Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[mrttao]

I disagree.

With the exception of Russia, every European country that was ever Communist is now less Communist that every Western country that never was Communist. Poland e.g. has had experience with Communism that it doesn't want to repeat.

I think you misunderstood my argument, fundamentally.
I did not argue that a communist country is forever infected with communism.

I argued that every communist country genocides their good people.
their truly kind people, their altruists.
Which irreversibly damages their population.
Both culturally and genetically

In the past hundred years, genetic predisposition towards altruism has been genocided out of a large segment of humanity
And I also argued that communism is not the only evil group to do so.
The new world order / woke cult are also doing so. but in a slower manner than the commie "line up against the wall".

Post communist countries being violently anti communist today?
That does not in any way shape or form mean they have meaningful quantities of altruists in them.

You can see this in the endemic political corruption.
How many countries are not being raped by their oligarchs?
It requires a critical mass of righteous people to do so.

Bringing back religion is helping a bit... it is at least works on the cultural aspect.
But isn't solving the loss of genetic predisposition towards altruism.

 

[King Arts]

I think you misunderstood my argument, fundamentally.
I did not argue that a communist country is forever infected with communism.

I argued that every communist country genocides their good people.
their truly kind people, their altruists.
Which irreversibly damages their population.
Both culturally and genetically

In the past hundred years, genetic predisposition towards altruism has been genocided out of a large segment of humanity
And I also argued that communism is not the only evil group to do so.
The new world order / woke cult are also doing so. but in a slower manner than the commie "line up against the wall".

Post communist countries being violently anti communist today?
That does not in any way shape or form mean they have meaningful quantities of altruists in them.

You can see this in the endemic political corruption.
How many countries are not being raped by their oligarchs?
It requires a critical mass of righteous people to do so.

Bringing back religion is helping a bit... it is at least works on the cultural aspect.
But isn't solving the loss of genetic predisposition towards altruism.

Yeah sorry I think this is nonsense.

 

[mrttao]

Yeah sorry I think this is nonsense.

I expect most will disagree.
Most people are religious. Either worshipping a real religion, or worshipping the state via woke cult/communism.

For the traditional religions what I said conflicts with their belief in souls.
For the woke cultists or communist cultists... it fundamentally opposes what they are actively doing.

Either way I am holding a very fringe view. It might be correct, but it ain't popular.

 

[Aldarion]

I think you misunderstood my argument, fundamentally.
I did not argue that a communist country is forever infected with communism.

I argued that every communist country genocides their good people.
their truly kind people, their altruists.
Which irreversibly damages their population.
Both culturally and genetically

In the past hundred years, genetic predisposition towards altruism has been genocided out of a large segment of humanity
And I also argued that communism is not the only evil group to do so.
The new world order / woke cult are also doing so. but in a slower manner than the commie "line up against the wall".

Post communist countries being violently anti communist today?
That does not in any way shape or form mean they have meaningful quantities of altruists in them.

You can see this in the endemic political corruption.
How many countries are not being raped by their oligarchs?
It requires a critical mass of righteous people to do so.

Bringing back religion is helping a bit... it is at least works on the cultural aspect.
But isn't solving the loss of genetic predisposition towards altruism.

That may be partly correct, but it has few issues.

First, genetic predisposition is only an element of anything. Yes, it matters, but so does culture, education, food and so on.

Second, altruism can easily be turned towards evil. That is literally what Communism but especially progressivism do. They take altruism and then somehow twist it into something easily as evil as Nazism.

 

[Cherico]

It's a sad day in a strange world when I feel the need to agree with and amplify anything coming from one of the few people I truly despise, but here we are. I guess if even trump can do two or three things right, it shouldn't surprise me that Agent23 can manage one.

They say you can judge a man by his enemies...

I consider this a firm endorsement of the man.

That may be partly correct, but it has few issues.

First, genetic predisposition is only an element of anything. Yes, it matters, but so does culture, education, food and so on.

Second, altruism can easily be turned towards evil. That is literally what Communism but especially progressivism do. They take altruism and then somehow twist it into something easily as evil as Nazism.

Going to disagree hard, I've known communists I know socialists I worked in academia I know these people their not motivated by altrusim their motivated by envy.

Seriously, I used to serve food to these people and no one was ruder or treated the help worse then socialists.

