Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

[Marduk]

Nope, what you said is that I am not familiar with him.
I am, stop moving goalposts.

Stop debate larping like some kek, and complaining about the same as you do.
You said this:

I am sure you were axquante with Mr. MacIntyre's body of work waaaay before I posted this.
This is Sarcasm, btw.

No, reposting links for him like you do with hour long videos does not mean the same thing as being familiar with his body of work.

Oh, pray tell how they have an Imperial delusion that involves Poland at the moment?
I do not see them doing anything to you guys that is above and beyond your tit-for-tat game.

"now".
Yeah, take that tactical vigilance countering back to Moscow.
For some reason even Putin is not insane enough to open yet another front with NATO right now. But the same long term plans that contain Ukraine being in Russia's "sphere of influence" also include Poland being in it.
When they start putting those plans into practice, it will be too late to prepare, and much harder to derail the plans than doing it earlier.

And my negative views on the partition and on them trying to get you to stop using shliokavitsa are well known.

Great, but that in no way negate Russian establishment's imperial ambitions both then and now.

You guys fit in any type of Slavic or Russian "mir" as well as a saddle fits on a camel.

As if such concerns ever stopped Russia trying to make us fit by hook or by crook. If even such exotic cultures as bloody Caucasian Muslims and Asian nomadic peoples from far east fit well enough for them to try, so do we.

Which is not to say that you are not likable and should not trade with the orthodox Cyrillic user true Slavs!

If we can trust them with that, which historically seems to be the case only if they don't have the upper hand.

Why don't you make a thread about Polish-Russian relations after the fall of the USSR/Putin coming into power so you can vent your frustrations there?

Why don't you stop thinking anyone cares about your opinion on how the forum should be ordered and who should post what where?

Beats us spamming this thread.

Look at you, linking random Russia shilling videos with not even a sentence of description, calling others spammers, which is what started our current exchange.

Look, you are the one that has to go into every single thread about Russia and and incessantly try to attack people's opinions and sources, so I will mock you for it.

I do not capitulate to your form of bully tactics and whataboutism!

You go into every single thread about Russia and try to shill its interests and attack everyone who doesn't like it with word vomit resembling a retarded teenager who just discovered 4chan memes and i will mock you for it.

Zelensky is an oligarchic media creature astroturfed into power Igor Kolomoyski.
He is very corrupt, he can't lead, he got in on a platform to actually end the combat in donbass and give dem ethnic Russkies, or as they call em, "Russian speakers" their autonomy.

Don't care even if its true, which is unlikely, if he can't lead why didn't the dear leader of all vatniks who surely is a strategic genius win yet, and your attempt to push the outdated tactical ruse of "muh ethnic Russians just wanted autonomy" in 2024 instead of 2014 is noted and officially laughed out.
As i said, Ukrainians can make a horse their president for all i care and it won't change anything.

Then, he proved completely unable to govern and his ratings collapsed right before the SMO started.

The rest of Ukraine is just as bad, he is just an attention whore, sometimes puppet, although one with loosened strings pulled from many directions, since his main patron got yeeted and chased, probably soon to be convenient scapegoat.

Puppet or not, it would make a pretty damn big puppet and as many smart people put it, Russia cannot be a proper empire without Ukraine, which is about exactly how anyone with any braincells in Poland wants things to stay.

 

[Agent23]

Stop debate larping like some kek, and complaining about the same as you do.
You said this:

No, reposting links for him like you do with hour long videos does not mean the same thing as being familiar with his body of work.

Yep, sure, not moving the goalposts at all and claiming I am not familiar with a particular source...

"now".

Stop cheating:

Oh, pray tell how they have an Imperial delusion that involves Poland at the moment?
I do not see them doing anything to you guys that is above and beyond your tit-for-tat game.
...

Why don't you make a thread about Polish-Russian relations after the fall of the USSR/Putin coming into power so you can vent your frustrations there?

If you don't get it i am talking about your recent history post the fall of the USSR.

Great, but that in no way negate Russian establishment's imperial ambitions both then and now.

What imperial ambitions?

If we can trust them with that, which historically seems to be the case only if they don't have the upper hand.

Again, I don't see any attempts on their end to try to take you over, or a stomach or a political need to do so.

Why don't you stop thinking anyone cares about your opinion on how the forum should be ordered and who should post what where?

Look at you, linking random Russia shilling videos with not even a sentence of description, calling others spammers, which is what started our current exchange.

There is a 7 minute short clip from it that works as a sort of summary and that I have linked in addition to it.
And it is not like the NAFOs here don't just post a bunch of comment free linke to Twitter all the time with maybe the occasional bit of self-congratuatory gibberish if you are lucky.

You go into every single thread about Russia and try to shill its interests and attack everyone who doesn't like it with word vomit resembling a retarded teenager who just discovered 4chan memes and i will mock you for it.

I view Ukraine as a mostly artificially assembled state that was carved out of parts of Russia and Poland.
I think Russia has legitimate interests in the area.

