DarthOne
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I think they feel they need to in order to keep the money laundering going. People are getting ever more fed up and tired with this stuff. They need something to rally people behind.
Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2
- Thread starter Emperor Tippy
- Start date
British troops could deploy to Ukraine for first time to train soldiers, says Grant Shapps
Defence secretary says proposal being discussed would reduce reliance on UK and other Nato members’ bases
www.theguardian.com
It's a plan, not guaranteed anytime soon at least according to the PM
They started years ago. The recent Azerbaijan-Armenian only served to war accelerated it. Turkey has been chipping away at Islamic members of the CSTO Putin bullied into joining
All of which is civilian shipbuilding tech. China does not have the tools to build anything larger than a Guided missiles frigate and light cruisers.
A single Aircraft Carrier Group outmasses the entire Plan Navy. The USN has 11 Nuclear Carriers three Super Carriers and more being built. I'll worry about Chinese ships when they stop running from Pinoy frigates showing up. It's about time we start Headhunting again.
DarthOne
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You’d have to purge the Chinese influence from Western governments first.
What influence outside if fucking Canada?
DarthOne
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Biden (blackmail) and likely quite a bit of our political establishment. Probably quite a few in our military seeing the crypto-communists we’ve seen pop up from time to time. Or just the ones who want extra money in their bank account.
As I said on another thread-
I replied in that thread as it is more fitting for this discussion. So we don't derail.
The ones that want extra money are everywhere. Not just us, they have them as well.
And as I mentioned in the other thread, deals for Taiwan that are larger then anything prior.
The security guarantee's signed with Ukraine when they gave up their nukes were signed by the US, UK, and Russia, not NATO you dumbass.No, it doesn’t. That agreement is not legally binding.
Does the U.S. have an obligation to protect Ukraine?
A political science professor from James Madison University said the United States technically doesn't have to do anything.www.whsv.com
But I know people like you want to pretend that said security guarantee never happened, and you'll pretend you didn't know about, despite it being referenced repeatedly in this thread.
UK is sending trainers into Ukraine itself, instead of having Ukraine send it's troops to train in the UK at NATO bases.
UK also could have activated Art 5 already when the Russian's almost shotdown on of the aircraft escorting the grain convoys. Only reason they could hush it up for a bit is because the missiles fired at the UK ELINT plane missed/malfunctioned.
London is not scared of Moscow, and is not beholden to the US public's approval for military action.
Zach, don't be disingenuous on this, you know damn well the CCP have their hooks in a lot of DC.
DarthOne
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No, but it’s still an agreement not a treaty. And we’re still not legally obligated to follow regardless. It’s not as if the USA hasn’t gone back on its agreements before now.
Edit: also the idea that a second-rate power like the modern UK can take on even the current Russia is a joke. They’re even worse off the most of Europe. They have neither the spirit or will to move in any meaningful way without the rest of NATO or the USA. And this move has the globalists in either groups fingerprints all over it.
You may not like it, but that agreement still holds weight, and just going the internet equivalent of 'nuh uh' and 'lalala, I cannot hear you' doesn't change that fact.
Man, you are dumb as rocks if you think the UK is scared of Russia, or a less powerful nation than Russia at this point.
The UK has a navy that doesn't need it's main carriers to be towed around by a fucking tugboat in normal operations and accompany it everywhere like the Russian navy, the UK actually has effective R&D to produce things like Storm Shadow and isn't just rolling out PR models of limited production runs (T-14, Su-57) to try to pretend to be a great power. Most of the old Soviet manufacturing base was in Ukraine for the USSR, not in Russia itself, and shit, even the Rapucha-class landing ships that have been getting hit were originally built in Poland before the Berlin Wall fell.
Russia is not the Soviet Union, when it comes to military strength, production capacity, and competency, and the UK has a long memory of fighting against Russian aggression in the Black Sea; the Crimean War was a thing, you know. The UK also has been doing shit without DC's OK, because they do not feel they always need DC's support or permission to fuck up Russia's day, nor feel the need to consult the US public when they know how easily Russian psy-ops work against the US populace these days.
So gnash your teeth and try to ignore reality all you want, the Brits don't give a fuck and aren't subject to any control by the US populace.
