Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

[Zachowon]

Answer what?

I have no idea how many missile launchers Russia has in Kaliningrad.

But the idea that Russia cant shoot down Ukrainian planes is fucking LAUGHABLE considering Ukraine is literally begging for f-16s. So Ukraine can make very rare sorties? BFD. Even the luftwaffe could still make sorties at the end. The Russian missile defense net isnt everywhere. The fact is, Russia has shot Ukraines Airforce out of the sky, and several other former airforces that were donated to it. And once the f16s arrive, they will be shot down too.

And my statement stands. If NATO thought they could close the sky, they would try. But they cant. And they know it.

NATO could easily declare a no fly zone, they just don't want to get into an active fucking war with Russia....

I mean, Ukraine can still operate and AF is more then enough evidence that thier AD is not good enough.
As well as friendly fire incidents

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Luftwaffe had state of art planes for the time, including the first operational jet fighter in history.

Ukraine has a bunch of Cold War era Soviet planes with minimal modernization since then and decades of underfunded maintenance, yet they still are around after 2 years of the war, without any production. Of course they want something better than that.\

And? They play little role in the war and can only perform a tiny number of sorties, usually in areas where air defense is weak or at ranges beyond the air defense network. Meanwhile russia runs dozens of sorties a day now. Again, you suffer from DesertStormitis that assumes that unless you can emulate what the USA did to Iraq, you must be incompetent.

By that logic you soon will start to argue that if NATO could nuke Russia, it would, so it can't
The problem is that it would be kinda an act of war, like a naval blockade, and the western leadership doesn't have the guts for that.

NATO has never nuked anyone. But they do declare no fly zones on anyone they dont like.

 

[Zachowon]

And? They play little role in the war and can only perform a tiny number of sorties, usually in areas where air defense is weak or at ranges beyond the air defense network. Meanwhile russia runs dozens of sorties a day now. Again, you suffer from DesertStormitis that assumes that unless you can emulate what the USA did to Iraq, you must be incompetent.



NATO has never nuked anyone. But they do declare no fly zones on anyone they dont like.

They declared no fly zones in areas where there is co flict that isn't a peer nation....

Ukraine also runs dozens of sorties a day.
Dozens is tiny compared to what the US and Coaltition were running in both Serbia and Storm and Iraq.....

Remember, Yugoslavia wasn't some backwards military like that of Iraq and still only downed two US aircraft.
One of which was pure luck

 

[Marduk]

And? They play little role in the war and can only perform a tiny number of sorties, usually in areas where air defense is weak or at ranges beyond the air defense network.

What do you think performs all those HARM and Storm Shadow strikes that are on the news?
Flying saucers?

Meanwhile russia runs dozens of sorties a day now. Again, you suffer from DesertStormitis that assumes that unless you can emulate what the USA did to Iraq, you must be incompetent.

No, you suffer from not knowing what you are talking about if you think an air force the size of Russia's, with something like a thousand combat jets on the books, isn't shit if it struggles to generate more sorties than one freaking carrier.

NATO has never nuked anyone. But they do declare no fly zones on anyone they dont like.

So where's the no fly zone over Syria? North Korea? Iran? Your logic is just fucking ridiculous, to the point i wish it was true, because it's more fun kind of ridiculous than having cowardly leftists in charge.

 

[Bacle]

Well, that cannot be great for oligarchs who want to try to get their money out of Russia or do much international banking.

Hopefully more banks follow suit.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Well, that cannot be great for oligarchs who want to try to get their money out of Russia or do much international banking.

Hopefully more banks follow suit.

Kinda surprised is hasn't happened sooner.

 

[AmosTrask]

Kinda surprised is hasn't happened sooner.

Russia put a lot of legal hoops, right after invading Ukraine, in the way if they wanted to leave with any of their money back. Delay after delay, fines, fees, excessive number of forms and stamps needed.

Mercedes, Ikea and Burger King had to abandon everything. They lost all the money they invested to build their infrastructure in Russia. The Russian oligarchs stepped in and took over the plants stealing the trade secrets that couldn't be destroyed

 

[Buba]

Kinda surprised is hasn't happened sooner.

I'd guess that Russia was a huge market for that bank ...
Speaking of the posterboy for sleazo banks 'r' us - Goldmann-Sachs - are they still in Russia? Seems a match made in heaven ...

 

[strunkenwhite]

depends on how many ships you are willing to lose.

NATO submarines > Russian Baltic fleet

 

[AmosTrask]

NATO submarines > Russian Baltic fleet

The Baltic fleet visibly rusting in harbor? Only one in four of those ships can even move. They are so far behind in repairs and so lacking in qualified manpower a maintenance cycle that would take 6 months in a NATO shipyard takes them literal decades for anything larger than a minesweeper.

That isn't taking into consideration the number of antiship missile batteries they would have to sail through if they fucked with NATO. As whittled down as it is the British Royal Navy would win in a fight with the Russians any day. There's a reason real navies don't use conscripts.

 

[Bacle]

Girkin got 4 years for daring to criticize Putin, and actually had supporters who demonstrated at his sentencing hearing.

The more Russia has internal issues, the better.