Don't care even if its true, which is unlikely, if he can't lead why didn't the dear leader of all vatniks who surely is a strategic genius win yet, and your attempt to push the outdated tactical ruse of "muh ethnic Russians just wanted autonomy" in 2024 instead of 2014 is noted and officially laughed out.
As i said, Ukrainians can make a horse their president for all i care and it won't change anything.

Ah, I see, it is irrelevant if the cat has fleas that carry bubonic plague and doesn't give a shit about catching mice, as long as it is a cat that wants to scratch Russians.

Thanks, lots of people probably didn't know that you would kiss up to Hillary if she wanted to go to war with the Russians.

Puppet or not, it would make a pretty damn big puppet and as many smart people put it, Russia cannot be a proper empire without Ukraine, which is about exactly how anyone with any braincells in Poland wants things to stay.

Oh, really, do explain why dem darned Russkies wanna be an empire, and why a country that spans 11 timezones and has a population of 150 million and the largest in total land size on the planet needs Ukraine to be an "empire".

 

[Marduk]

Yep, sure, not moving the goalposts at all and claiming I am not familiar with a particular source...

Stop cheating:

It's not cheating if we never agreed on not doing that.

If you don't get it i am talking about your recent history post the fall of the USSR.

I don't care and i refuse your artificial choice of timeframe and interpretation of what we should consider when estimating the threat level of Russian ambitions. Sorry, conflict of interests and all that. Also Russia was insistent on legal continuity with USSR to keep their UNSC seat and other perks, so others are well justified to see that continuity too.

What imperial ambitions?

Belarus, Ukraine, shady deals with Germany, triune state and people, rings a bell?
And let's not even get into Caucasus and Africa because we all care less about those.

Again, I don't see any attempts on their end to try to take you over, or a stomach or a political need to do so.

How great it is then that you are not in charge of Poland's national security when you don't see such issues. Not that you need to, those aren't your issues. But spare the others the clumsy attempt to throw sand in their eyes.

There is a 7 minute short clip from it that works as a sort of summary and that I have linked in addition to it.
And it is not like the NAFOs here don't just post a bunch of comment free linke to Twitter all the time with maybe the occasional bit of self-congratuatory gibberish if you are lucky.

Yes, i know you don't like the NAFOs, and you know that it's mutual, and they know it's mutual.
It would be an upgrade if you posted only short pieces of Russian interest shilling gibberish instead of hour long pieces of Russian interest shilling gibberish, and i refuse to give hours, or even minutes of my time to giving views to the shills in question.

I view Ukraine as a mostly artificially assembled state that was carved out of parts of Russia and Poland.
I think Russia has legitimate interests in the area.

Whatevers. By that logic Poland also at least as legitimate interests in the area, and i officially and openly want them to trump the Russian interests.

Ah, I see, it is irrelevant if the cat has fleas that carry bubonic plague and doesn't give a shit about catching mice, as long as it is a cat that wants to scratch Russians.

Yes, Russian ambitions are a bigger threat and problem to us than bubonic plague or Ukraine times ten.

Thanks, lots of people probably didn't know that you would kiss up to Hillary if she wanted to go to war with the Russians.

We know for a fact Russian leaders would kiss up to Hillary if it would benefit them for they did exactly that in the past, so we have no reason to impose such qualms upon ourselves.
Interests, alliances of convenience, all that.

Oh, really, do explain why dem darned Russkies wanna be an empire, and why a country that spans 11 timezones and has a population of 150 million and the largest in total land size on the planet needs Ukraine to be an "empire".

Most of that land is quite miserable to live on, and any self-respecting feudal lord and his vassals even more always want more serfs, even if they have a lot already.
They do support that in their actions. If they have so much land and it's enough, why did they ever send a single Russian soldier to Ukraine, nevermind the bulk of standing army, and then a mobilization to send even more when that turned out to be not enough? It seems they do need the Ukrainian land for something, and they need it quite a lot at that.
Whether you or i think they are right or wrong to think they do, that does appear to be what they think, and they don't seem to care what others think of their judgement.

 

[Agent23]

It's not cheating if we never agreed on not doing that.

I don't care and i refuse your artificial choice of timeframe and interpretation of what we should consider when estimating the threat level of Russian ambitions. Sorry, conflict of interests and all that. Also Russia was insistent on legal continuity with USSR to keep their UNSC seat and other perks, so others are well justified to see that continuity too.

Geez, I'd love to have our place swapped with yours and see what you'd feel like towards the Turks after 500 years.

Belarus, Ukraine, shady deals with Germany, triune state and people, rings a bell?
And let's not even get into Caucasus and Africa because we all care less about those.

Russia and those other 2 "triune" statesthar were for hundreds of years the Russian heartland make up a civilization onto it's own along with the other eastern Orthodox Slavs, it is a big club, and while I am perfectly happy with you staying out of it, it is a thing.
Dugin?
Nope, Huntington.

