chinese 'nation' as we know it today for long enough for their desires to matter.

You are a fool to think the west can 'fix' Russia; it's the same mistake we made a generation ago when the Wall fell. You do not fix Russia, Russia cannot be fixed, and history shows time and time again that Moscow's never going to stop invading neighbors unless forced to by violence or the direct threat of it.

The only way to 'fix' Russia, into something less retarded, violent, and drunk is to let the Mongol's take control of it again, and let the lessons and wisdom of Chingus guide governing the hordes of Moscovy.

Ok! I don't agree, but that makes some sense!

So, a disagreement on things, but we can at least talk, without more ranting.


And, now, I don't want to talk about it anyway. Fuck, this shit's been annoying me, but now I hate it all.



Fucking hell.


Let's just see what Tucker does in terms of interviews next. Seems willing to talk to some interesting guys, even if they're US enemies.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Keeping Russia's madness inside it's own borders, and removing it from the economic systems/ties to the west that has kept Russia's infrastructure and nation afloat, while giving up on the pretense Russia can be dealt with using anything but brute force and violence as direct deterrents to Russian's trying shit outside their internationally recognized borders.

here is the thing. People cannot be contained they will move and invade especially if they think survival is on the line.

 

[Bacle]

here is the thing. People cannot be contained they will move and invade especially if they think survival is on the line.

Russia can survive just fine inside it's own borders, and none of Russia's neighbors should have to be subject to invasion just because of Moscow's imperial delusions.

Because that's what this is about, the delusions of still being an 'empire' that Putin is trying to stoke in the Russian people, and everything else a fig leaf to this end.

The other option is just to break up the Russian Federation and make it so large parts of central and eastern Asia don't have to bow to Moscow any further, and have their own nuclear deterrents from the legacy arsenal.

Either contain the Russian Federation or break it up; the brief window of sanity we saw in Russia after the Wall fell is a fluke and abnormality that will not repeat.

 

[Marduk]

Tranny sex offenders are liberals I don’t know if you’ve been under a rock the past 4 years. But you’ve just said you’d be ok with installing tranny sex offenders into a nation we conquer after they surrender. Great I guess.

Sometimes all the options are bastards, and the only choice is whose bastards should those be.

Commies don’t have a culture they are anti culture. Culture implies tradition it’s a repository that is passed down the generations. Commies want to destroy that again and again.

Destroying everything is a part of commie culture.

Why? I mean you and other western shills don’t say the British empire was a threat.

Well at that point in history it was done with picking fights with USA, so it wasn't?

In those times if you weren’t able to be isolationist your choices were to be a colonizer or be a colony. Sure I guess you want the non whites to submit to white westerners.

Was it really the case? Where were Swiss colonies?
Welp, guess colonialism was not made this extra unpopular thing to do on international stage back then yet, and as the saying goes, if its down to us or them...

So if the US destroys drugs coming from Mexico it’s ok for the Mexicans to invade if they can and force us to legalize it?

That would be great in some ways, as it would finally get USA an official admission of Mexican government de facto not only legally recognizing, but protecting drug smuggling into US, with all the implications of that.

And for Japan if they did not accept trade they would have been bombed. By warships.

Woulda coulda shoulda. No one knows that. No one knows how well would it work out if it happened.

Also would Russia be justified to start a war over sanctions.

You mean the sanctions it got hit with for starting wars, the ones it got hit for playing not-sanctions with gas, or the ones it got hit with for assassinating people in NATO countries with nerve gas?

We’ll the hippies won so maybe their tactics are to be emulated instead of your space like cuckoldry to the west.

Unfortunately seems like absolutely no one in the world except the countries ruled by hippies is interested in emulating their tactics, just exploiting the fact others are retarded enough to follow them.
There's a reason why soviets considered them useful idiots and supported them like that. Their ideas and tactics are great... to wish upon your worst enemies.

Nope globohomo is the worst their the ones who will rape your children and army point and have everyone applaud it for being stunning and brave.