 

[Buba]

The placard says "svobodu strelkovu", which, with my minimal grasp of Russian, could be "freedom for Strelkov" or "freedom for rifleman" or maybe "execution squad freedom". What people with better language skills than mine ssay?

 

[Marduk]

The placard says "svobodu strelkovu", which, with my minimal grasp of Russian, could be "freedom for Strelkov" or "freedom for rifleman" or maybe "execution squad freedom". What people with better language skills than mine ssay?

Strelkov is a pseudonym of the guy in question so the first one is right.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Strelkov is a pseudonym of the guy in question so the first one is right.

Yea, basically, "Free Strelkov."

 

[AnimalNoodles]

What do you think performs all those HARM and Storm Shadow strikes that are on the news?
Flying saucers?

No, you suffer from not knowing what you are talking about if you think an air force the size of Russia's, with something like a thousand combat jets on the books, isn't shit if it struggles to generate more sorties than one freaking carrier.

So where's the no fly zone over Syria? North Korea? Iran? Your logic is just fucking ridiculous, to the point i wish it was true, because it's more fun kind of ridiculous than having cowardly leftists in charge.

Russia is in Syria, and North Korea will actually fight back. Again, You will only declare no fly zones if you think you can win.

And are you sure you could enforce a blockade? Are you sure your ships are up the challenge? Are you sure your defenses are up to scratch? The USS Gravely, an arleigh burke cruiser was unable to shoot down all 3 fairly simple ballistic rockets thrown at two american ships trying to run the blockade, and they were forced to turn back. 2 were shot down, a third got through. to all intents and purposes, you lost the battle.

You havent been able to suppress the rocket launchers of a nation of goat herders despite total air superiority, nor knock out their simple ballistic rockets.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

You havent been able to suppress the rocket launchers of a nation of goat herders despite total air superiority, nor knock out their simple ballistic rockets.

That's b/c we're NOT trying to. What the US and allies are doing is simply 1st hand strikes of sites preparing to launch, and some of the manufacturing sites.
The Biden admin is trying to keep this as small as possible right now.

 

[Marduk]

Russia is in Syria, and North Korea will actually fight back. Again, You will only declare no fly zones if you think you can win.

Israel does airstrikes in Syria regularly and Russia does jack shit about it.
North Korea would win against USAF? Yeah, right...

And are you sure you could enforce a blockade? Are you sure your ships are up the challenge? Are you sure your defenses are up to scratch? The USS Gravely, an arleigh burke cruiser was unable to shoot down all 3 fairly simple ballistic rockets thrown at two american ships trying to run the blockade, and they were forced to turn back. 2 were shot down, a third got through. to all intents and purposes, you lost the battle.

Political will is the only issue. The means, NATO wide, are sufficient several times over. The "SAMs are less than 100% effective in shooting down ballistic missiles so you lost" argument looks pitiful to anyone who has an idea about these things, which clearly does not include you.

You havent been able to suppress the rocket launchers of a nation of goat herders despite total air superiority, nor knock out their simple ballistic rockets.

Unwilling, not unable. There's a difference between these two.
If the western leadership was willing to proverbially turn the Houthi part of Yemen into a desert and call it peace, it would be a non-issue, as the means would absolutely be there.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Israel does airstrikes in Syria regularly and Russia does jack shit about it.
North Korea would win against USAF? Yeah, right...

Political will is the only issue. The means, NATO wide, are sufficient several times over. The "SAMs are less than 100% effective in shooting down ballistic missiles so you lost" argument looks pitiful to anyone who has an idea about these things, which clearly does not include you.

Unwilling, not unable. There's a difference between these two.
If the western leadership was willing to proverbially turn the Houthi part of Yemen into a desert and call it peace, it would be a non-issue, as the means would absolutely be there.

I have been reliably informed of the fact many many times that mere presence of a small number of Ukrainian aircraft means russian air defenses must be terrible.

 

[Marduk]

I have been reliably informed of the fact many many times that mere presence of a small number of Ukrainian aircraft means russian air defenses must be terrible.

Continued existence of them after 2 years of open, full scale conventional war, yes, that says things about these air defenses.
Your childishly manipulative attempt to equate western unwillingness to start a war with Russia to that is noted and called out.
I'd also like to note that 80's era aircraft tend to be easier to shoot down than ballistic missiles anyway.

 

[LordsFire]

I have been reliably informed of the fact many many times that mere presence of a small number of Ukrainian aircraft means russian air defenses must be terrible.

Are you seriously comparing Russia's failure to shoot down a small airforce during a full court press vs Ukraine, to the US/NATO not blowing up every hole in the ground a missile or drone might be hidden in in Yemen while politically half-assing it?

I'm having a hard time coming up with words for how hard you're trying to reach here.

You're trying to get a jar off the top shelf when you're a dwarf.

You're trying to hand-pass a message across the Grand Canyon.

You're trying to swat a fly on the bloody moon.


Making arguments like this demonstrates that you are both desperate for anything to support your position, and also that you're so ignorant of how these things compare, that you don't realize that just making it actually makes your position look worse than if you'd said nothing at all.