How great it is then that you are not in charge of Poland's national security when you don't see such issues. Not that you need to, those aren't your issues. But spare the others the clumsy attempt to throw sand in their eyes.

Ok, your argument boils down to bluster and "trust me, bro."

Yes, i know you don't like the NAFOs, and you know that it's mutual, and they know it's mutual.

Yeah, sure, we are are on the same page, need at 11.

It would be an upgrade if you posted only short pieces of Russian interest shilling gibberish instead of hour long pieces of Russian interest shilling gibberish, and i refuse to give hours, or even minutes of my time to giving views to the shills in question.

NewPipe - a free YouTube client

newpipe.net

Listen at 3x.

Whatevers. By that logic Poland also at least as legitimate interests in the area, and i officially and openly want them to trump the Russian interests.

Sure, you can have Galicia or whatever.
I am sure the locals will be happy.
If you get a referendum for them to rejoin you going it will be just fine from my end.

Yes, Russian ambitions are a bigger threat and problem to us than bubonic plague or Ukraine times ten.

I love how you suddenly become dense as plutonium when I obviously use sarcasm.

We know for a fact Russian leaders would kiss up to Hillary if it would benefit them for they did exactly that in the past, so we have no reason to impose such qualms upon ourselves.
Interests, alliances of convenience, all that.

Lots of people were trying to kiss up to Hitler back then.

You guys had a sorts wuid pro auo alliance with the guy, Chamberlain was actually hoping to use him against Hitler and the Anglo part of the Anglo-American established was kinda simping for him.

You have a childishly cartoonish view of the pre-WWII diplomatic situation.

Also, great job going the Muh Nazis/Everything I don't like is literally Hitler.
And Stalin was a Georgian Commie, might I remind you.

Most of that land is quite miserable to live on, and any self-respecting feudal lord and his vassals even more always want more serfs, even if they have a lot already.

>Muh serfs.
>Muh feudal lords.
Yeah, ok, sure...

They do support that in their actions. If they have so much land and it's enough, why did they ever send a single Russian soldier to Ukraine, nevermind the bulk of standing army, and then a mobilization to send even more when that turned out to be not enough? It seems they do need the Ukrainian land for something, and they need it quite a lot at that.

Because there are Russians there, you knowz the ones you were advocating be yeeted out to Russia?
Something - something black feet.

Whether you or i think they are right or wrong to think they do, that does appear to be what they think, and they don't seem to care what others think of their judgement.

 

[Zachowon]

Didn't Bill suck up to the Russians plenty?

 

[Agent23]

Didn't Bill suck up to the Russians plenty?

Clinton?

Pffttt.

 

[AmosTrask]

Recap on Russian tanks in Ukraine and why Russia avoided deploying their T-90 in Ukraine until forced to do so.

 

[Marduk]

Geez, I'd love to have our place swapped with yours and see what you'd feel like towards the Turks after 500 years.

Yet as of now Turks don't have nukes to hide their more or less overt attempts at continuing their fuckery behind and oil to fund it, while Russians do.
Imagine if we swapped timelines and you nor Turkey were in NATO, Turkey had oil and nukes, and claimed you as their historically legitimate sphere of influence or something under threat of nuking anyone who interferes with their enforcement of it.

Russia and those other 2 "triune" statesthar were for hundreds of years the Russian heartland make up a civilization onto it's own along with the other eastern Orthodox Slavs, it is a big club, and while I am perfectly happy with you staying out of it, it is a thing.

Ah, so here you have the Russian ambitions you asked bout.
Do they get to stay out of it if they don't want to?
If they don't get to, what guarantee do we get that Russians won't change their minds on it for us a little later?

Belarusians' struggle to save their language despite discrimination • Voice of Belarus

Why are Belarusian speakers faced with daily discrimination in their home country, ranging from verbal abuse to arrests? Can Belarusian be saved in spite of systemic discrimination? The new film by Voice of Belarus, Malanka Media and Human Rights Center Viasna examines the challenges and...

www.voiceofbelarus.org

Within that "lovely" club Russia is committing cultural destruction against other slavic nations. They were doing exactly the same to us when they had the chance too, so we have no doubt they would again when they could.

This is not something to be forgiven, and especially not ignored as it goes on.

Dugin?
Nope, Huntington.

The latter not using it to deny the independence of the other nations, like the other.
If one used the same logic for Western civilization, certain other "uniters of Europe" would love it.

Ok, your argument boils down to bluster and "trust me, bro."

Welp, yours is "Trust Russia's peaceful and isolationist nature, bro", to which i say, lol, lmao even, there is nothing to trust here.

Yeah, sure, we are are on the same page, need at 11.

NewPipe - a free YouTube client

newpipe.net

Listen at 3x.

Read enough of the same angle of Russian shilling for it to not be worth a microsecond of my time. As i said, i would support Ukraine against Russia even if Ukraine made a horse its president. Zelensky is probably better at the job than a horse would be though. Whether by just a little or a lot, doesn't matter.