So your imaginary globohomo has guts to do just about the same as Russia and China actually do.

You are assuming that. You don’t know. I said what if every western city was destroyed all the farmland has bioweapons on it the entire Russian army is gone but the west still has whatever military forces aren’t near populated areas. You are the highest military officer.
Is this outcome worth it?
What do you think happens next?

It wasn't worth it, but it's also irrelevant, because that's extremely unlikely. We have rough numbers of warheads, yields, missiles etc. There's not enough for the kind of total destruction you imagine, period, it would take some kind of asspull on Russian side.

When I say someone has nukes it’s generally assumed they have delivery systems. It’s like saying someone has a gun but then you ask if they have bullets.

Delivery systems aren't equal in ability and aren't equally numerous, much like guns. Sometimes the gun can't shoot far enough. Sometimes it can but not well enough to deal with the defenses or will run out of ammo before targets run out. Sometimes it may not be quick enough to fire at all. For example for some part of cold war USA had the ability to nuke Moscow, but Soviets could not nuke continental USA, at most Alaska and US forces in allied countries in Europe.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Russia can survive just fine inside it's own borders, and none of Russia's neighbors should have to be subject to invasion just because of Moscow's imperial delusions.

Because that's what this is about, the delusions of still being an 'empire' that Putin is trying to stoke in the Russian people, and everything else a fig leaf to this end.

The other option is just to break up the Russian Federation and make it so large parts of central and eastern Asia don't have to bow to Moscow any further, and have their own nuclear deterrents from the legacy arsenal.

Either contain the Russian Federation or break it up; the brief window of sanity we saw in Russia after the Wall fell is a fluke and abnormality that will not repeat.

Sure break them up I get that but if you're going to do that you have to stay and rebuild like we did with Japan. You can't just go in smash things like Godzilla and then leave. You leave a power vacuum with a population of peed off people who will become your enemy. See the middle east for example. Half measures in war do NOTHING. Go all in with your objective or don't go in at all.

 

[IndyFront]

Sure break them up I get that but if you're going to do that you have to stay and rebuild like we did with Japan. You can't just go in smash things like Godzilla and then leave. You leave a power vacuum with a population of peed off people who will become your enemy. See the middle east for example. Half measures in war do NOTHING. Go all in with your objective or don't go in at all.

Ironically, Russia would probably be stronger as an alliance/coalition of like-minded independent states as opposed to ONE GIGANTIC BIGFUCKHUGE COUNTRY HOARDING 3.35% OF THE EARTH'S SURFACE. We need more Russians within their own country to start advocating a balkanization of the country. It's too fucking big. What the hell are people reasonably expected to do with all that goddamned land area?

 

[Bacle]

Sure break them up I get that but if you're going to do that you have to stay and rebuild like we did with Japan. You can't just go in smash things like Godzilla and then leave. You leave a power vacuum with a population of peed off people who will become your enemy. See the middle east for example. Half measures in war do NOTHING. Go all in with your objective or don't go in at all.

In the event of a break-up, the US would mostly focus on securing Russian nukes in the hands of at least neutral nations, ideally friendly, which would help provide a new counter-balance in central Asia and break the old Soviet/Russian imperial system for good.

Securing the west side of the Bering Straight in friendly hands as part of something like a Yakutian Republic is not a hard thing to do right, if we work with the Inuit and Aleut tribes that have been residing in the area for thousands of years, so we can do it right.

Kurile can go back to Japan, Georgia can get it's land's back, Moldova can get rid of that farce that is Transnistria, Dagestan/Chechnya can get free, Tuva can become an independent republic again, and Mongolia can reclaim a lot of it's former northern lands. Kazahkstan will probably expand a bit as well, even is just in diplo terms.

Moscow will likely be made into a 'former capital', not provincial, that reports to a new Russian Republic out of St. Petersberg or Sochi.

The post-Russian space would be a new frontier for diplomacy and economic competition, with the rump Russia barely more of a player than say the Netherlands or Pakistan in world affairs.