Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

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According to research by the Russian-Language branch of the BBC, Confirmed russian deaths were 557 as of March 21st, not counting the breakaway forces and PMCs. Sorry Hearts of Iron 4 players, your 7000 Deaths are an illusion.

"Груз 200". Сколько российских военных уже погибло в Украине - BBC News Русская служба

The Russian Ministry of Defense has not reported on the losses of the Russian army in Ukraine for 18 days. Based on open sources, the Russian service of the BBC found out that the names of 557 dead Russian soldiers have already been confirmed.
On March 2 - for the first and only time - the Ministry of Defense reported on those killed in the war in Ukraine. At that time, the Ministry of Defense claimed, 498 soldiers were killed. Since then, there have been no new reports of losses from the Russian department.
Hundreds of dead
Ukraine at the moment estimates Russian losses at 15 thousand people - once the Ukrainian agency UNIAN clarified that this figure may include not only the dead, but also the wounded.
The American newspaper The New York Times, citing "conservative estimates" of American intelligence, called the figure of seven thousand dead. However, the publication indicates that the data is based on the analysis of the media, satellite images, photos of Russian soldiers and Russian equipment that came under fire, so the information may be inaccurate.
In Russia, every day there are new names of the dead and photos from the funeral. Most often, the names are called by the heads of Russian regions, local media or educational institutions where the deceased were previously trained. In several cases, the victims were reported by their close relatives.
The BBC, based only on reports containing specific information about the deceased, including the full name and rank, compiled a list of dead Russian soldiers. There are 557 people on this list.
Media reports citing sources about dozens, and sometimes hundreds, of the dead were not taken into account if they did not contain specific information about names and surnames. We also did not take into account reports of the death of people who are not career soldiers of Russia (that is, those who serve in the units of the self-proclaimed "DPR" and "LPR", as well as employees of the so-called "Wagner PMC").
AUTHOR OF THE PHOTO,NAIL FATTAKHOV/TASS
Photo caption,
Chelyabinsk. Relatives say goodbye to serviceman Konstantin Glushkov
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Although, for example, Radio Liberty (recognized in Russia as a foreign agent), citing sources, reported that at least 130 contractors from Dagestan died in Ukraine. In open sources, the BBC found information about 51 dead.
In addition to the 557 confirmed dead servicemen, the BBC has found reports of another 38 Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine, but there is no independent confirmation of these deaths at the moment.
Senator from Tuva Lyudmila Narusova said that at least 96 conscripts died in Ukraine: "As a result, four of the company of one hundred people remained alive," Narusova said during the discussion of amendments to the Criminal Code, which provide for up to 15 years in prison for spreading "fakes" about the armed forces.
The senator asked the Ministry of Defense to confirm this information, but did not receive a response. Russian authorities have long claimed that there are no Russian conscripts in Ukraine, but a few days later admitted that "several conscript soldiers" were still present in units of the Russian armed forces in Ukraine.
The first name of the Russian soldier who died in Ukraine was called by the head of Dagestan on February 26. In the first days of March, the heads of several other Russian regions reported the names of the dead soldiers. In mid-March, official reports about the funerals of soldiers and officers in Russian cities and villages began to appear by the dozens.
The BBC has sent a request to the Ministry of Defence asking for a death toll and is awaiting a response.
Special Forces and Officers with Orders
Among the confirmed dead in Russia is one major general, deputy commander of the 41st Army, 47-year-old Andrei Sukhovetsky. The Ministry of Defense of Russia clarifies that Sukhovetsky went from a platoon commander to the chief of staff of the Guards airborne assault unit.
Sukhovetsky participated in russia's military operation in Syria, was awarded two Orders of Courage, the Order of Military Merit and medals. Ukraine believes that four Russian generals have already died, but only Sukhovetsky's death has been officially confirmed.