Sure, you can have Galicia or whatever.
I am sure the locals will be happy.
If you get a referendum for them to rejoin you going it will be just fine from my end.

We don't want Galicia nor try to "referendum" bullshit its denizens, for we know they would not be happy. We want Russia to not have Galicia, and many other places, so by method of elimination, we have to want them to be independent, preferably allied to us or our allies at least. We can live with that, and they can live with that, if Muscovites can't live with that fuck them.

I love how you suddenly become dense as plutonium when I obviously use sarcasm.

I love how you are always dense as a neutron star when you try to make nonsensical arguments about how totally non-threatening to Polish interests Russia is.

Lots of people were trying to kiss up to Hitler back then.

You guys had a sorts wuid pro auo alliance with the guy, Chamberlain was actually hoping to use him against Hitler and the Anglo part of the Anglo-American established was kinda simping for him.

What? Chamberlain was kissing up to... Hitler, to... use him against Hitler? Dude... We are entering alternate dimension physics right here.

You have a childishly cartoonish view of the pre-WWII diplomatic situation.

Also, great job going the Muh Nazis/Everything I don't like is literally Hitler.
And Stalin was a Georgian Commie, might I remind you.

Yeah, yeah, more Russian Empire by whatever form did nothing wrong line and if it did you deserved it line.

>Muh serfs.
>Muh feudal lords.
Yeah, ok, sure...

Because there are Russians there, you knowz the ones you were advocating be yeeted out to Russia?
Something - something black feet.

So Russia considers the terrible fate of... being yeeted to Russia out of poverty ridden Ukraine such a massive crime against people who supposedly love Russia and its glorious leadership, that they would rather fight the biggest war in Europe since WW2, with hundreds of thousands own dead, including a disproportionate amount of the Ukraine dwelling ethnic Russians, just for the sake of... saving Russia loving Russians from ending up in Russia, and then, to add another layer of irony, formally annex the artillery flattened lands they used to live on into Russia anyway, while strongly encouraging them to move into Russia proper and accept Russian citizenship too?

Sure, makes sense. What happened to the massive swathes of land that Russia has and due to which it would never need any more? Don't they have kinda shitty demographics like everyone else in Europe?

It would be as if Poland declared total war on Germany in the 90's if Germany decided to deport Polish immigrants and guest workers to Poland. It would make no sense. It would be an annoyance at the moment and a bit of a hostile gesture for sure, but ironically, in long term, it would be more of an unintended stop against emmigration.

Likewise, Russia is welcoming migrants from Central Asia and being happy if they speak Russian at all and are not beheading anyone, they should be fucking celebrating if Ukrainians were going to make few millions of outright Russia lovers migrate to Russia in short order, for free, just like that, they should be paying the Ukrainian nationalists to make it happen.

What do you think Germany would think if USA decided right now that they will send 10-20 million Germany loving, German descended people back to Germany? Of course in public they would have to act outraged. But behind closed doors? Hooray, who needs the hare brained third world migration schemes, now we can have actual Germans to plug all the demographics issues with. This is completely inconsistent with everything else that is publicly know about Russian economic and demographic situation.

Of course that only works if Russia is as good of a country to live in as it claims, while the people in eastern and southern Ukraine are as genuinely loving that hypothetically great country as much as Russian state media claim.
The dreaded NAFOs answer this with saying that obviously neither of these things are true, and one of Russia's motivators was that too many of the Ukraine dwelling Russians will be sooner culturally assimilated to Ukrainian (or by economic migration, other western) nationality rather than willingly move to Russia, leaving them with much less influence in Ukraine's affairs than in the past. Pretty much perfectly mirroring Russia's maneuvering around Latvia, minus the NATO membership.
What is your answer?

 

[Bacle]

Well, the flooding on the Tobol river in Russia has reached and flooded a uranium mine, and may be creating/spreading radioactive mud now.

 

[AmosTrask]

Well, the flooding on the Tobol river in Russia has reached and flooded a uranium mine, and may be creating/spreading radioactive mud now.

Given they charged taxpayers 30 million USD to build a dam. And instead of a modern dam they have a dirt levee. Not even a graded, packed and seeded levee. Just a dirt mound. . . Many cities are currently flooding for the same reason. Their mayors and governors stole the money and conscripted the civil engineers and workers manning the dikes

 

[Agent23]

Yet as of now Turks don't have nukes to hide their more or less overt attempts at continuing their fuckery behind and oil to fund it, while Russians do.
Imagine if we swapped timelines and you nor Turkey were in NATO, Turkey had oil and nukes, and claimed you as their historically legitimate sphere of influence or something under threat of nuking anyone who interferes with their enforcement of it.

Ah, so here you have the Russian ambitions you asked bout.
Do they get to stay out of it if they don't want to?
If they don't get to, what guarantee do we get that Russians won't change their minds on it for us a little later?

