Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

[Zachowon]

lol. There is big difference between an uninhabited flat buffer zone where Russia is conducting a flexible defense and Bakhmut, an extremely heavily fortified and strategically important urban area the Ukrainian military defended to the death.

"Important"
Should I mention that yhe Russians don't have a flexible defense.
They have a defense in depth that is layered to allow maximum concentration after what would be basically a no man's land, should they have the artillery to make use of it.
That is an important aspect as we truly do not know how many defensive limes there are, and usually three is the normal. The third is often the strongest if not the second ti allow the third as a fall back point.

Learn tactics and strategy

 

[AnimalNoodles]

"Important"
Should I mention that yhe Russians don't have a flexible defense.
They have a defense in depth that is layered to allow maximum concentration after what would be basically a no man's land, should they have the artillery to make use of it.
That is an important aspect as we truly do not know how many defensive limes there are, and usually three is the normal. The third is often the strongest if not the second ti allow the third as a fall back point.

Learn tactics and strategy

Do you actually follow what they are doing in the buffer zone?

They engage ukrainian forces, then withdraw to high ground, hammer the ukrainians with artillery, rockets and air strikes, then counterattack. Over and over again.

The Ukrainians havent even made it to the first line yet.

 

[Zachowon]

Do you actually follow what they are doing in the buffer zone?

They engage ukrainian forces, then withdraw to high ground, hammer the ukrainians with artillery, rockets and air strikes, then counterattack. Over and over again.

The Ukrainians havent even made it to the first line yet.

Uh what?
The minefields were the first line.....
And if that was the case then Ukraine would nit have been able to recover any of the western vehicles they had abandoned...
Because the way a defense in depth works is you don't force your men to take losses in an Initial engagement. You use defensive belts of obstacles to allow that to be where you can focus artillery.
You just have to worry about counter battery operations so you can only focus on an area once then have to move.
Doing what you are saying is literally stupid because the artillery would have to remain in place...

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Uh what?
The minefields were the first line.....
And if that was the case then Ukraine would nit have been able to recover any of the western vehicles they had abandoned...
Because the way a defense in depth works is you don't force your men to take losses in an Initial engagement. You use defensive belts of obstacles to allow that to be where you can focus artillery.
You just have to worry about counter battery operations so you can only focus on an area once then have to move.
Doing what you are saying is literally stupid because the artillery would have to remain in place...

The russians have an initial buffer zone where they conduct a flexible defense. This is basically no mans land, full of mines and entrenchments, but it isnt contiguous nor is it meant to be held to the last.

Then, depending on the location, there are 2-4 lines of contiguous defenses about 10-20km behind the buffer zone. This is the so-called surovikin line. These lines are intended to be held strongly.

The Ukrainians havent even run onto this line yet., They are caught up in the buffer zone.

 

[IndyFront]

The russians have an initial buffer zone where they conduct a flexible defense. This is basically no mans land, full of mines and entrenchments, but it isnt contiguous nor is it meant to be held to the last.

Then, depending on the location, there are 2-4 lines of contiguous defenses about 10-20km behind the buffer zone. This is the so-called surovikin line. These lines are intended to be held strongly.

The Ukrainians havent even run onto this line yet., They are caught up in the buffer zone.

You're still forgetting about the artillery maaaaaaaannnnnnn

 

[Scottty]

You're still forgetting about the artillery maaaaaaaannnnnnn

What the Russian side calls "The Orchestra".

 

[Zachowon]

The russians have an initial buffer zone where they conduct a flexible defense. This is basically no mans land, full of mines and entrenchments, but it isnt contiguous nor is it meant to be held to the last.

Then, depending on the location, there are 2-4 lines of contiguous defenses about 10-20km behind the buffer zone. This is the so-called surovikin line. These lines are intended to be held strongly.

The Ukrainians havent even run onto this line yet., They are caught up in the buffer zone.

So again, a defense in depth.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

So again, a defense in depth.

uh yeah, and?