 

[AmosTrask]

Good.Becouse Trump COULD sell us to Moscov,when Biden WOULD gave us to Moscov for free,like all good democrats before him.
And reducing what exactly? Except Himars,drones and now 30 Abrams and 98 Bradleys,USA send there only old stuff would they need to scrap anyway.

If Trump send another 30 Abrams but not old stuff,it would change little.

As in reducing to no support, beyond verbal encouragement. He has promised to pull out of "Europe's Problems." We're in Europe amigo!

I'd rather deal with a leader who acted to stop Russia over a man who partied with Putin. Who probably has the same madam as Putin when in Russia. Has hundreds of millions of his personal wealth at risk in Russia if he pushes the Russians too hard. One who is currently threatening the judge's family by proxy. Anyone stupid enough to threaten the presiding judge of their own trial should be expedited to summary execution.

 

[Aldarion]

Going to disagree hard, I've known communists I know socialists I worked in academia I know these people their not motivated by altrusim their motivated by envy.

Seriously, I used to serve food to these people and no one was ruder or treated the help worse then socialists.

I wasn't talking about them. I was talking about how they use altruism of other people to push their own agenda.

 

[Megadeath]

They say you can judge a man by his enemies...

I consider this a firm endorsement of the man.

Good for you. You can better judge people by their own deeds and words, and Agent23 has straight up and unequivocally cheered for baby murder. But if me disliking him matters more to you, your messed up perspective and priorities are your own and I couldn't care less what you think.

 

[mrttao]

That may be partly correct, but it has few issues.

First, genetic predisposition is only an element of anything. Yes, it matters, but so does culture, education, food and so on.

Second, altruism can easily be turned towards evil. That is literally what Communism but especially progressivism do. They take altruism and then somehow twist it into something easily as evil as Nazism.

True on both counts.
I was careful to phrase it as genetic predisposition instead of "the capacity to be altruistic" exactly because that is all it is.

And yea, it is shocking how the greatest evils in human history all stem from excessive altruism of gullible people being weaponized

 

[King Arts]

I expect most will disagree.
Most people are religious. Either worshipping a real religion, or worshipping the state via woke cult/communism.

For the traditional religions what I said conflicts with their belief in souls.
For the woke cultists or communist cultists... it fundamentally opposes what they are actively doing.

Either way I am holding a very fringe view. It might be correct, but it ain't popular.

You are right that I disagree with you because I believe in the soul and free will. But even from a materialistic evolutionary perspective you would be wrong.
First problem while selective breeding of humans is theoretical possibility. In practice it’s actually impossible let’s look at dogs they are perfect for selection breeding because one human can observe multiple generations and then guide it and do the selection.
The reason it can’t be done to humans is humans live too long, you’d need a god or AI or something above humanity that could live at least 1000 years to direct the breeding because a human in another generation could abandon whatever program the creator started.
Next problem the USSR did not last long enough to be able to build a breeding program again USSR did not exceed even 100 years, and there was no over being directed the evolution.

The other thing you need to look at is that most inbreeding that was done historically did not create exceptional people the reason for this is because when the nobility was marrying they were not trying to eliminate or create traits their goal was social/legal they thought they were better than the commoners and they were marrying to keep titles and wealth in the family. So even inferior traits were preserved because it was based of legal systems at that time.

Next problem is corruption lets look at American slavery this was late in history they had more knowledge of heritable traits and they also had a group that was thought to be inferior. While it’s possible to make a super race you can also make an inferior one. Slave owners if they had enough time should be able to make a race that is strong, dumb, yet also obiedient. Yet they did not? In fact there were many black genius’s, maybe it didn’t last long enough, but two problems. The first is social the slavers are trying to make money not create something new so they won’t want to make less slaves. The second issue is corruption, the slavers frequently raped their own slaves they corrupted the pure gene line of their slaves with their own seed.

The final issue is that materialisticly there is no such thing as evil. Traits are either maladaptive or adaptive. Individualism is not better than collectivism. It depends on the environment hell you can point to individualism as a cause for many bad habits like trannies.

Good for you. You can better judge people by their own deeds and words, and Agent23 has straight up and unequivocally cheered for baby murder. But if me disliking him matters more to you, your messed up perspective and priorities are your own and I couldn't care less what you think.

I think cherico is talking about Trump.