Belarusians' struggle to save their language despite discrimination • Voice of Belarus

Why are Belarusian speakers faced with daily discrimination in their home country, ranging from verbal abuse to arrests? Can Belarusian be saved in spite of systemic discrimination? The new film by Voice of Belarus, Malanka Media and Human Rights Center Viasna examines the challenges and...

www.voiceofbelarus.org

Within that "lovely" club Russia is committing cultural destruction against other slavic nations. They were doing exactly the same to us when they had the chance too, so we have no doubt they would again when they could.

>Cry about Russian propaganda.
>Try and substitute the propaganda of various US hirelings like the so called opposition and rando bullshit NGOs.

Given that you guys were more than happy to suppress "belarussian" too I don't see how you might be the one to complain about that language and its "disgusting" Cyrillic you like to ridicule and hate on so much.

This is not something to be forgiven, and especially not ignored as it goes on.

The latter not using it to deny the independence of the other nations, like the other.
If one used the same logic for Western civilization, certain other "uniters of Europe" would love it.

>Muh nazis...
Cool story bro. Haven't you received the news, we are all nazis here if you ask SB and SV.
Also, great job proving Goduin's law.

A large portion of Ukraine is inhabited by people who are culturally Russian, aka the Russian speakers.

Welp, yours is "Trust Russia's peaceful and isolationist nature, bro", to which i say, lol, lmao even, there is nothing to trust here.

When have I said they are isolationist, exactly?
They have interests and due to the commies being incompetent and collapsing and due to the west fucking with them a lot of native Russian lands and places with large Russian minorities have become parts other hastily invented countries.

However, unlike a certain someone I do not think their interests involve taking over Poland or the whole of Ukraine.

Read enough of the same angle of Russian shilling for it to not be worth a microsecond of my time. As i said, i would support Ukraine against Russia even if Ukraine made a horse its president. Zelensky is probably better at the job than a horse would be though. Whether by just a little or a lot, doesn't matter.

Yes, by this point we all know you are bellicose, Russophobic to the extreme and get angry whenever somebody tells you no.
Like a typical spoiled tsundere.

We don't want Galicia nor try to "referendum" bullshit its denizens, for we know they would not be happy. We want Russia to not have Galicia, and many other places, so by method of elimination, we have to want them to be independent, preferably allied to us or our allies at least. We can live with that, and they can live with that, if Muscovites can't live with that fuck them.

I think that the Russians won't care if Lovov and all of those other western bits stay independent as Galicia or become part of Poland.
I certainly don't care as long as the EU/NATO is not footing any bill and trade is not disrupted after.

I love how you are always dense as a neutron star when you try to make nonsensical arguments about how totally non-threatening to Polish interests Russia is.

What? Chamberlain was kissing up to... Hitler, to... use him against Hitler? Dude... We are entering alternate dimension physics right here.

No, parts of the British elite were trying to pivot closer to Germany because they were hoping they could use it against the USSR.

Yeah, yeah, more Russian Empire by whatever form did nothing wrong line and if it did you deserved it line.

Look dude, you are the one that is denser than a super-massive black hole.
I do not like commies, I do not like Stalin, Stalin was a commie dictator of Georgian extraction, not a Russian.

So Russia considers the terrible fate of... being yeeted to Russia out of poverty ridden Ukraine such a massive crime against people who supposedly love Russia and its glorious leadership, that they would rather fight the biggest war in Europe since WW2, with hundreds of thousands own dead, including a disproportionate amount of the Ukraine dwelling ethnic Russians, just for the sake of... saving Russia loving Russians from ending up in Russia, and then, to add another layer of irony, formally annex the artillery flattened lands they used to live on into Russia anyway, while strongly encouraging them to move into Russia proper and accept Russian citizenship too?

Except that those territories your favorite Banderistas were trying to yeet the Russians out of were Russian hundreds of years before there ever WAS a Ukraine.
And we are talking about millions of people getting uprooted.

Why not ask your neighbors to the west how a sudden influx of impoverished migrants "helps" their economies?

Sure, makes sense. What happened to the massive swathes of land that Russia has and due to which it would never need any more? Don't they have kinda shitty demographics like everyone else in Europe?

It would be as if Poland declared total war on Germany in the 90's if Germany decided to deport Polish immigrants and guest workers to Poland. It would make no sense. It would be an annoyance at the moment and a bit of a hostile gesture for sure, but ironically, in long term, it would be more of an unintended stop against emmigration.

Likewise, Russia is welcoming migrants from Central Asia and being happy if they speak Russian at all and are not beheading anyone, they should be fucking celebrating if Ukrainians were going to make few millions of outright Russia lovers migrate to Russia in short order, for free, just like that, they should be paying the Ukrainian nationalists to make it happen.

What do you think Germany would think if USA decided right now that they will send 10-20 million Germany loving, German descended people back to Germany? Of course in public they would have to act outraged. But behind closed doors? Hooray, who needs the hare brained third world migration schemes, now we can have actual Germans to plug all the demographics issues with. This is completely inconsistent with everything else that is publicly know about Russian economic and demographic situation.