 

[Bacle]

GE stops servicing gas power turbines in Russia, Kommersant reports

General Electric has stopped servicing gas turbines at thermal power plants in Russia, the Russian business daily Kommersant reported on Tuesday, citing sources in power generating companies.

www.reuters.com

Well, wonder how long Russia will be able to keep it's normal thermal power plants running without GE helping maintain the turbine assemblies.

 

[LordsFire]

The Ukrainians havent even made it to the first line yet.

If this is the case, then how have the Ukrainians managed to liberate a bunch of towns?

 

[AnimalNoodles]

If this is the case, then how have the Ukrainians managed to liberate a bunch of towns?

you mean they captured some small, evacuated villages and hamlets that are inside the buffer zone and then got hammered by Russian artillery, rockets and air strikes? Yah, so?

The actual first line of solid defense is still 10km away.

They are finding out that you cant 'thunder run' an actual prepared defense.

 

[Cherico]

you mean they captured some small, evacuated villages and hamlets that are inside the buffer zone and then got hammered by Russian artillery, rockets and air strikes? Yah, so?

The actual first line of solid defense is still 10km away.

They are finding out that you cant 'thunder run' an actual prepared defense.

Honestly the fact they have done as well as they have is pretty much a fucking miracle, the Russians realistically should have utterly stomped the entire country in a couple months.

 

[IndyFront]

Honestly the fact they have done as well as they have is pretty much a fucking miracle, the Russians realistically should have utterly stomped the entire country in a couple months.

This. Just goes to show it may in fact be a proxy war between Russia and the West after all, as essentially every country considered "western" (including Japan) is in lockstep with supporting Ukraine by whatever means necessary

 

[Marduk]

This. Just goes to show it may in fact be a proxy war between Russia and the West after all, as essentially every country considered "western" (including Japan) is in lockstep with supporting Ukraine by whatever means necessary

TBH Japan of all places has some nice unfinished business with Russia to strongly push it to the anti side.

 

[King Arts]

This. Just goes to show it may in fact be a proxy war between Russia and the West after all, as essentially every country considered "western" (including Japan) is in lockstep with supporting Ukraine by whatever means necessary

TBH Japan of all places has some nice unfinished business with Russia to strongly push it to the anti side.

Yeah Russia really should have returned the Sakhalin islands to Japan long ago.

 

[LordsFire]

you mean they captured some small, evacuated villages and hamlets that are inside the buffer zone and then got hammered by Russian artillery, rockets and air strikes? Yah, so?

The actual first line of solid defense is still 10km away.

They are finding out that you cant 'thunder run' an actual prepared defense.

I'm curious, how much territory do the Ukrainians need to regain before you will consider it a success for them, rather than another round of 'clever Russian maneuvering wears the Ukrainians down' or somesuch?

Give me an amount of territory, or name a couple of particular cities/towns. Tell me what it will take for you to think things actually aren't going as planned for the Russians.

 

[Cherico]

I'm curious, how much territory do the Ukrainians need to regain before you will consider it a success for them, rather than another round of 'clever Russian maneuvering wears the Ukrainians down' or somesuch?

Give me an amount of territory, or name a couple of particular cities/towns. Tell me what it will take for you to think things actually aren't going as planned for the Russians.

This war is far from over its likely going to last years.

Russia might be using older weapons and have badly trained troops but they still outnumber the Ukranians 3 to 1 and value the lives of their own troops very little. Ukraine is going to have to do a fuck more damage and kill a lot more people before this conflict ends and their current kill ratios are no where near enough to win.

Because they cant win a war of attrition, this has to become a war of manuver and their just not making that happen right now. I wish them well but their going to have to seriously up their game to win this.

 

[Zachowon]

How many people do you think Russia has available to pull without declaring war?

 

[The Whispering Monk]

How many people do you think Russia has available to pull without declaring war?

The fact that all this has happened without that declaration is mind boggling to me.
How many dead Russians do we think now?

 

[Bacle]

Well, think a new ad for Ford just dropped; did not expect to see F350's hauling M777s around Ukraine.

Don't think a Hilux would be able to do the same.