DarthOne
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And your delusional if you think that the US won’t dispose of that agreement as ink on a page the moment it becomes inconvenient to them.
The Brits navy might be better then Russias but that’s not saying a hell of a lot. Russia may not be the Soviet Union but the UK sure as shit isn’t the British Empire. It’s not even a shadow of a shadow of the Empire.
Britain doesn’t have the numbers of vehicles, logistics or manpower to fight Russia on its own.
I’m not even going to touch on your doublethink with Russia not being the Soviet Union yet being such an unstoppable force that it will rule over Europe and be a threat to the USA in a few years if the USA/NATO doesn’t stop them now.
That's your view, and it's a view not borne out by the US's actions till now; if we were going to hang Ukraine out to dry, the aid that has already gone over would not have happened. When Zelensky didn't to flee in the first days, like the Pres of A-stan did when we began to leave, it showed that this wasn't going to be a waste to support Zelensky and Ukraine.
The UK don't need to have all their old colonies to have a good navy and air force.
The Royal Navy and Royal Air Force are still top notch services, and the SAS has lost none of it's shine like US spec-ops have.
The Brit's don't plan to beat Russia in land combat, when the RAF and RN air and missile strike are all that is needed to hobble Russia's infrastructure and units west of the Urals. Ground forces are secondary in British force composition and war plans, compared to air and naval units.
I never said that either, but I know you and reality have a touch and go relationship when it comes to the subject of Ukraine.
DarthOne
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Way to prove my damn point for me! We spent a decade in the Middle East, setting up a nation that would serve as a puppet state. And yet the moment we withdrew, we allowed the whole thing to fall apart because it wasn’t made to stand up on its own. Just what we’re subtly doing to Ukraine. Or do you really think we’re doing this just to stop Russia?
The moment Ukraine becomes a inconvenience to the US we’ll throw them and however many billions and lives spent away with no issue.
Also wars aren’t won just by missile strikes unless they’re nuclear or you manage to decapitate all the enemy leadership. Boots on the ground ultimately win wars. Otherwise the Nazis would have won against the UK.
And here we see your detachment from reality kicking in.
Ukraine is not A-stan, and that you cannot see that is just sad.
Stopping Russia from thinking it can get away with trying to invade and 'annex' places, and get to keep any of what it took, is definitely the main goal here.
Ukraine has suffered under Moscow's thumb before (Holomodor), and this time they have a chance to truly become independent of the whims of Moscow. Removing Russian forces from Crimea and the Donbas will force Russia and Putin to accept a defeat and accept they will never be the USSR or Imperial Russia ever again.
I highly doubt it, because Ukraine is going to be in NATO once Russian forces are removed, and will be rebuilt like we rebuild Germany and Japan, not this 'nation-building' bullshit in Iraq or A-stan.
The UK doesn't need nukes to neuter Russian ability to project force outside it's own borders, nor does it need to engage Russia in a ground war to help ensure the most dangerous bits of Russian force projection are no longer functional.
Because no one is talking about invading internationally recognized Russian territory (though supporting dissidents and ant-Putin factions inside Russia is on the table), just keeping Russia from being able to invade others.
Our SF hasn't gone down hill either.
Our versions of Tier 1, CAG, DEVGRU etc, are still the best around
I meant the public rep of the groups; SAS doesn't have the mired controversies around them like a lot of US SF groups have ended up with.
Ukraine is not some shithole in ME or Central Asia that's still one leg in iron age, it's a major country in Europe.
There's no need to twist yourself in a pretzel trying to make them resemble a modern country while also trying to not be accused of colonialism and islamophobia, when generous and enlightened Europeans often can't even bribe relatively small numbers of imported Afghans to assimilate, and not for lack of trying.
This comparison is disingenuous as fuck and you know it, do us a favor and explain the real reasons why you simp for Kremlin's imperial ambitions.
And you and your company are the people who argue it should be done ASAP, so, you're the last person to be taken seriously saying that.
Yes, and Ukraine has plenty of boots on their own damn ground.
Ohh you ment by controversy wise.
Ahhh
Bassoe
Well-known member
Nevertheless, realpolitik remains that strict adherence to the letter of that treaty would lead to the thermonuclear annihilation of civilization, so fuck it.