Of course that only works if Russia is as good of a country to live in as it claims, while the people in eastern and southern Ukraine are as genuinely loving that hypothetically great country as much as Russian state media claim.
The dreaded NAFOs answer this with saying that obviously neither of these things are true, and one of Russia's motivators was that too many of the Ukraine dwelling Russians will be sooner culturally assimilated to Ukrainian (or by economic migration, other western) nationality rather than willingly move to Russia, leaving them with much less influence in Ukraine's affairs than in the past. Pretty much perfectly mirroring Russia's maneuvering around Latvia, minus the NATO membership.
What is your answer?

Oh, look, more pointless rhetoric.

How would you poles like it if some aliens uprooted you from all your beloved river bogs and moved you to a bunch of domes on mars?


I am sure a lot of you won't be royally pissed and demand to b e returned home ASAP.

This conversation is going nowhere, other than to satisfy your need to be the last to post.

 

[Marduk]

>Cry about Russian propaganda.
>Try and substitute the propaganda of various US hirelings like the so called opposition and rando bullshit NGOs.

Ukrainian hirelings, not US ones, as a point against your Russian hireling.

Given that you guys were more than happy to suppress "belarussian" too I don't see how you might be the one to complain about that language and its "disgusting" Cyrillic you like to ridicule and hate on so much.

Great example of Russian pseudomoralizing - other people did questionable things in the distant past when those and worse were common, hence we are free to do even worse things now and forever.

>Muh nazis...
Cool story bro. Haven't you received the news, we are all nazis here if you ask SB and SV.
Also, great job proving Goduin's law.

A large portion of Ukraine is inhabited by people who are culturally Russian, aka the Russian speakers.

LMAO. USA is populated almost fully by people who are culturally English, aka the English speakers, hence a British SMO in Boston is incoming sometime in indefinite future.
Don't cry leftard attack when you are repeating Dear Leader level propaganda talking points just because it's Russia.

When have I said they are isolationist, exactly?
They have interests and due to the commies being incompetent and collapsing and due to the west fucking with them a lot of native Russian lands and places with large Russian minorities have become parts other hastily invented countries.

So they do have a "former empire" that they do want to restore, however we call it or consider it justifiable or not (which we obviously disagree on vehemently), can we agree on that?

However, unlike a certain someone I do not think their interests involve taking over Poland or the whole of Ukraine.

What you think Russian leaders consider their interests is irrelevant, what they say is slightly relevant, and how they act is truly relevant.
I think it is quite ridiculous that both you, Putin, and other Russian VIPs outright say that Ukraine as a political entity and Ukrainian nation are fake, and some say they should be gone, while others only imply that, yet expect the rest of us to also believe that they only want Ukraine, and not even all of it.

Yes, by this point we all know you are bellicose, Russophobic to the extreme and get angry whenever somebody tells you no.

I take such comments the same way as the western rightwingers take accusations of islamophobia coming from bearded men who make it their hobby to tell everyone how great Sharia is and how the world will be ruled by it one day. It's not a phobia if it's rational, and there is plenty of evidence that it is. Take this silly phobia comments to SJWs, they may care about it.

Like a typical spoiled tsundere.

I think that the Russians won't care if Lovov and all of those other western bits stay independent as Galicia or become part of Poland.

But you said Russia has so much land, why do they need the bulk of Ukraine for then?
As we have established, if there are genuine Russians in Ukraine who are so oppressed, wouldn't they (and Russia) be better off if they were to move and help Russia's demographic problems?

I certainly don't care as long as the EU/NATO is not footing any bill and trade is not disrupted after.

Since when it's Russia's business what NATO pays for? It's NATO money, Moscow can fuck off from that.

No, parts of the British elite were trying to pivot closer to Germany because they were hoping they could use it against the USSR.

Yet they didn't.

Look dude, you are the one that is denser than a super-massive black hole.
I do not like commies, I do not like Stalin, Stalin was a commie dictator of Georgian extraction, not a Russian.

I'm also talking of Russian conquests before Stalin and commies.

Except that those territories your favorite Banderistas were trying to yeet the Russians out of were Russian hundreds of years before there ever WAS a Ukraine.

Crimea was Turkish for longer than it was Russian or Ukrainian yet Russia uses the same argument there.
Sorry, demographic rearrangements happened after Germany lost WW2 and no one, including Russia, said a word, some lesser ones happened after Soviets lost the Cold War, Russia should shut the fuck up and be happy becaase they got off easily with the 1991 borders and general status quo already.
Yes, there was no Ukraine before... because Russia made damn sure it was the case, fought quite a few battles to make it so, and are fighting some more yet again right now.

And we are talking about millions of people getting uprooted.

As if Russia didn't do the same and more. As if it wasn't doing the same now. If it's ok for Russia to do, then it's ok for it to be done to Russia, nevermind to Russians in countries that are not Russia. If Muslims used that argument against Spain or other recently colonized by them western states, we would both be calling anyone eating up this bullshit a bunch of retarded SJWs who hate their countries.

