Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

You do know that was in context to what would happen in the event Ukraine fell, and then Russia was then moving on NATO, right?

I'm talking about the rebuttal by the guy, saying he'd start an insurgency rather than see his kids sent to die for this bullshit.

Yeah.
If Ukraine fell Poland would be basically in a war stance ready for that invasion.
That is why we supply Ukraine so we don't have to send our sons to war.

We aren't sending our sons into a nuclear meat grinder so the IC can keep itself in power.

 

[Agent23]

Stop playing an idiot, you know i meant your lack of correction for improper age groups saying no.


Your talent at dodging information inconvenient to the narrative you are trying to push by any means necessary, be it joke, laziness or pretending idiocy is touching, but won't get you anywhere.
You can assume that every old geezer gave a joke answer, but that's something else you're just making up and no one has any reason to not look upon it with disdain.

A poll measures the answers to the specific question asked among the sample group, not what you wish it measured. If the poll asks "would you fight if your country was invaded", it will get certain answers, and if the poll asks "would you fight if your country was invaded, if you're sick and/or old answer as if you were 30 year old and healthy" or "would you be willing to fight if your country was invaded, even if your current health doesn't allow you to" will give you a different set of answers. Absolutely nothing indicates that either your or my poll asked the latter variant of the question FYI.
The wiki article puts military fitness as ending at 49, while Polish draft law makes it 55 for non-officers/NCOs, but that's statistically minimal numbers.

So, assuming not much change since 2012, there's your answer:

Demografia Polski – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia

pl.wikipedia.org

Depending on which cut-off you take, it's 25% or 32% disqualified by old age.
The amount of disabled in qualified age group will not be that high and detailed data by age is hard to get, so lets not bother, because we already know enough.


Registers, not necessarily drafts. The common practice is that the military may take some particularly skilled or experienced people around that age, like, say, military surgeons or officers, but a 55 year old grunt probably won't get called up anyway even if he doesn't have a suitcase of medical problem documentation which at that age quite some will have.

Also reminder that Poland is not Ukraine, and something similar to the above is official policy in Poland - draft ends at 55 for the enlisted, but 63 for NCOs and officers with highly needed skills.

So, as i said, we know enough. Only 68% or so are not too old or sick, so outside of some jokers there's the absolute maximum for the yes section. Take away 90% or so of women, you're left with about 37% of population. According to your very general poll, 21% said yes, 21%/37% gives us about 56% of the relevant people.
The better poll i've found which breaks down specific questions and age groups gives an even better answer.

17% said "they are willing to fight in frontline combat" and another 49% of total population would be willing to help defend the country but not in frontline combat (so both military support roles or industrial/medical support), for a total of 66% being willing to help defend the country in some way or another.
So, you have a great demonstration how asking slightly different questions and breaking them down can make a poll give a totally different impression, aka basic statistical wizardry.
The closeness of 17% and 21% in different polls may in fact point at the worse poll getting confused answers due to the question being formed more generally, so people guessed what exactly was meant by the question and answered accordingly, spoiling the whole result.

Not according to my link, and yours has no breakdown, so it may well be a total of leftists and women who are raising children, which would kinda add up and make perfect sense too.

Opinion discarded due to opinion's owner being full of shit.

At least they admit what questions they asked specifically and who answered how unlike in yours, where you fill in the blanks with convenient bullshit you made up in your head. I'll trust the biggest neocons over your bullshit lol.

Translation from Mardukski:
> Blah, blah, blah, using a sample representative of all of the population must be wrong because it does not say what I want it to say and goes against the biased Heritage/WSJ neocon poll I fevor.

Keep trying, you ain't fooling no one, if you are so bellicose then why aren't you fighting against the damned Muskovites in Donbass, again?

After all you are the one pushing some silly Polish variation of the domino theory whereby the undermanned and under-equipped and totally incompetent Russian army is going to overrun Poland and all of Yurup.

 

[Agent23]

Yeah.
If Ukraine fell Poland would be basically in a war stance ready for that invasion.
That is why we supply Ukraine so we don't have to send our sons to war.

>Breaks promises, does multiple regime change operations and sabotages the bilateral relations of several sovereign countries and starts color revolutions and ethnic cleansing.
>Claims it is to protect themselves.

Sure, sure.

No one is invading Poland, and since when are you Polish again?

 

[Agent23]

By now it should be pretty obvious that polls are rife with propaganda. They are super easy to manipulate.

We got two alleged polls from poland. one showing 66% and one showing 20%.
Either one or most likely both are manipulated by whomever made the poll.

The funniest part is where some people are so absolutely certain that their preferred poll is accurate but the ones they dislike are "shills".