The list of confirmed losses of the Russian army includes seven colonels: Viktor Isaykin from Mordovia, Sergei Porokhnya from Bashkiria, Dmitry Safronov from Tatarstan, Igor Nikolaev from the Ryazan region, Ruslan Rudnev from the Samara region, Alexander Zakharov from the Nizhny Novgorod region and Sergey Sukharev from the Kostroma region.
Also, the authorities of Sevastopol confirmed the death of a captain of the 1st rank (corresponding to the rank of colonel in the ground forces), deputy commander of the Black Sea Fleet, Andrei Paliy.
"In 1993, he refused to take the oath to Ukraine, remained loyal to Russia by leaving for the Northern Fleet," Sevastopol Governor Mikhail Razvozhaev wrote about him.
Also among the dead are at least nine lieutenant colonels, at least 20 majors and at least 70 junior officers.
The lists of officially recognized losses include dozens of paratroopers (from privates to the commander of the Kostroma Airborne Regiment) and at least 7 representatives of the GRU special forces.
Among the dead are several OMON officers from different regions of Russia, as well as fighters of elite special forces units of Rosgvardia. Including Sergeant Yevgeny Dudin, who, according to his mother, died during the storming of the Gostomel airport near Kiev.
AUTHOR OF THE PHOTO,FAMILY ARCHIVE FOR BBC
Photo caption,
Sergeant of Rosgvardia Yevgeny Dudin and his service dog were killed in the storming of the Gostomel airport, according to his mother Gulnara Valieva
According to the mother, the man served in the Dzerzhinsky operational division, and died on the second day of hostilities along with his service dog (although the death certificate indicates the date of February 27).
The organization of veterans of special forces "Brotherhood of Speckled Berets" reported one dead soldier of the detachment "Vityaz" - Sergeant Mikhail Belyakov from Penza. "Vityaz" is considered one of the strongest divisions of Russia.
On the sixth day of the war, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported the loss of almost 500 people, but what exactly was the further dynamics of losses, we do not know, notes former Deputy Commander-in-Chief of NATO Forces in Europe Richard Shireff:
"I think Putin has made two more classic mistakes. The first is that he underestimated his opponent. And second, he overestimated the capabilities and quality of his own army and his air force. Judging by the information we see, the Russians now do not have an overwhelming advantage in the air."
In the first month of the invasion of Iraq in 2003, the U.S. Army lost 139 men. The losses of the Russian army during the five days of the war with Georgia in 2008 amounted to 71 people. But General Shireff notes that it is difficult to compare the losses of the parties in various military conflicts, since they rarely take place in comparable conditions.
"If Russia wants to succeed in this campaign, it just needs to bring its infantry units into the cities and take them under control, and this will mean a significant increase in losses."
The general adds that usually for a successful offensive in cities, the attacking side must have six times more fighters than the defender.
"Army Elite"
AUTHOR OF THE PHOTO,ALEXANDER GARMAEV/TASS
Photo caption,
Salute at the funeral of one of the Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine
In addition, Russia lost at least eight military pilots (including pilots, navigators and flight mechanics of aircraft and helicopters) - these are piece specialists and the elite of any army. The training of each pilot takes years and costs millions of dollars.
"A first-class front-line aviation pilot is trained in an average of seven to eight years, and the cost of his training is about $ 3.4 million, and the training of a sniper pilot takes 10-12 years and costs $ 7.82 million," Russian Air Force Commander Alexander Zelin said in 2019.
On March 17, Sergei Volynets, a pilot and commander of the aviation unit, was buried in the Kuban. He participated in hostilities in Georgia and Syria, has awards.
On March 4, the authorities of the Chelyabinsk region reported the death of navigator Rostislav Eremenko. On the same day, the deputy of the Chelyabinsk City Duma, Vladimir Kornev, published a photo from the farewell ceremony. On the mourning collage under the image of the An-26 aircraft and the signature "The Last Flight" - 5 more pilots: Captain Anton Pimakhov, Senior Lieutenant Oleg Dolya, Senior Lieutenant Pavel Rusakov, Senior Sergeant Alexander Mizhurko and Sergeant Artem Tarasov. But there are no official reports of their deaths anywhere (the BBC did not take them into account in the calculations).
On March 16, in Syzran, they said goodbye to the military pilot, Lieutenant Sergei Konoplev - he left his wife and young daughter.
In the Rostov region, the death of 29-year-old pilot Vyacheslav Maklagin was reported - before being sent to Ukraine, he gained experience in combat flights in Syria. Posthumously, McLoughin — like many other military personnel who have died in recent weeks — was awarded the Order of Courage.
The authorities of Dagestan also reported the death in Ukraine of the captain, senior pilot Rabazan Radjabov. In the Samara region, the death of the regiment's commander, pilot Ruslan Rudnev, was confirmed. And in the Bryansk region, they said goodbye to Alexei Khasanov, a pilot with the rank of lieutenant colonel.
"I'm not ashamed, I'm proud"
AUTHOR OF THE PHOTO,ALEXANDER GARMAEV/TASS
Photo caption,
Some of the dead are buried in closed zinc coffins. So they said goodbye to Senior Lieutenant Tsyren Baldanov in the village of Ust-Kyakhta.
The youngest Russian soldier killed in Ukraine was 18-year-old Yegor Melnikov - he did not live one day before his 19th birthday. Melnikov died on the first day of the war - February 24. The governor of the region, Vasily Orlov, said that the deceased was posthumously presented with a state award for courage. The father of the deceased Eduard Melnikov wrote on Instagram: "This is my son Egor! Egor Eduardovich! I'm proud! I'm not ashamed." Now the post is not available, but the screenshot was made by the Regnum edition.
The Russian army also lost at least six 19-year-old men.
So, on March 10, Dmitry Belousov was buried. He was due to turn 20 in April. The man signed a contract to serve in the Marine Brigade less than two months before the start of hostilities in Ukraine. Prior to that, he studied at the university with a degree in "maintenance and repair of motor vehicles".
On March 14, in Oryol, they said goodbye to 19-year-old Egor Kanatnikov, and on March 18 in the Perm Territory, the death of 19-year-old Ivan Kolmogorov was announced.
From the BBC study, it can be concluded that the "cargo 200" came to at least 70 regions of Russia. In total, there are 83 subjects of the federation in the country, not counting the annexed Crimea and Sevastopol.