Why not ask your neighbors to the west how a sudden influx of impoverished migrants "helps" their economies?

The migrants are impoverished savages from alien cultures, not their compatriots they supposedly care about so much and are loved by in return. Are you trying to say that the Ukrainian Russians are as ethnoculturally compatible with Russia as Arabs and Africans are with Germany? Weren't you saying the people in question are so Russian that Russia is justified to fight a war for them?
For a fair comparison, Poland has an actual repatriation program for descendants of Poles deported to odd parts of Russian Empire and Soviet Union, even though they are generally part russified.

Poland to bring in exiled ethnic Poles

Decision follows debate over EU plan to share 120,000 refugees from Middle East, Africa and Asia among its members.

www.aljazeera.com

If Poland can do it, why can't oh so great and reasonable Russia? No one could be outraged about that. Not enough oil money? Not enough space? Certainly not.
But by Russian logic, we should have used their existence to conquer every single place there is a Polish minority that we think is not treated properly.

Oh, look, more pointless rhetoric.

How would you poles like it if some aliens uprooted you from all your beloved river bogs and moved you to a bunch of domes on mars?

How would Ukrainians? Russia won't ask though.

I am sure a lot of you won't be royally pissed and demand to b e returned home ASAP.

But Moscow is Muscovite's home and no one was going to take it from them, not Odessa, not Donbass, and certainly not Crimea LMAO.

This conversation is going nowhere, other than to satisfy your need to be the last to post.

So the same as usual.

 

[Zachowon]

Remember. Alaska used to be Russian.
They should try to retake it

 

[Agent23]

Ukrainian hirelings, not US ones, as a point against your Russian hireling.

Potaito, potato..

Great example of Russian pseudomoralizing - other people did questionable things in the distant past when those and worse were common, hence we are free to do even worse things now and forever.

As opposed to yours?

LMAO. USA is populated almost fully by people who are culturally English, aka the English speakers, hence a British SMO in Boston is incoming sometime in indefinite future.
Don't cry leftard attack when you are repeating Dear Leader level propaganda talking points just because it's Russia.

Except that there isn't a latino or African-American dictator terrorizing the Wasps, yet.
And the UK is still the UK's bitch.

Apples and oranges.

So they do have a "former empire" that they do want to restore, however we call it or consider it justifiable or not (which we obviously disagree on vehemently), can we agree on that?

What you think Russian leaders consider their interests is irrelevant, what they say is slightly relevant, and how they act is truly relevant.
I think it is quite ridiculous that both you, Putin, and other Russian VIPs outright say that Ukraine as a political entity and Ukrainian nation are fake, and some say they should be gone, while others only imply that, yet expect the rest of us to also believe that they only want Ukraine, and not even all of it.

I take such comments the same way as the western rightwingers take accusations of islamophobia coming from bearded men who make it their hobby to tell everyone how great Sharia is and how the world will be ruled by it one day. It's not a phobia if it's rational, and there is plenty of evidence that it is. Take this silly phobia comments to SJWs, they may care about it.

But you said Russia has so much land, why do they need the bulk of Ukraine for then?
As we have established, if there are genuine Russians in Ukraine who are so oppressed, wouldn't they (and Russia) be better off if they were to move and help Russia's demographic problems?

Since when it's Russia's business what NATO pays for? It's NATO money, Moscow can fuck off from that.

Yet they didn't.

I'm also talking of Russian conquests before Stalin and commies.

Crimea was Turkish for longer than it was Russian or Ukrainian yet Russia uses the same argument there.

Actually Crimean was Bulgarian before it was anyone else's.

Well, with a small bit being Greko-Byzantine.

The less can be summed in "blah blah, yadda yadda, usual whataboutism from Marduk."

Sorry, demographic rearrangements happened after Germany lost WW2 and no one, including Russia, said a word, some lesser ones happened after Soviets lost the Cold War, Russia should shut the fuck up and be happy becaase they got off easily with the 1991 borders and general status quo already.
Yes, there was no Ukraine before... because Russia made damn sure it was the case, fought quite a few battles to make it so, and are fighting some more yet again right now.

Ah, usual bullshit talking points, but then again you have said unequivocally that you will support any form of bullshit as long as it is anti-Russia.

As if Russia didn't do the same and more. As if it wasn't doing the same now. If it's ok for Russia to do, then it's ok for it to be done to Russia, nevermind to Russians in countries that are not Russia. If Muslims used that argument against Spain or other recently colonized by them western states, we would both be calling anyone eating up this bullshit a bunch of retarded SJWs who hate their countries.

The migrants are impoverished savages from alien cultures, not their compatriots they supposedly care about so much and are loved by in return. Are you trying to say that the Ukrainian Russians are as ethnoculturally compatible with Russia as Arabs and Africans are with Germany? Weren't you saying the people in question are so Russian that Russia is justified to fight a war for them?
For a fair comparison, Poland has an actual repatriation program for descendants of Poles deported to odd parts of Russian Empire and Soviet Union, even though they are generally part russified.