I would take both polls with a bucket a salt

Yeah, the fact that Marduk's stuff is from a random neocon central affiliate makes it a lot more suspicious.
Also, it is Marduk, we all know what notorious cherry picker, flip-flopper and whataboutist he is.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

The solution to the Ukrainian problem is to abandon it and withdraw from NATO.

Oh and shut down the pentagon, eject the service branches from a central location, dissolve the CIA and fire 60% of employees at the state department.

Then laugh our asses off as the world goes to hell without our blood and treasure propping up this evil, unnatural, frankly antihuman global order.

No more GAE, bring back America the beautiful, the empire of grain, steel and commerce. Not this shithole run by traitors who subordinate us to a bunch of usorious baby boomers in Davos and demons in Beijing.

Down with the urbanites, down with globalism, reject the great IC psyop that was the cold war and expel all globalists and progressives from society! Avante Columbia! Avante! 🤣🤣🤣

 

[Batrix2070]

The solution to the Ukrainian problem is to abandon it and withdraw from NATO.

Oh and shut down the pentagon, eject the service branches from a central location, dissolve the CIA and fire 60% of employees at the state department.

Then laugh our asses off as the world goes to hell without our blood and treasure propping up this evil, unnatural, frankly antihuman global order.

No more GAE, bring back America the beautiful, the empire of grain, steel and commerce. Not this shithole run by traitors who subordinate us to a bunch of usorious baby boomers in Davos and demons in Beijing.

Down with the urbanites, down with globalism, reject the great IC psyop that was the cold war and expel all globalists and progressives from society! Avante Columbia! Avante! 🤣🤣🤣

And then come your enemies, who are incredibly grateful for your stupidity because you've just given them the world to play with, and get rid of America in case she's willing to mess with their world again.

Congratulations, you have unlocked a very bad ending, the death of America trapped in isolation.

I hope you won't complain about foreign troops occupying America. Because that's what letting go leads to, other forces will take over the inheritance from you. The world will not burn forever, and whoever comes out victorious will try to destroy USA for treason/foolishness. They America will not need, and by controlling Eurasia will be much more powerful than America.

 

[Captain X]

Sorry, but the moon landing was in fact done in metric units, because that's what NASA and scientists use.

If that were the case, they wouldn't have lost that one Mars probe.

Incidentally, I did my engineering stuff in both pretty comfortably.

 

[Cherico]

And then come your enemies, who are incredibly grateful for your stupidity because you've just given them the world to play with, and get rid of America in case she's willing to mess with their world again.

Congratulations, you have unlocked a very bad ending, the death of America trapped in isolation.

I hope you won't complain about foreign troops occupying America. Because that's what letting go leads to, other forces will take over the inheritance from you. The world will not burn forever, and whoever comes out victorious will try to destroy USA for treason/foolishness. They America will not need, and by controlling Eurasia will be much more powerful than America.

Lets get into geography.

We have two gigantic moats beween us and the old world, northern mexico is a fucking desert, Canada has a tenth of the population and most of said population lives close to the boarder and their provinces trade more with the US then each other. We also have the largest navy on earth, one of the largest nuclear weapon stockpiles on earth. Are the third most populus country in the world.

We are also currently undergoing massive reindustrialization as people pull closer to their markets.

Meanwhile Russia's military is more or less getting slaughtered in ukraine, their educational system more or less crumbled 30 years ago and they have an economy the size of Italys and is the second fastest aging population in the world. The regions of russia that have growth?

Their ethnic groups that have successionist movements, the Ukraine is their last shot at being a big shot.

China's economy is enron on steriods and they pissed off a lot of their neighbors with their wolf warrior diplomacy and now so much power has been centralized into a singular person that its causing the system to seize up.


There may come a time when america will be invaded, but considering how fucked everyone else is its not going to be this century.

 

[AmosTrask]

I recall having read some time ago that in the modern day, the ratio of 'support' to 'frontline fighters' is about 10:1.

I don't remember where the number came from, but even if it's 3:1 instead of 10:1, 17% of your population being willing to be on the front lines is more than enough.

That's US military. It varies with the country. Usually ranges from 5:1 to 10:1 depending on tech and budgets. Or if you're part of the worse shithole militaries you are your own Support and Procurement. Everyone is a fighter and has to supply themselves.

 

[Batrix2070]

Lets get into geography.

We have two gigantic moats beween us and the old world, northern mexico is a fucking desert, Canada has a tenth of the population and most of said population lives close to the boarder and their provinces trade more with the US then each other. We also have the largest navy on earth, one of the largest nuclear weapon stockpiles on earth. Are the third most populus country in the world.

We are also currently undergoing massive reindustrialization as people pull closer to their markets.