Servicemen from the Russian-annexed Crimea also took part in hostilities in Ukraine - the governor of Sevastopol, Mikhail Razvozhaev, repeatedly published information about the dead. So, on March 9, junior sergeant Alexei Sevostyanov and private Vladimir Nikolenko were buried in the city - both were born and raised in Sevastopol.
The regions of Russia have different attitudes to the publication of information about the dead. For example, in Dagestan and North Ossetia, 77 deaths have already been officially reported (in total). Representatives of district administrations personally come to each funeral.
In 15 Russian regions, there were no reports of military deaths from officials, but, for example, in one of these regions - in the Kemerovo region - the BBC was able to confirm reports of the funeral of 7 Russian soldiers who died in Ukraine.
In some regions of Russia, the media that reported the death of the Russian military began to remove publications. Sometimes it happens in a day or two, sometimes within an hour.
One of the Siberian journalists told the BBC: "At the level of the regional government, all publications were instructed not to publish data on losses in the special operation. There are cases of pressure on [relatives of the victims] of the local administration, saying that now there is no need to raise a fuss, then we will find a way to perpetuate their memory."
"Everything is very complicated"
AUTHOR OF THE PHOTO,STANISLAV KRASILNIKOV/TASS
Photo caption,
Lugansk region. Varvarovka village. Local residents at the temple.
At the moment, the name of one deceased man, whom relatives call a conscript, is known. This is a native of the village of Ozernoye, Saratov region, Maxim Khanygin.
Local media wrote that on March 5, Khanygin said goodbye in his native village. "Atkarskaya Gazeta" published photos from the farewell: on them the military carry a wreath and a portrait of Khanygin along with his Order of Courage, received posthumously. But the photographs show neither the grave nor the coffin.
Quite different pictures from the scene are published by Radio Azatlyk (recognized in Russia as a foreign agent): the photos show that a grave was dug in the cemetery, over which a polyethylene film was stretched. No one is buried in the grave.
Khanygin's grandmother told the publication that the family received a funeral on February 25, but she does not know when exactly the body will be brought. The article claims that Khanygin was a conscript.
The mother of another dead Russian soldier, Pavel Pozanen, told Bumaga that her son was illegally signed for contract service before being sent to Ukraine. "It's very complicated," Said Natalia Pozanen, without elaborating. "He was illegally signed."
Pavel Pozanen graduated from school in 2017, received a diploma of secondary vocational education in mid-2021, after which he went to serve.
Relatives and friends of the dead Russian military rarely publicly express their attitude to what is called a "special operation in Ukraine" in Russia.
AUTHOR OF THE PHOTO,EGOR ALEEV/TASS
The mother of the captured Russian soldier Valery Zaluzhny previously told the BBC that she "does not know why all this is needed at all": "I do not understand any war and any military actions."
Another mother of a captured soldier, Irina Ochirova, found her son on video with prisoners and went to the picket with a poster reading "No to War."
Gulnara Valieva, the mother of the deceased special forces officer Yevgeny Dudin, told the BBC that her son told her in late January that he was being sent "on a business trip for three months" - allegedly for exercises.
"I wondered: what are the teachings? And it slowly dawns on me, I ask him: "Zhen, so are you going to Ukraine?" He answers: "What Kind of Ukraine, mom? I'm going to Smolensk for exercises."
Valieva believes in two things: that Russia is "literally a day" ahead of the attack on its territory, and that Russia conducts only targeted shelling - strikes at military facilities. And that's what makes a woman angry.
"I already hate everyone. They say there are civilians there, our guys can't shoot at them. But they also shelled Zhenya from Kiev, from civilians. Why can they be shot and our guys can't? And now I say: so bomb the civilians, so at least our guys will at least somewhat remain alive."
On Sunday, the UN reported that at least 902 civilians were killed in Ukraine at the end of February alone, 75 of them children. Most civilians are killed by shells with a wide radius of destruction.
The real number of victims, the UN says, is much higher - until independent experts can calculate all the losses.
 