 

[mrttao]

You are right that I disagree with you because I believe in the soul and free will. But even from a materialistic evolutionary perspective you would be wrong.
First problem while selective breeding of humans is theoretical possibility. In practice it’s actually impossible let’s look at dogs they are perfect for selection breeding because one human can observe multiple generations and then guide it and do the selection.
The reason it can’t be done to humans is humans live too long, you’d need a god or AI or something above humanity that could live at least 1000 years to direct the breeding because a human in another generation could abandon whatever program the creator started.
Next problem the USSR did not last long enough to be able to build a breeding program again USSR did not exceed even 100 years, and there was no over being directed the evolution.

I didn't say selective breeding. I said genocide.
Setting up a eugenics program to propagate specific traits is completely different than just shooting everyone that has trait X.

The other thing you need to look at is that most inbreeding that was done historically did not create exceptional people the reason for this is because when the nobility was marrying they were not trying to eliminate or create traits their goal was social/legal they thought they were better than the commoners and they were marrying to keep titles and wealth in the family. So even inferior traits were preserved because it was based of legal systems at that time.

what the fuck does inbreeding have to do with me saying that most human countries genocided altruists in the past 100 years?

Next problem is corruption lets look at American slavery this was late in history they had more knowledge of heritable traits and they also had a group that was thought to be inferior. While it's possible to make a super race you can also make an inferior one.

It is vastly easier to destroy than to create.
The ruling class of most countries are trying their hardest to create inferior humans. so that they don't rebel against them

The final issue is that materialisticly there is no such thing as evil.

1. you literally said you believe in god.
2. I literally said "genetic predisposition towards altruism"
3. I literally admitted that altruism can itself be bad if channeled incorrectly

Overall from your post it is clear you are not arguing against me. You are just quoting random "anti eugenics" arguments at me that have literally nothing to do with anything I said.

I was not advocating eugenics.
Eugenics is a disaster because you have retarded politicians decide what is superior and what is inferior.

 

[Megadeath]

I think cherico is talking about Trump.

You could be right. That would be a dumber stance to my mind, not least because it can equally easily be applied to Agent23.

 

[King Arts]

I didn't say selective breeding. I said genocide.
Setting up a eugenics program to propagate specific traits is completely different than just shooting everyone that has trait X.

Genes don’t work like that like they can skip generations. If I kill everyone who is not a pedo or rapist or thief. That doesn’t mean that the children of those people will be pedos or rapists or theifs. There is no thief gene.
Everyone is currently a mixed mutt you have ancestors that were rapists and thieves we all do.

what the fuck does inbreeding have to do with me saying that most human countries genocided altruists in the past 100 years?

Selective breeding requires a degree of inbreeding. I thought you would pull out the monarchist playbook about how nobility were bred to rule or something.

It is vastly easier to destroy than to create.
The ruling class of most countries are trying their hardest to create inferior humans. so that they don't rebel against them

Again genes don’t work that way. Also the Soviets did not wipe out most of their people. Yes millions died but what percentage is that the only nation that got close to like 50 percent was Cambodia.

1. you literally said you believe in god.
2. I literally said "genetic predisposition towards altruism"
3. I literally admitted that altruism can itself be bad if channeled incorrectly

Overall from your post it is clear you are not arguing against me. You are just quoting random "anti eugenics" arguments at me that have literally nothing to do with anything I said.

I was not advocating eugenics.
Eugenics is a disaster because you have retarded politicians decide what is superior and what is inferior.

1 I’m arguing from a materialistic perspective I personally believe in good and evil but evolution doesn’t.
2 I thought you said that the Soviets genocided everyone who had a genetic predisposition to be good and everyone else was predisposed to evil? What did you actually say?
3 yes like I said above traits being good or bad depends on the environment. That’s why the Nazis were stupid when they used their reference to the natural world by saying foxes were superior to rabbits.

 

[mrttao]

Genes don’t work like that

Yes they do.

like they can skip generations.

I am well aware of the existence of recessive genes.
IF the genes in question happen to be recessive. Then killing everyone that expresses the phenotype will not completely eliminate the genes in question in a single generation. But it will drastically reduce the prevalence in the population. And every additional generation that such extermination continues will continue to reduce them. Although it won't get completely exterminated.

Selective breeding requires a degree of inbreeding.

1. Again, I said nothing about selective breeding. you are the one who keeps on saying that and eugenics. I said genocide.
2. Not necessarily
3. we are literally talking about "most of humanity". at this scale of implementation it doesn't require.