Meanwhile Russia's military is more or less getting slaughtered in ukraine, their educational system more or less crumbled 30 years ago and they have an economy the size of Italys and is the second fastest aging population in the world. The regions of russia that have growth?

Their ethnic groups that have successionist movements, the Ukraine is their last shot at being a big shot.

China's economy is enron on steriods and they pissed off a lot of their neighbors with their wolf warrior diplomacy and now so much power has been centralized into a singular person that its causing the system to seize up.


There may come a time when america will be invaded, but considering how fucked everyone else is its not going to be this century.

Look to tomorrow, not today. Just because there are problems today doesn't mean they will continue throughout the century.

Another thing is that this force that will invade the U.S. is not necessarily China or Russia. It could be another contender that emerged victorious from the chaos that would follow this sudden turn to isolation.

Another thing, an America plunged into Isolationism will not have the military power it has today, because it is simply unnecessary. Why do you need so many fleets and so many aircraft carriers if you're going to stay out of everything anyway? . Why do you need so many soldiers and pilots if you will only be stationed in the country.

There will be no justification for the current size of the Armed Forces, then they will obviously be greatly reduced and thus America's ability to defend itself will be greatly crippled compared to today. Then you will find that you do not need a huge force to strike and occupy America. It is enough to overcome this huge moat, it is problematic but not impossible. It's just that no one has done it yet.

Geography is a challenge to overcome, not an obstacle that cannot be passed.

So it's rather, heavily wishful thinking that nothing can threaten America in this century as America will let go of the world.

 

[Cherico]

Look to tomorrow, not today. Just because there are problems today doesn't mean they will continue throughout the century.

Another thing is that this force that will invade the U.S. is not necessarily China or Russia. It could be another contender that emerged victorious from the chaos that would follow this sudden turn to isolation.

Another thing, an America plunged into Isolationism will not have the military power it has today, because it is simply unnecessary. Why do you need so many fleets and so many aircraft carriers if you're going to stay out of everything anyway? . Why do you need so many soldiers and pilots if you will only be stationed in the country.

There will be no justification for the current size of the Armed Forces, then they will obviously be greatly reduced and thus America's ability to defend itself will be greatly crippled compared to today. Then you will find that you do not need a huge force to strike and occupy America. It is enough to overcome this huge moat, it is problematic but not impossible. It's just that no one has done it yet.

Geography is a challenge to overcome, not an obstacle that cannot be passed.

So it's rather, heavily wishful thinking that nothing can threaten America in this century as America will let go of the world.

nuclear weapons are still a thing, and we have one of the largest stockpiles in the world.

 

[Batrix2070]

nuclear weapons are still a thing, and we have one of the largest stockpiles in the world.

The other side will also have them. And if the Americans are stupid enough to use them, they will be happy to respond.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

And then come your enemies, who are incredibly grateful for your stupidity because you've just given them the world to play with, and get rid of America in case she's willing to mess with their world again.

Congratulations, you have unlocked a very bad ending, the death of America trapped in isolation.

I hope you won't complain about foreign troops occupying America. Because that's what letting go leads to, other forces will take over the inheritance from you. The world will not burn forever, and whoever comes out victorious will try to destroy USA for treason/foolishness. They America will not need, and by controlling Eurasia will be much more powerful than America.

Least realistic alt history timeline ever.

Also there's no treason, we owe the rest of the world nothing. We've been destroying ourselves to enrich those leeches for three quarters of a century.

And what has it given us?

Cultural and national suicide.

nuclear weapons are still a thing, and we have one of the largest stockpiles in the world.

I love this hypothetical that is predicated on a world mortally dependant on our welfare, not experiencing starvation and collapse on a hereto unprecedented scale because we've decided we aren't going to sacrifice ourselves to maintain a quality of life they didn't earn and don't deserve at the expense of our children and their future.

Like half of China will die within the first decade, most of Europe will collapse, Russia will fall, India will rise and maybe Japan. Africa? Central Asia? That's where our future conquerors will come from?

Whatever, guess the world could benefit from the Nipon Kaigi and the BJP going apeshit on everyone for awhile.

 

[Marduk]

Translation from Mardukski:
> Blah, blah, blah, using a sample representative of all of the population must be wrong because it does not say what I want it to say and goes against the biased Heritage/WSJ neocon poll I fevor.

Yeah, go back to plain trolling scummy vatnik because you got owned in your crude attempts at statistical wizardry for propaganda purposes.

Keep trying, you ain't fooling no one, if you are so bellicose then why aren't you fighting against the damned Muskovites in Donbass, again?

Why aren't you fighting for Russian Empire reborn, instead of shilling it on this board, again?

After all you are the one pushing some silly Polish variation of the domino theory whereby the undermanned and under-equipped and totally incompetent Russian army is going to overrun Poland and all of Yurup.