Poland to bring in exiled ethnic Poles

Decision follows debate over EU plan to share 120,000 refugees from Middle East, Africa and Asia among its members.

www.aljazeera.com

If Poland can do it, why can't oh so great and reasonable Russia? No one could be outraged about that. Not enough oil money? Not enough space? Certainly not.
But by Russian logic, we should have used their existence to conquer every single place there is a Polish minority that we think is not treated properly.

a) The land was also Russian.
b) it is right next door.
c) We are talking about millions, not a few hundred thousand.
d) You think it will be good optics if the Russians in Ukraine are yeeted to be replaced by NATO bases.

Again, your points are all the usual low quality rhetoric.

How would Ukrainians? Russia won't ask though.

But Moscow is Muscovite's home and no one was going to take it from them, not Odessa, not Donbass, and certainly not Crimea LMAO.

Odessa and Crimea were parts of Russia and populated by mostly people who are culturally Russian still, the country around them changed thanks to commies, krauts and the like, the people, not so much.

So the same as usual.

And a certain Pole that can't admit defeat and can't stop himself from spamming until he annoys or tires out his opponents is to blame.

 

[Marduk]

Potaito, potato..

As opposed to yours?

Chad yes.

Except that there isn't a latino or African-American dictator terrorizing the Wasps, yet.
And the UK is still the UK's bitch.

Apples and oranges.

Ah, so imperial reconstruction politics is just a matter of sufficient power and convenient excuse.
Got it.

Actually Crimean was Bulgarian before it was anyone else's.

Well, with a small bit being Greko-Byzantine.

Also Scythian, also it was even a Roman client state for longer than it belonged to Russia.

The less can be summed in "blah blah, yadda yadda, usual whataboutism from Marduk."

Yeah, sure, whatever Muscovite apologist.

Ah, usual bullshit talking points, but then again you have said unequivocally that you will support any form of bullshit as long as it is anti-Russia.

a) The land was also Russian.

Except when it wasn't.

b) it is right next door.

So will be Poland once Russia gets it Triune State.

c) We are talking about millions, not a few hundred thousand.

So are we now, and so were we after WW1 and after WW2. Shit happened, Russians don't get special protections from shit happening on account of their historical self-aggrandizement.

d) You think it will be good optics if the Russians in Ukraine are yeeted to be replaced by NATO bases.

Russia supposedly has more than enough land for both for all the military bases they need, all the Russians in the world, and then some.
In fact it has enough land to host many millions of Central Asian migrants of questionable cultural compatibility, somehow that is not so bad optics and Russia can handle those millions, complete even with some occasional "part and parcel of living in big city" that they do, but not few millions of ethnic Russian compatriots. Very interesting...

https://central.asia-news.com/en_GB/articles/cnmi_ca/features/2023/05/18/feature-01

What is it with ethnic Russians that apparently even Russia doesn't want them in own vast lands and would rather have even the likes of Muslim Tajiks and Uzbeks instead?
It's a mystery...

Again, your points are all the usual low quality rhetoric.

Said the expert in true low quality rhetoric.

Odessa and Crimea were parts of Russia and populated by mostly people who are culturally Russian still, the country around them changed thanks to commies, krauts and the like, the people, not so much.

They became populated by culturally Russian people less than 200 years ago, on account of practices of late Russian Empire and communists mostly.

Demographics of Crimea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The first time in history Crimea was majority Russian was under Stalin, less than 100 years ago, we have that info. Less than 200 years before, Russians were a tiny minority in Crimea.
By history Crimean Tatars have the best claim of all to it, being a solid majority there up until late XIX century Russian Empire's demographic engineering, and we all (hopefully) know how it, Stalin and his successors treated those and still do.

And a certain Pole that can't admit defeat and can't stop himself from spamming until he annoys or tires out his opponents is to blame.

I know damn well that Russians and their allies are indeed convinced it's Pole's role in the world to admit defeats. However i disagree with that vision and i'm not hiding that i want it turned on its head.
A certain Bulgarian Russia simp is to blame indeed.

 

[Agent23]

Man the writhing, mouth foaming and seizures comeng from some people when Russia crushes Ukraine are gonna be Soo hilarious.

 

[Zachowon]

Eh, if it happens.
I won't be mouth foaming. I will he getting gear ready and long days at work because war will be next for everyone in NATO.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Man the writhing, mouth foaming and seizures comeng from some people when Russia crushes Ukraine are gonna be Soo hilarious.

The Fall of Ukraine is the prelude to WW3.

 

[Marduk]

Man the writhing, mouth foaming and seizures comeng from some people when Russia crushes Ukraine are gonna be Soo hilarious.

If.

 

[AmosTrask]

Man the writhing, mouth foaming and seizures comeng from some people when Russia crushes Ukraine are gonna be Soo hilarious.

If. If Russia conquers Ukraine we're next fuckwit. You may be all for sucking Putin's dick. But I am quite used to the freedoms of a post Soviet economy. I'd sabotage my city's central oil heating network first