Again genes don't work that way.

yes, they do. you clearly know nothing about genetics.
IQ levels dropping in almost every country over the years

 

[mrttao]

1 I’m arguing from a materialistic perspective I personally believe in good and evil but evolution doesn’t.

... so just so we get it straight.
I believe in evil & you believe in evil...

but because I also believe in genetics too, you are argue that I SHOULD believe that evil is not real?

And thus you are explicitly making arguments that evil is not real... despite the fact that both me and you think it is real?

 

[hyperspacewizard]

Altruism isn’t a synonym for good it’s the selfless concern for others which could be good but could also lead to overbearing mothers and people in power thinking they know better than you but it’s also helping a stranger with a heavy object or picking up random pieces of trash. So yes there is definitely a materialist argument for altruism.

 

[mrttao]

Altruism isn’t a synonym for good

Yes, we literally all agree about it and have said so. People keep on thinking someone else might disagree with it, but turns out that no, everyone here agrees on this.

I believe evil is real, I believe good is real.
However I also recognize that altruism and good are different things even if there is some overlap.

 

[hyperspacewizard]

Yes, we literally all agree about it and have said so. People keep on thinking someone else might disagree with it, but turns out that no, everyone here agrees on this.

I believe evil is real, I believe good is real.
However I also recognize that altruism and good are different things even if there is some overlap.

I was more speaking to this “2 I thought you said that the Soviets genocided everyone who had a genetic predisposition to be good and everyone else was predisposed to evil? What did you actually say?” by king art I thought to maybe clear up the confusion he seemed to think when you said altruism you meant good maybe I messed up but that’s what I got out of it

 

[mrttao]

I was more speaking to this “2 I thought you said that the Soviets genocided everyone who had a genetic predisposition to be good and everyone else was predisposed to evil? What did you actually say?” by king art I thought to maybe clear up the confusion he seemed to think when you said altruism you meant good maybe I messed up but that’s what I got out of it

Oh, I see now. thanks for clarifying.
I actually mentioned seperate groups.
Looking back at the original post, I said communists genocide: good people, kind people, and altruists.
3 different yet somewhat related groups.

they also genocide many many many other groups too. communists love genocide. its their favorite activity.

It is possible I at some point mixed things up though. Staying up late posting things in the middle of the night makes you prone to types.

 

[King Arts]

Yes they do.

No they don’t again the time scales that it operates on would be immense a nation that did not last 100 years can’t breed anything out. Almost everyone has genes that lead to altruism, and genes that lead to bad or selfishness. Killing off half the population won’t eliminate that, you need selective breeding to kill off those with the traits you don’t like and make those you do like breed.

I am well aware of the existence of recessive genes.
IF the genes in question happen to be recessive. Then killing everyone that expresses the phenotype will not completely eliminate the genes in question in a single generation. But it will drastically reduce the prevalence in the population. And every additional generation that such extermination continues will continue to reduce them. Although it won't get completely exterminated.

Again look above the time scales to do that would be immense, the Soviets did not have multiple generations to do that they did not have the resources to monitor and decide who should be prevented from breeding and who should not.

1. Again, I said nothing about selective breeding. you are the one who keeps on saying that and eugenics. I said genocide.
2. Not necessarily
3. we are literally talking about "most of humanity". at this scale of implementation it doesn't require.

The only way a genocide can remove traits in a population is with selective breeding. You have a woman pop out kids then you see which kids have traits you hate you prevent those kids from breeding and the kids whose bad traits are not as bad as their purged siblings you let them breed. Repeat again and again. Eventually those traits are gone and you’ve selected new traits. Just killing half the kids like a retard does nothing.

yes, they do. you clearly know nothing about genetics.
IQ levels dropping in almost every country over the years

Ok now I know you know nothing about genetics in levels are actually rising look up the Flynn effect. Which goes to show that iq measurements aren’t really useful.

... so just so we get it straight.
I believe in evil & you believe in evil...

Yes, I don’t believe there is some evil gene though like you seem to think. Science shows there isn’t anything like that. For me evil is a metaphysical choice to reject and rebel against gods will. Though one can argue that evil like darkneydies not exist and is just the absence of good I disagree but some have said that.

but because I also believe in genetics too, you are argue that I SHOULD believe that evil is not real?

I believe in genetics.

And yes you should believe evil doesn’t exist