So fucking what? Why are you coming here again and again trying to push some sort of Russia favoring propaganda story poorly, and then shift the discussion back to troll quips once you lose?

 

[AmosTrask]

We've been destroying ourselves to enrich those leeches for three quarters of a century.

And what has it given us?

Cultural and national suicide.

Revisionist history at play there. You've been enriching yourselves off of us amigo. Not the other way around.

What are you injecting into your veins? Try Valium instead or PCP if you must do hard narcotics, you're a little too high strung.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

"Everyone who correctly points out that both The Ukraine and Russia are shitholes run by lunatics and this war is a psyop by the US IC and Mil industrial complex to enrich themselves at the expense of America is a Russian propagandist."

Of course.

Revisionist history at play there. You've been enriching yourselves off of us amigo. Not the other way around.

Nah, there was like ten years of us hot shotting the economy off world War 2 but then the 1960s rolled along and we killed 2 million Asians so French drug dealers, Scottish bankers and Pharma companies could continue to get rich off cheap heroine and that was the beginning of the end.

 

[Marduk]

"Everyone who correctly points out that both The Ukraine and Russia are shitholes run by lunatics and this war is a psyop by the US IC and Mil industrial complex to enrich themselves at the expense of America is a Russian propagandist."

Of course.

Alternatively, a useful idiot. For some people every war anywhere is a "a psyop by the US IC and Mil industrial complex to enrich themselves at the expense of America" automatically the moment US politicians look at it. It's traditional that leftists do exactly that since the Cold War to the point of memery, it's ridiculous that now supposed right wingers do it too. Don't steal homework from the hippies, they are fucking idiots.

 

[AmosTrask]

"Everyone who correctly points out that both The Ukraine and Russia are shitholes run by lunatics and this war is a psyop by the US IC and Mil industrial complex to enrich themselves at the expense of America is a Russian propagandist."

Of course.



Nah, there was like ten years of us hot shotting the economy off world War 2 but then the 1960s rolled along and we killed 2 million Asians so French drug dealers, Scottish bankers and Pharma companies could continue to get rich off cheap heroine and that was the beginning of the end.

Again. Lay off the hard drugs for a few days. You're getting into a random incoherent narrative reminiscent of a cross between the deranged rants characterized by the online personas of Alex Jones and Westboro Baptist Church. I know it may be fun to roleplay an alternate personality but reading your post gives the impression that you're as unhinged as Xi at his worst.

The foolishness in Mein Kampf and Xi Jinping Thought are worse mind you, but you're sailing full steam in the direction. Gods the latter reads as thought there are six different writers each with their own styles. At least Hitlers book was easier to understand. You're only dealing with one lunatic writer. Xi's book has parts that contradicts itself. The English translation is heavily polished as though written by a native English writer with actual education. Still madness though. He's just rehashing Mao and other founding leaders of the CCP and claiming the credit.

I wonder how much they pay writers to turn a work of madness into a saleable work in the west?

 

[Agent23]

Yeah, go back to plain trolling scummy vatnik because you got owned in your crude attempts at statistical wizardry for propaganda purposes.

Why aren't you fighting for Russian Empire reborn, instead of shilling it on this board, again?

So fucking what? Why are you coming here again and again trying to push some sort of Russia favoring propaganda story poorly, and then shift the discussion back to troll quips once you lose?

Translation from Mardukski:
>REeee!!!!

You wanna go support Ukraine - go personally, with your ass on the line

You wanna intervene there - go ahead, if the Polish population is willing to go pinf with it and collectively skewer itself on a Russian sword and/or a Banderite terrorist dagger.

But don't make an universal virtue out of your personal insanity and your American bootlicking which you do only in the hope that they and the rest of NATO will fight your war for you.

 

[Marduk]

Translation from Mardukski:
>REeee!!!!

Translation from vatnik agent:
-Troll troll troll spam spam spam

You wanna go support Ukraine - go personally, with your ass on the line

You wanna go support Russia- go personally, with your ass on the line.

You wanna intervene there - go ahead, if the Polish population is willing to go pinf with it and collectively skewer itself on a Russian sword and/or a Banderite terrorist dagger.

You wanna shit on NATO and its position on Russian revanchism - go ahead, if the Bulgarian population is willing to go with it and collectively skewer itself on FSB useful idiocy, go leave EU and NATO, join CSTO and EEU, see how that works out for ya.

But don't make an universal virtue out of your personal insanity and your American bootlicking which you do only in the hope that they and the rest of NATO will fight your war for you.

And here comes the talk of "American bootlicking". Projection much? Go ahead and stick to licking the Russian boot you love so much.