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According to research by the Russian-Language branch of the BBC, Russian deaths are confirmed at 557 as of March 21st. Sorry Hearts of Iron 4 players, your 7000 Deaths were an illusion.

"Груз 200". Сколько российских военных уже погибло в Украине - BBC News Русская служба
Funny how they hardly changed, just 59, over almost 3 weeks of fighting.
Let's be honest, Russia is so late and so unwilling to share own losses purely for reason of the potential domestic political impact of the conflict.
Of course a country that imprisons people merely for calling the war a war is unwilling to admit to war level losses. Losing thousands of soldiers in a special operation sounds quite strange after all. So they near-freeze the counter. After all, if anyone in Russia questions it, to prison they go. And others don't matter to them anyway.
 
Funny how they hardly changed, just 59, over almost 3 weeks of fighting.
Let's be honest, Russia is so late and so unwilling to share own losses purely for reason of the potential domestic political impact of the conflict.
Of course a country that imprisons people merely for calling the war a war is unwilling to admit to war level losses. Losing thousands of soldiers in a special operation sounds quite strange after all.
Ah, more copium-induced speculation and stroking of the good ole anti-Russian hate boner when you have nothing else on subject to contribute, I see.
As a mod, aren't you supposed to be keeping spam down and limited to the DonBass thread, not proliferate it?
 


Make piracy and highway robbery great again, should be Brandon's slogan. :D

This is bad but my inner historian is jumping with glee because inb4 sanctioned pirates become legal again when the first of these pirates start taking Russian oligarch's shit, the faster the other side gives out pirate loicsences to take Western oligarch's shit like Bill Gates and George Soros.
 
Ah, more copium-induced speculation and stroking of the good ole anti-Russian hate boner when you have nothing else on subject to contribute, I see.
As a mod, aren't you supposed to be keeping spam down and limited to the DonBass thread, not proliferate it?
I see, lacking any argument against the basic statistical improbability that Russian official figures hardly change over such a long time.
By the way you have precisely zero business trying to lecture me on forum policy.
 
This is bad but my inner historian is jumping with glee because inb4 sanctioned pirates become legal again when the first of these pirates start taking Russian oligarch's shit, the faster the other side gives out pirate loicsences to take Western oligarch's shit like Bill Gates and George Soros.
Russia actually had extensive River-based piracy, and the Kievan Rus were founded by Vikings, after all. :cool:;)
My concern is that this will escalate to commerce raiding and marks put on freighters, then we are all fucked.
 
Yup. Don't want that. We'd get an instant resource supply crisis.
Just imagine some of those weapons the USA is pouring into Ukraine and which the Russians are capturing en mass.

Now, imagine the middle eastern and African unrest the West-generated inflation, sanctions and food shortages will be causing the middle east.

Now, imagine a few Houthi or Egyptian rebels using some of that tech to attack ships going through the already heavily loaded Suez canal, with volumes, especially of LNG and oil tankers probably going up because of increased European demand.

Don't know about you, but having an imagination can be really, really painful sometimes.
 
Just imagine some of those weapons the USA is pouring into Ukraine and which the Russians are capturing en mass.

Now, imagine the middle eastern and African unrest the West-generated inflation, sanctions and food shortages will be causing the middle east.

Now, imagine a few Houthi or Egyptian rebels using some of that tech to attack ships going through the already heavily loaded Suez canal, with volumes, especially of LNG and oil tankers probably going up because of increased European demand.

Don't know about you, but having an imagination can be really, really painful sometimes.
Those arms are going to be passed around in the black market too and all the Nicholas Cage arms dealers will be making big profits as their newest and oldest customers use it to go kill someone in their own wars.
 
Those arms are going to be passed around in the black market too and all the Nicholas Cage arms dealers will be making big profits as their newest and oldest customers use it to go kill someone in their own wars.
yeah, and all the resulting refugees will be headed for Europe.
 
Did you even read what you quoted? It doesn't say that at all.

It says that of the many, many dead, they were able to ID 500.

Meanwhile, a Russian news source already said there were over 9000 (lol) before being quickly taken down.
 
I misstated my post, I meant to say there were indeed 557 identified deaths out of more. But I doubt it’s in the high thousands and there’s also the matter of Ukrainian losses.
Um, the Russians confirmed it by accident. Russian media announcing it:
Russian Defense Ministry says Russian troops complete defeat of Donbass nationalist battalion

Russian Defense Ministry says troops complete defeat of Ukrainian nationalist battalion Maria PAVLOVA a frame from the video.

The Russian Ministry of Defense announced that on Sunday, March 20, the Russian armed forces are completing the defeat of the Ukrainian nationalist formation "Donbass Battalion", spokesman for the Russian Ministry of Defense Igor Konashenkov said at a briefing. “Donbass battalion,” Konashenkov said, adding that during the day the Russian armed forces advanced 12 kilometers and, together with the DPR units, blocked the settlement of Sladkoe from three sides.

Two tanks, three BMP, six field artillery pieces and mortars, as well as about 60 militants of the Ukrainian nationalist formation. “Now there is a battle for the capture of the settlements of Sladkoe, Novoukrainka and Shakhtarskoe with the remnants of militants and units of the 54th separate mechanized brigade of Ukrainian troops,” Konashenkov said. According to the official representative of the Ministry of Defense, on Sunday, March 20, 89 Ukrainian military facilities were hit, including command posts, installations of multiple launch rocket systems, artillery weapons, weapons and ammunition depots, and places where military equipment was concentrated, seven Ukrainian drones were shot down in the air.

According to preliminary estimates of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, from the beginning of the special military operation in Ukraine to March 20, the RF Armed Forces have lost 96 aircraft, 118 helicopters and 14.7 thousand military personnel. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation refutes the information of the Ukrainian General Staff about the alleged large-scale losses of the RF Armed Forces in Ukraine. According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, during the special operation in Ukraine, the Russian Armed Forces lost 9861 people killed, 16153 people were injured. Earlier it was reported that during a special operation in Ukraine, the captain of the 1st rank of the deputy commander of the Black Sea Fleet Andrei Paly was killed. On Sunday, March 20, the Russian Defense Ministry announced that the Foreign Mercenaries Training Center had been destroyed in the Zhytomyr region.

The kp.ru website collects online the latest news about the Russian military special operation in Ukraine on March 20, 2022. Follow the events with us.
That was allegedly a hack.
Yeah, I doubt it. The story doesn't read at all like a hack. That's the bullshit explanation to cover a screw up. Like that's also the excuse used when someone posts nudes on twitter: "it wuz a hack!! FOre Realz!"

Look, it's a pretty realistic number. The Russians have been incompetent fuckups throughout the war for the same reason the Saudi's have been incompetent fuckups vs Yemen: you can't afford to have a capable and solid military when the dictator isn't a military leader. That's a recipe for a coup. So instead have a badly led military with a bunch of political appointees, then during a war you fix it out of expedience, followed by removing everyone competent (read: threatening as they inspire loyalty in their men) afterwards.

Look, they have a ton of conscripts. They are going to have a lot of deaths. It doesn't matter for the war though, they still will probably win, it just will be a slow attrition victory. The Russian army has been exposed as the incompetent force it is though, and that will last.
 
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